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Beamdog: We would like to apologize for recent miscommunications regarding the removal of the predecessor products to our Enhanced Edition titles from sale on GOG.

The decision to take Baldur’s Gate, Baldur’s Gate II, Icewind Dale, and most recently, Planescape: Torment from sale on GOG and bundle them with the Beamdog Enhanced Edition titles was a joint decision between the Beamdog and GOG leadership teams, just as it was when the GOG Definitive Edition Bundles were first announced.

At no point was it our intention to appear as if we were shifting the weight of this decision to GOG. Again, we apologize for creating this perception and hope to do a better job of communicating with the GOG community in the future.

We believe that bundling the old titles alongside their newer Enhanced Editions creates a value unique to GOG and allows for owners to enjoy the option of choosing to play the game as it was on release or the versions we have made available.

The team at Beamdog is working to better communicate internally and with members of the community. We appreciate the feedback we’ve received so far and look forward to hearing more from GOG fans.

Sincerely,
The Beamdog Team
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4fygWLjszA
Link has explicit language.
Post edited July 15, 2017 by jsidhu762
I'm glad that I contacted Beamdog about the bundling, because now I can compare their customer support response with their statement, especially those bits:

"At no point was it our intention to appear as if we were shifting the weight of this decision to GOG. Again, we apologize for creating this perception and hope to do a better job of communicating with the GOG community in the future." - the statement.

"That being said, GOG brought the idea to our attention and over a year ago Cameron decided that it was a positive choice, I am sorry you are negative towards this, but I want you to know you are supporting the people who make those decisions, and blaming the ones who don't." - customer support.

These guys are unbelieveable, how could anyone with their clear mind support them and their crusade of ruining the classic games?
Attachments:
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Post edited July 16, 2017 by Tuthrick
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Tuthrick: I'm glad that I contacted Beamdog about the bundling, because now I can compare their customer support response with their statement, especially those bits:

"At no point was it our intention to appear as if we were shifting the weight of this decision to GOG. Again, we apologize for creating this perception and hope to do a better job of communicating with the GOG community in the future." - the statement.

"That being said, GOG brought the idea to our attention and over a year ago Cameron decided that it was a positive choice, I am sorry you are negative towards this, but I want you to know you are supporting the people who make those decisions, and blaming the ones who don't." - customer support.

These guys are unbelieveable, how could anyone with their clear mind support them and their crusade of ruining the classic games?
http://imgh.us/Julius_2.png This is what they said a year ago. Wasn't GoG then, it was WOTC. They are shifting the blame left and right. I wouldn't be surprised if they start blaming GamerGate for the bundling next.
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plan99: I'm not only trying to encourage others to "get out there and give 'em hell"[...]
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Dalthnock: Forgive me if this seems pedantic, but I advise anyone voicing their complaints to be as polite & neutral as possible.

Modern day discourse must be extremely objective, literal & clear, because a certain segment of the population has managed to suck all form of hyperbole out of generic conversations.

If you do not measure your words carefully, they WILL latch on to any detail, however minute and/or insignificant & turn it against you. They have learned this technique & they use it repeatedly.

We all know what "giving them hell" means, but let's not forget their professional victim mentality. This wording is easily corruptible into harassment.

I'm truly sorry for being so dry, but do not forget what happened the last time someone mentioned a transsexual character. We must learn & defeat them by their own rules. It's the only way to beat an ideology.
Thank you, yes, that's why I put it in quotes (I have no problem if you think that wasn't enough) and why I've put up my emails to GOG and Hasbro as examples. In my thread about getting the classics unbundled, I asked people to be polite when writing to these companies. It's just difficult to get people interested without having a little fun. :)
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plan99: I was trying to encourage people to DO something positive and constructive. Negativity is NOT going to help, here.

Let me put it this way (to you and everyone). The classics have been imprisoned and it's your task to free them... ;)
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Stig79: Well I don't think people should be cheerful about being lied to by a company that has "imprisoned" some of the best rpgs ever made :)

In that infamous Kotaku interview the Beamdog CEO says that their plan is to "improve" more and more classics like this. and then move on to their own product. Their end goal is, and always has been, Baldur's Gate 3. Keep that in mind. They are going to make a sequel to a series that pretty much has a perfect ending. Probably the most un-needed sequel out there.
Lol, nah, I'm not saying be "cheerful", exactly (maybe cheerful about freeing the classics), but that people are more willing to work with you on achieving a goal if you have a positive attitude about achieving it and give them positive ideas on what they can do to help. Beamdog would like nothing better than splitting us up, so that we accomplish nothing (something their lies are trying to do) - don't fall for it. If we all get together, encourage each other and do everything we can, we stand a much better chance - I think Beamdog fears that.

