Posted March 14, 2018

adamhm
GOG for Linux
Registered: May 2009
From United Kingdom

Hakuso3
I see the fnords!
Registered: May 2011
From United States
Posted March 14, 2018
My issue with Denuvo, beyond my typical distaste for all DRM, is that out of the thirteen games I own that use it eleven have locked me out at least once due to authentication errors that it requires internet access to correct.
I've never seen any performance issues as some have claimed, but I have a pretty beefy setup so I'm not riding any lines for system requirements, but I have had almost every Denuvo game I "own" randomly refuse to launch until I could get online and supplicate myself before the alter of Denuvo and beg permission to play the game I spent $90 on.
Now, I might still buy them like I did for God Eater and Tales of Berseria, but I'm waiting for a 75-80% off sale before I do and even then I'm only picking up ones I would have pre-ordered without Denuvo infesting the game.
The real issue I have is publishers lying about it being in games. Mad Max didn't have it listed, on the store page or in the (yes, I actually read those things) EULA, for about a year after launch. Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet is using it, but there's no mention on the store page or in the EULA. That kind of thing leads to me boycotting the company as a whole, even on console where their ports aren't adversely affected by paranoia and the corporate bureaucracy that leads them to stubbornly refuse to remove it even after it's been more than a year since the game has been cracked with all the DLC included.
WB got me with their lies, I bought Mad Max and exceeded the refund window before I ran into an issue with it, and then when I complained I was accused of piracy with the receipt on offer. That ticked me off enough that I dropped the entire Warner family of companies, from the CW to WB movies to Time Warner Cable to HBO to DC Comics on top of the games.
On the bright side my internet is cheaper, if slower, and I'm saving money by not going to their movies or buying their comics or subscribing to HBO anymore :)
Bandai Namco lost me as well, but since they don't have such a large portfolio of content it's just PC/3DS/Switch/Vita sales they've lost.
I've never seen any performance issues as some have claimed, but I have a pretty beefy setup so I'm not riding any lines for system requirements, but I have had almost every Denuvo game I "own" randomly refuse to launch until I could get online and supplicate myself before the alter of Denuvo and beg permission to play the game I spent $90 on.
Now, I might still buy them like I did for God Eater and Tales of Berseria, but I'm waiting for a 75-80% off sale before I do and even then I'm only picking up ones I would have pre-ordered without Denuvo infesting the game.
The real issue I have is publishers lying about it being in games. Mad Max didn't have it listed, on the store page or in the (yes, I actually read those things) EULA, for about a year after launch. Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet is using it, but there's no mention on the store page or in the EULA. That kind of thing leads to me boycotting the company as a whole, even on console where their ports aren't adversely affected by paranoia and the corporate bureaucracy that leads them to stubbornly refuse to remove it even after it's been more than a year since the game has been cracked with all the DLC included.
WB got me with their lies, I bought Mad Max and exceeded the refund window before I ran into an issue with it, and then when I complained I was accused of piracy with the receipt on offer. That ticked me off enough that I dropped the entire Warner family of companies, from the CW to WB movies to Time Warner Cable to HBO to DC Comics on top of the games.
On the bright side my internet is cheaper, if slower, and I'm saving money by not going to their movies or buying their comics or subscribing to HBO anymore :)
Bandai Namco lost me as well, but since they don't have such a large portfolio of content it's just PC/3DS/Switch/Vita sales they've lost.

