Thanks for that bit of info. I will wait to see where things will be after Galaxy Patch and if anything, I will buy a commercial copy, but actually use the DRM free version instead.

On the other hand, in today's abundance of games, it's not really difficult for me to just move on.

If they can use nasty DRM and people will still buy their games, why would they stop?

Just don't buy the game at all unless it gets a DRM-free release - the more people that refuse to put up with this crap the better the chances are of getting companies to stop using it (and the better the chances are of getting GOG releases).

Whilst it doesn't surprise me that the nooblets claimed DRM free users are pirates, I didn't see that post.
Guess because I already had blurry vision from facepalming a tad too much ;)

To be fair, I have no doubt a lot of pirates are being very loudmouthed about Denuvo because it really does affect them more than any DRM has in the last decade or so.

The Reddit thread in /r/games on this had a lot of pro/neutral denuvo people surprisingly.

There is nothing to spoil. Only silence and emptiness. :)

And they reached it sales goals? And who told you that? You saw docs with inner plans of the company, what they was hoping for?

They wasn't planned as AAA titles anyway and they had very big problems: Arcanum - many bugs, some of them preventing player from finishing game. Planescape: Torment - big part of the game wasn't finished and they had to cut it out. For example, romances with Anna or Fall from Grace (there are files with voiced dialogue in the game foles for romance conversations) and corresponding endings. System Shock 2 was considered boring by the many at the moment of release.

Sure, for example is an AI: player can jump right in front of an enemy and enemy reaction will be "Huh?" and standing there for many seconds. You can even kill someone right next to another person and they won't even notice it. Stellar gameplay! :)

Oh, i love that, when someone understand that gameplay is mediocre at most, they start to say: the game is good only at the hardest difficulty, all other is not what it should be. So, in other words, developers optimized gameplay on the hardest and all others was put in the last seconds just to be there.

And to see the game at its best i should start grinding every bossfight until i manage to do it without any mistakes from my side for a 10-20 times without my keyboard going in the window.

I start to understand what modern players call Stellar Gameplay. :)

Oh, its so good to thins that a majority is supporting your point of view. But tell me, why do you think that it's the majority opinion? Metacritic or Steam ratings? There are some ways to affect them if you have enough money: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/09/valve-steam-cheating-review-scores-devs/

And what about all those videos on youtube? They are minority? But that doesn't make problems go away, even if that is true. :)

Oh, you already counted all the negative reports, compared it's quantity with amount of positive reports, and now absolutely sure that "dislike these games based on reports of absolute minority of players"? Sorry, but i doubt that you counted. And if you do, did you counted it right? :)

I'll... Just reply to the bits which aren't tinfoil hat insane.

Yeah, those bugs were actually fixed. You would of course know this if you played it.

Where did I say any of those things? The game's stellar on lower difficulties too, it just gets a tad repetitive. You would of course know this if you played it.

No, highest difficulty really isn't that punishing. You would of course know this if you played it.

I guess they also hire people to come to this very discussion forum, praising the game. I like the game, I am therefore logically hired by Valve or Bethesda or whoever, right?

Oh I did read the automated counters on the websites off which you parrot "your own" opinion.

Look, this is insane. I get it, you want to hate the games - but arguing that they're universally bad because everybody but people disliking them lie, because their sales reports are manipulated et cetera et cetera is just utterly crazy - especially seeing latest release by Bethesda, Skyrim Special Edition, is actually getting reviewed negatively (surely this won't happen since reviews are rigged?) Sure, don't play them. But don't use arguments of other people you have haphazardly googled as your own.

Do they even sell decent amounts of units anymore? I mean by only releasing on steam, while a very, very big part its still just a part and not the whole pc gaming community regardless of how much they wish it to be; and if even there ppl cancelling because Denuvo they reach like what? Two third? Half? the potential audience? For what? Giving pirates something else to do in their spare time (that most likely does not involving buying a game)? Preventing Gamestop a resale so the poor guy only buying 2nd hand just gets something else? Sounds like full of win to me :P

Sure, don't have any arguments - declare that this is just insanity. :) Hmmm, maybe i should start calling names too? :)

Tried a little from a friend of mine's PC. :) The game was still bad. :)

I don't know who you are - the is a anonymous forum after all. :)

Why so sure that we visited same sites? There are lot of them. :)

No, you don't. I don't hate games - they don't hold that much place in my life (i have friends, girlfriend, ex-wife and work after all :) ) to spend so strong emotions on them.

