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Maviarab: LOL

I called someone out for bashing the GoG version on the steam forums for NWN EE...

You have been banned from all Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition discussions until 4 Apr @ 5:03pm.
You were banned by a Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition developer.
Reason: "Flaming is not allowed here."

Oh well...Guess Julius is still an ass....
You left something out.

"Maviarab (Banned) 1 hour ago
Weed, you're an idiot...and probably a Crapdog employee. GoG version works flawlessly. Not the games fault you're an idiot and don't know what you're doing."
http://steamcommunity.com/app/704450/discussions/0/1697168437881881986/#c1697168437884515970

It might be that you called someone an idiot twice that got you banned for flaming. Just guessing.
Post edited March 28, 2018 by ApexProcyon
Meh...say it how I see it. Looks like a duck etc etc :P
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Nightblair: Somehow it's even worse now. You know that now when someone says that he can't believe a word said by Beamdog representatives, he has a proof why.

I'm so glad that I found the 4in1 original DVDs in the local market.
The originals were not DVDs. The original Baldur's Gate was a 7 CD pack, I still remember unfolding it.
Can't recall how many Cds BGII was but it certainly wasn't on DVD either.

I realise this thread is about something else but I simply couldn't ignore this mistake
They were re-released on DVDs later on. Though, there were some minor differences between both versions if I remember correctly.

So, for the sake of argument the DVDs are the originals when we compare them to the disgrace that is EE.
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TheDyingScotsman: The originals were not DVDs. The original Baldur's Gate was a 7 CD pack, I still remember unfolding it.
Can't recall how many Cds BGII was but it certainly wasn't on DVD either.

I realise this thread is about something else but I simply couldn't ignore this mistake
By original I meant not EE. Of course I would not shell exorbitant amount of money on some ebay reseller and then pay $30 just to ship it here to get some holy grail original CDs. If they are on DVDs so much better for me, as I don't have to juggle so many disks.
Post edited April 20, 2018 by Nightblair
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Oncogene27: So, any (official) word on whether or not the original NWN will be bundled with the EE eventually?
Wow I hadn't even considered that yet... But yeah it probably will. I am so happy I have the original (physical and GOG) versions of all the games they're raping.
Might want to make sure you have Temple of Elemental Evil and NWN2 as well. I suspect those two might be the next victim of Beamdog after they are done messing up NWN1.
I just want to add that I'm perfectly happy with the games? I just played IWD:EE for a second time. Runs perfectly fine, has some gimmicks, doesn't make do hours of extra modding, and cost me about 5£ (and the other games are on sale all the time as well). I really don't understand where all the hatred is coming from regarding "ruining" these games.
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enfg: I just want to add that I'm perfectly happy with the games? I just played IWD:EE for a second time. Runs perfectly fine, has some gimmicks, doesn't make do hours of extra modding, and cost me about 5£ (and the other games are on sale all the time as well). I really don't understand where all the hatred is coming from regarding "ruining" these games.
The "Hate" comes because of Baldur's Gate series, not IWD. I am pretty sure almost everyone agrees IWD:EE was a nice touch. I personally loved it as aswell. However, BG:EEs have terrible, unforgivable bugs, changes and alterations that were not present in the original games.

EDIT: And also because the originals were removed from the store, which were half the price of EEs. Removal of such classics from the shelves of GOG, which stands for Good OLD Games, did not bode well for the community. I am one of them. Now you have to pay double to get those games as an EXTRA with EEs. I personally believe this is an insult to their legacy.
Post edited July 04, 2018 by Engerek01
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Engerek01: BG:EEs have terrible, unforgivable bugs, changes and alterations that were not present in the original games.
It's not even just that. Beamdog disregarded the original's game design with their "enhancements", butchered the interface and cutscenes and introduced fanfic-level additional content into a pretty well-written game.

The game's engine was built for a 640*480 resolution. That's really outdated, yes. But if you scale the picture back, you lose the sense of scope that was a part of the game design, not just a technical limitation. And the interface gets out of intended proportions too. That changes the perspective on the game in more than one way. The solution should have been art upscaling, not pulling the camera away.

Speaking of the interface, Beamdog got rid of a lot of decorative elements in it. Nice touches like the stylized journal, the candle images for "spell memorization" screens, all the loading screens' art... The latter was often tied to the plot, btw, or contained game tips. A lot of lovingly painted details that were just ripped out for no good reason. And the old cutscenes, being the old CG they are, still have better screenplay than their flash remakes in EE.

And if you compare, say, Neera's dialogue with Jaheira's, Minsc's, or ANY other original NPC - you will see a significant drop in quality. That she features a cool class (wild mage) is great, but she's a sad piece of cardboard as a character.


Oh, and when it comes to their add-on, SoD, they managed to:
- rob Jaheira of her voice (because she was a "bad stereotype", and it's 20**!),
- make Minsc utter a political jab,
- introduce a trans character into a world where the first ogre you meet has a magic girdle that changes the wearer's sex permanently...
- Aaand completely twist one of the central characters in the whole series - Imoen - with their piss-poor writing.