As for BG3 (or SoD for that matter), I don't really care - that would just serve to split my efforts towards my goal in half. My goal is to get the classics restored to their proper place on the store. BG3 and SoD have no classics to restore, I have no interest in them and don't consider them part of the series (much like the "prequels" to Star Wars - I just call them "The Prequels"). If we can get *these* classics restored, now, Beamdog will have a more difficult time doing the same to other games in the future.

To paraphrase an old quote, "Evil prevails when good men do nothing". Stay calm, I'm not saying you're doing nothing. :) I'm taking it a step further and saying what I said above. Get the classics restored as soon as we can and Beamdog will find it harder to do the same in the future. Conversely, the longer Beamdog gets away with it, the harder it'll be to stop, let alone turn it back.
Post edited July 16, 2017 by plan99
I don't think I can bear any more from Beamdog.

The at best, questionable liberties taken with a beloved franchise.

The repeated inconsistent and contradicting blame shifting, one day it's WotC's fault the next it's GOG's, now it's Beamdog and GOG, supposedly. Let's be clear here all GOG does it allow or disallow something to be sold on their market, the product owners choose the product/package (except of course in instances where CD Projekt or affiliate are for example the publisher etc).

This so called "joint decision between the Beamdog and GOG" likely amounts to Beamdog saying they would like to turn it into a bundle and GOG replying along the lines of "we only sell the products you choose to have on the marketplace, such things are up to the product owners".

I would love to be proven wrong, infact I implore, even beg, Beamdog to prove otherwise by simply releasing said correspondence which would simply be some overdue transparency. Beamdog's track record makes their word questionable at best so it's about time they back it up with some simple proof. Though I suspect it would be a cold day in hell before that happens because there likely is no corroborating proof and by their track record they are more likely to deflect or even play it off as an attack/victim situation.

Now, for me at least, it's gotten to the point I think GOG should make a statement. It's all well and good to be professional by not naming other companies involved in such situations (an attribute Beamdog clearly lacks) and keeping a professional business relationship with others, though this is well past the point of GOG simply being able keep their name out of it holding their hands up in silence.

This is happening on the GOG marketplace, GOG's name has been dragged into it, again.

Perhaps GOG is concerned Beamdog will remove games should they make any such statement, even if it doesn't mention Beamdog or this exact situation while simply clearing up exactly GOG's role in games being merged into bundles. Or if this has been a unique situation in which they have had a hand they should simply clear the air and say so.

When it comes to the risk of Beamdog pulling their games, frankly I'd rather have an open and honest GOG who's motives and agenda I know and understand, as opposed to a GOG that has question marks thrown onto the brand even if it's from a developer who can't keep their story straight. Even if it means a few games are no longer available for sale.

It doesn't take much to realise that many buy games through GOG because it's GOG, that's not meant in a blind zealous faith. way. It's also not because it's simply DRM free, most games on GOG that are also on Steam are DRM free there also (you can zip them up and extract them later elsewhere if you wish). People support GOG because they know GOG and trust GOG, because GOG took a stand on the nonsense from developers and publishers mistreating customers in a number of ways.

So GOG should be more careful about allowing the perception of them to be blemished because it's likely the biggest thing they have going for them.
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Beamdog: We believe that bundling the old titles alongside their newer Enhanced Editions creates a value unique to GOG and allows for owners to enjoy the option of choosing to play the game as it was on release or the versions we have made available.
Consumers want the option not to be coerced into paying for Beamdog mods in which they are not interested. Beamdog bundles result in such coercion.

If Beamdog really wants to give consumers value & choice, then Beamdog will sell its mods exclusively as standalone products. And Beamdog will also ensure that the original games which they've modded will stay on the market, in their original form, as their own standalone products which are kept separate from Beamdog-modded versions.

That way consumers who want to buy Beamdog mods will do so, and those who do not want Beamdog mods will no longer be coerced into buying them just because they are forced to do so in order to get the products that they really want - the original, unmodded-by-Beamdog games.

But I expect that Beamdog surely has already understood everything I've said in this post long before I've said it. I expect that Beamdog is happy to gain sales of their mods via coercion, because money has the same value whether it is collected through shady means or through ethical means.
Post edited July 18, 2017 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
They should switch the bundling around. Pay for the classics and you get the EEs for free.
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Beamdog: We believe that bundling the old titles alongside their newer Enhanced Editions creates a value unique to GOG and allows for owners to enjoy the option of choosing to play the game as it was on release or the versions we have made available.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Consumers want the option not to be coerced into paying for Beamdog mods in which they are not interested. Beamdog bundles result in such coercion.

If Beamdog really wants to give consumers value & choice, then Beamdog will sell its mods exclusively as standalone products. And Beamdog will also ensure that the original games which they've modded will stay on the market, in their original form, as their own standalone products which are kept separate from Beamdog-modded versions.

That way consumers who want to buy Beamdog mods will do so, and those who do not want Beamdog mods will no longer be coerced into buying them just because they are forced to do so in order to get the products that they really want - the original, unmodded-by-Beamdog games.