Really? And what you know about these business, boy? :) And why is some developers demand to, for example, remove their game sales from SteamSpy? Or, why Steam had to make moves against developers in terms of reviews, rating cheating and fake screenshots? Oh, and faking of graphics on E3 with a later downgrade at release? Of course, developers and Steam doing all this stuff just for fun and get no profit from, there is no such problems at all. :)

Well, article about Steam starting to make moves against the fare reviews was a September this year, Skyrim Special Edition was released month later. So, we might get a real picture for a few month until developers find another workaround. :)

Sorry, but i don't need your permission to do that. :)

I prefer to learn on other's mistakes. :) BTW, i tried a few of discussed games from a PC of a friend of mine, so it is not completely arguments of other people. I wrote about it a few post ago few times. :)

My Gog, do you have to reply to every single sentence?
Also, congrats for joining the few crazy people on this forum..

They do, actually. If they didn't, developers would not bother with PC market at all, sadly.

Oh yes, I'm quite glad you mentioned SteamSpy, kid. Because, as you can see for yourself, new DOOM is comparable in popularity with some of the latest Call of Duty releases and that's still a profitable franchise. But surely, those numbers don't agree with you, so they're surely fabricated?

Last time I checked, negatively reviewed AAA games existed even before that. Or is that only ratings which happen to agree with your stance are valid and those which don't aren't?

Which is why you didn't post a single thought of your own.

Not every, i passed many of them. :)

Since when discussing is considered crazy? :)

Bait worked... :) When Voksi released his bypass, amount of sold DOOM copies skyrocketed in SteamSpy. Of course, this is because all of them decided to buy game, not use bypass and SteamSpy managed to separate pirates from buyers (it's not :) ).

Sure, then Steam is just bored and got nothing to do, so they decided to fight with fake reviews, ratings and screenshots just for fun.

I did. :)

In other words: Of course the numbers are fabricated when they don't agree with you. What a shock that is. I assume Mad Max has around 1.100.000 copies registered for the very same reason.

You've got No Man's Sky to blame for that - of course, you'd know that if you understood the industry as much as you claim to, boyo.

Mad Max also had a bypass. Had they removed pirated registrations since then?

They was the last drop in the bucket because all flaws of the system was made visible very clearly. When others did it, they did it more carefully.

Anyway, let's end this - discussion became boring. I wrote:

Never bought (or even pirated) any game with Denuvo because all of them had quite low quality gameplay. At some moment there were even idea: Denuvo is for only mediocre games because if player will try them first from pirated version - he will never buy this game from store. Because all of them is quite bad.

And:

Never bought (or even pirated) any game with Denuvo, but played for a little because a friend of mine bought them and wanted my opinion of them. So, he let me play this games and what can i say - it's very bad.

So, in the end i said, that in my opinion this game are bad. But some people there take that as an personal insult that i have different taste in games than them. And they started to say that:

- majority support them, i'm a minority (who's decided that?) :)
- rating systems is normal despite flaws acknowledged by their creators, who had to take moves against itheir flaws
- there is no problems in that games, only a small ones not worthy of mention

And all this to prove me: their taste in games is better than mine. XD That was hilarious! Imagine, that someone will start to say: you hate that food, but it is very good! You should eat that! You tried and didn't liked it? That you haven't eated as much as we - eat again and you will like it! Majority is likes this food so it is good - you should eat it too! :) You still don't like it and arguing with us? Then you don't understand anything in the food! XD

I supported discussion to look if there is new arguments - no, same as an few years ago.

That was fun, but now it gets boring, so i close this discussion from my side. :)

Yes, naturally. It's funny how reality seems to only ever agree with you.

Uh-huh. Incidentally, you do know how the updates to Steam user review policy work, right? And that you can actually swap between old and new style of rating? And... Well, that ratings for most of the games we pointed out as "good" are great in either case? Anyway..

And I have pointed out, multiple times, that this is perfectly fine, which you happened to conveniently ignore (along with a whole bunch of my other points incidentally, while we're at the subject of "not bringing up new arguments").

What is not fine are your attempts to trivialize quality of these titles - not through your subjective opinions, but using problems you made up (you didn't provide a single shred of evidence for majority of your claims, by the way) and then trying to pass them as valid in an argument. If your argument ended at "I tried those games, I think they're rubbish" or even "I don't have to try those games and they still appear rubbish" - yeah, I'm perfectly fine with that. But start veering into factual territory and I'll argue.

I'd also like to add that majority of the discussion was not even relevant to quality of any of these titles - you seemed to focus a lot more on why other people are wrong, which... Just proves to me that you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to these games. And this is fine. They're paid products. If you don't feel confident in them, it's okay to raise your concerns and voice your opinion, in spite of not experiencing them. But trying to pass your feelings off as anything more than that is ... Arguable.

that actually makes my life a little easier, i'll just buy Tyranny then. wasn't impressed with the trailers for Dishonored anyway, those powers just ruin the game for me. i don't like "stealth" games where i can become an invisible smoke monster