Beamdog did ruin the franchise, screw them.
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Symfaer: Speaking of the interface, Beamdog got rid of a lot of decorative elements in it. Nice touches like the stylized journal, the candle images for "spell memorization" screens, all the loading screens' art... The latter was often tied to the plot, btw, or contained game tips. A lot of lovingly painted details that were just ripped out for no good reason.
Oh, there was reason alright, or should I say there was reason it wasn't replaced by something better... "enhanced": Beamdog's art department are just not up to the task. Anybody with an eye for quality can see that in everything they've done.
Post edited July 21, 2018 by Hickory
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enfg: I just want to add that I'm perfectly happy with the games? I just played IWD:EE for a second time. Runs perfectly fine, has some gimmicks, doesn't make do hours of extra modding, and cost me about 5£ (and the other games are on sale all the time as well). I really don't understand where all the hatred is coming from regarding "ruining" these games.
Short version, Beamdog tried to enhance some classics rather hamfistedly and in a way that didn't really follow the original style and vision.. When you take over someone else's old masterpiece, you can't just ram new ideas into them without expecting some pushback from fans of the original.

Can you imagine the Maiden's Rime of the Ancient Mariner played on keyboard, synth, and banjo, with updated "modern" lyrics written and performed by Beyonce and Nicki Minaj? And then the people behind that travesty come out and suggest that you should be appreciative of their efforts, their version is now totally the official version, and they'll now look at what other parts of the Iron Maiden catalog they can "update".

Cue the Doom-guy death cry.

So that's a bit of a problem. Frankly, Beamdog probably would have been fine if they'd went about the job with a fine brush rather than a hammer and chisel combo, restoring carefully rather than expecting to "improve", and maybe in the process learn something about how to make a game that stands the test of time.

Even something simple, such as adding their own content, is very hard to do unless you understand the original. You have got to use the same brush strokes or the added bits will feel alien. Going back to my music analogy, can you imagine listening to an old Iron Maiden album, and then suddenly hearing bits of Micki Minaj added wherever someone felt the original songs were boring? Maybe having an additional "bonus" song that is all Beyonce and banjo?

I don't really blame Beamdog for trying to make some good bucks out of these old classics, and I think it could have been a stellar learning experience for them if they'd tried to use it as such, but it just feels like they squandered that opportunity badly, disrespecting the classics they were restoring (and the fans of said classics) a bit in the process.

That all said, I can totally understand why they'd make the original versions bundle up with the EE rather than sell them seperately. That's just marketing. Can't sell the old games for 15-20 bucks, since they're so old, but they can sell EE. So try to make people buy the EE instead. That's basic capitalism, hardly even slimy or worth getting agitated over and certainly not something raging against Beamdog for.

The good thing is, those original versions are still worth that price. Great games, even 20 years later.
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enfg: I just want to add that I'm perfectly happy with the games? I just played IWD:EE for a second time. Runs perfectly fine, has some gimmicks, doesn't make do hours of extra modding, and cost me about 5£ (and the other games are on sale all the time as well). I really don't understand where all the hatred is coming from regarding "ruining" these games.
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Arachnarok_Rider: Short version, Beamdog tried to enhance some classics rather hamfistedly and in a way that didn't really follow the original style and vision.. When you take over someone else's old masterpiece, you can't just ram new ideas into them without expecting some pushback from fans of the original.

Can you imagine the Maiden's Rime of the Ancient Mariner played on keyboard, synth, and banjo, with updated "modern" lyrics written and performed by Beyonce and Nicki Minaj? And then the people behind that travesty come out and suggest that you should be appreciative of their efforts, their version is now totally the official version, and they'll now look at what other parts of the Iron Maiden catalog they can "update".

Cue the Doom-guy death cry.

So that's a bit of a problem. Frankly, Beamdog probably would have been fine if they'd went about the job with a fine brush rather than a hammer and chisel combo, restoring carefully rather than expecting to "improve", and maybe in the process learn something about how to make a game that stands the test of time.

Even something simple, such as adding their own content, is very hard to do unless you understand the original. You have got to use the same brush strokes or the added bits will feel alien. Going back to my music analogy, can you imagine listening to an old Iron Maiden album, and then suddenly hearing bits of Micki Minaj added wherever someone felt the original songs were boring? Maybe having an additional "bonus" song that is all Beyonce and banjo?

I don't really blame Beamdog for trying to make some good bucks out of these old classics, and I think it could have been a stellar learning experience for them if they'd tried to use it as such, but it just feels like they squandered that opportunity badly, disrespecting the classics they were restoring (and the fans of said classics) a bit in the process.

That all said, I can totally understand why they'd make the original versions bundle up with the EE rather than sell them seperately. That's just marketing. Can't sell the old games for 15-20 bucks, since they're so old, but they can sell EE. So try to make people buy the EE instead. That's basic capitalism, hardly even slimy or worth getting agitated over and certainly not something raging against Beamdog for.

The good thing is, those original versions are still worth that price. Great games, even 20 years later.
The classic versions were outselling the EE version when they bundled them.
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Symfaer: - rob Jaheira of her voice (because she was a "bad stereotype", and it's 20**!)
Pretty certain Heidi Shannon is dead. They recast the character ala Safana, but the voice actress couldn't do the character's accent properly so they decided to upset the least amount of people by keeping her silent.
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pseudonymous: Pretty certain Heidi Shannon is dead.
That would explain this part of my "complaint". Are you sure though? I googled her & couldn't find a confirmation. Might be out of voice acting business, however, with a similar result for BG:EE.