But I expect that Beamdog surely has already understood everything I've said in this post long before I've said it. I expect that Beamdog is happy to gain sales of their mods via coercion, because money has the same value whether it is collected through shady means or through ethical means.
Wow, clearly I'm walking into a series with a ton of things going on I have no idea of the entire outcomes of.. I was considering grabbing them for this sale, but, after some forum skiming, not so sure. However, I had to stop and say, your etiquette here was amazing, and if only I could convey words so well, I'd probably be doing much better in life.. XD Hope this situation works out, though, really..
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Consumers want the option not to be coerced into paying for Beamdog mods in which they are not interested. Beamdog bundles result in such coercion.

If Beamdog really wants to give consumers value & choice, then Beamdog will sell its mods exclusively as standalone products. And Beamdog will also ensure that the original games which they've modded will stay on the market, in their original form, as their own standalone products which are kept separate from Beamdog-modded versions.

That way consumers who want to buy Beamdog mods will do so, and those who do not want Beamdog mods will no longer be coerced into buying them just because they are forced to do so in order to get the products that they really want - the original, unmodded-by-Beamdog games.

But I expect that Beamdog surely has already understood everything I've said in this post long before I've said it. I expect that Beamdog is happy to gain sales of their mods via coercion, because money has the same value whether it is collected through shady means or through ethical means.
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Tracido: Wow, clearly I'm walking into a series with a ton of things going on I have no idea of the entire outcomes of.. I was considering grabbing them for this sale, but, after some forum skiming, not so sure. However, I had to stop and say, your etiquette here was amazing, and if only I could convey words so well, I'd probably be doing much better in life.. XD Hope this situation works out, though, really..
Now just to make sure that I understood:
If I buy an EE I get the old version, too? Because the store pages do not seem to state anything about that.
Is it so for all of the EEs or only a part of them?
If I get both old and new, then it's fine for me.
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Tracido: Wow, clearly I'm walking into a series with a ton of things going on I have no idea of the entire outcomes of.. I was considering grabbing them for this sale, but, after some forum skiming, not so sure. However, I had to stop and say, your etiquette here was amazing, and if only I could convey words so well, I'd probably be doing much better in life.. XD Hope this situation works out, though, really..
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iwontdance: Now just to make sure that I understood:
If I buy an EE I get the old version, too? Because the store pages do not seem to state anything about that.
Is it so for all of the EEs or only a part of them?
If I get both old and new, then it's fine for me.
Yup. When you buy the EEs you get a key for the originals.
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iwontdance: Now just to make sure that I understood:
If I buy an EE I get the old version, too? Because the store pages do not seem to state anything about that.
Is it so for all of the EEs or only a part of them?
If I get both old and new, then it's fine for me.
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jsidhu762: Yup. When you buy the EEs you get a key for the originals.
Not for PS:T. You just get a direct download under the EE version for the classic when you buy that one. AND you don't get the soundtrack for PS:T. Which was previously included with the Classic version. Soundtrack is sold separately now, for more than what the classic game with the soundtrack used to cost.
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jsidhu762: Yup. When you buy the EEs you get a key for the originals.
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Stig79: Not for PS:T. You just get a direct download under the EE version for the classic when you buy that one. AND you don't get the soundtrack for PS:T. Which was previously included with the Classic version. Soundtrack is sold separately now, for more than what the classic game with the soundtrack used to cost.
OK. Thanks. I happen to have Classic PS:T in my library, so that is not my concern. Not that I would find the time to play through it again so soon, anyway.
But I might give the BGs a try.
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jsidhu762: Yup. When you buy the EEs you get a key for the originals.
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Stig79: Not for PS:T. You just get a direct download under the EE version for the classic when you buy that one. AND you don't get the soundtrack for PS:T. Which was previously included with the Classic version. Soundtrack is sold separately now, for more than what the classic game with the soundtrack used to cost.
Sorry, I haven't bought PS:T. In fact I forgot about it entirely until I saw this post.
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Stig79: Not for PS:T. You just get a direct download under the EE version for the classic when you buy that one. AND you don't get the soundtrack for PS:T. Which was previously included with the Classic version. Soundtrack is sold separately now, for more than what the classic game with the soundtrack used to cost.
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jsidhu762: Sorry, I haven't bought PS:T. In fact I forgot about it entirely until I saw this post.
You are right about the rest though. You get a code for the classics when you buy those.
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jsidhu762: Yup. When you buy the EEs you get a key for the originals.
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Stig79: Not for PS:T. You just get a direct download under the EE version for the classic when you buy that one. AND you don't get the soundtrack for PS:T. Which was previously included with the Classic version. Soundtrack is sold separately now, for more than what the classic game with the soundtrack used to cost.
Yeah, I was noticing that, too, lots of things outside of these I was considering have all these versions now, and I thankfully already have the older versions, so, I'm feeling a bit odd, and I may just wait for another, better sale.. Thanks for all the information, though.
Post edited July 23, 2017 by Tracido