Pheace
New User
Registered: Jul 2010
From Netherlands
Posted March 14, 2018

https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/report-the-pirated-version-of-final-fantasy-xv-runs-faster-better-than-the-steam-version/
As for the performance thing, that's a little odd as there was an article claiming the exact opposite a few days ago and Durante's a pretty well known optimization modder (created DSfix for Dark Souls)
https://www.pcgamer.com/denuvo-drm-performance-final-fantasy-15/

I do sympathize with people who still have spotty internet and probably buying games with DRM's like Denuvo is not recommended if you don't go online in at least a semi-daily basis or something like that. Rather though I hope global coverage just speeds up so people aren't left behind anymore.
Post edited March 14, 2018 by Pheace

Hakuso3
I see the fnords!
Registered: May 2011
From United States
Posted March 14, 2018

I do sympathize with people who still have spotty internet and probably buying games with DRM's like Denuvo is not recommended if you don't go online in at least a semi-daily basis or something like that. Rather though I hope global coverage just speeds up so people aren't left behind anymore.
As to the internet, if I'm at my apartment I have always on broadband, but if I'm traveling or at my place up in the mountains I'm offline for weeks or even months at a time. While I live in the US my place is rather remote, I say "more wolves than WiFi" as a description, and far enough out that even dial-up isn't an option as well as being on the wrong slopwe for satellite.
With Steam alone I can lug it in to town, download new gamwes and do the first run to authenticate them, then expect the game to work reliably for at least the next year. GOG is eternal, and why I buy every game I can here, but Steam is at least passable these days. A decade ago their offline mode was a mess, but it's been pretty good for years now, so while I'd prefer to not have any DRM I can at least play my games if it's Steam only.
The thing that puzzles me about Denuvo is why, after the game gets cracked, so few publishers/developers ever patch it out. They know it's unpopular so, once it's no longer doing its job, what possible reason could they have to retain useless code that alienates paying customers while the pirates happily ignore it?

JinKazaragi
New User
Registered: Jul 2015
From Germany
Posted March 14, 2018

I do sympathize with people who still have spotty internet and probably buying games with DRM's like Denuvo is not recommended if you don't go online in at least a semi-daily basis or something like that. Rather though I hope global coverage just speeds up so people aren't left behind anymore.

As to the internet, if I'm at my apartment I have always on broadband, but if I'm traveling or at my place up in the mountains I'm offline for weeks or even months at a time. While I live in the US my place is rather remote, I say "more wolves than WiFi" as a description, and far enough out that even dial-up isn't an option as well as being on the wrong slopwe for satellite.
With Steam alone I can lug it in to town, download new gamwes and do the first run to authenticate them, then expect the game to work reliably for at least the next year. GOG is eternal, and why I buy every game I can here, but Steam is at least passable these days. A decade ago their offline mode was a mess, but it's been pretty good for years now, so while I'd prefer to not have any DRM I can at least play my games if it's Steam only.
The thing that puzzles me about Denuvo is why, after the game gets cracked, so few publishers/developers ever patch it out. They know it's unpopular so, once it's no longer doing its job, what possible reason could they have to retain useless code that alienates paying customers while the pirates happily ignore it?
In other cases they might be afraid how the stock owners might react, who usually know as much about the matter as a fish knows about space traveling.

Nicole28
Huntress
Registered: Jan 2010
From Other
Posted March 14, 2018

https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/report-the-pirated-version-of-final-fantasy-xv-runs-faster-better-than-the-steam-version/
The highly important gist of it, is that this title version is completely naked and denuvo-less. Which greatly serves a crucial use, to put to rest the debates about whether denuvo hurts performance and/or by how much. However, this was never a clear-cut issue. Because it depends partially on how the protection was implemented and whether the video-game itself was optimized properly in the first place.
Post edited March 14, 2018 by Nicole28

richlind33
bong hits for beelzebub
Registered: Jan 2016
From United States
Posted March 15, 2018

StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted March 15, 2018
As I have said many, many times I wouldn't mind these DRM schemes if they were removed once cracked. Patches removing DRM should be a standard practice, not an extreme rarity. Luckily we're on PC where the community will take care of preservation if needed, but consoles are going to have a really rough go of it for download-only titles.

Catmancer
New User
Registered: Jan 2012
From United States
Posted October 21, 2020
This makes me glad Dishonored 2 is on gog now.

MysterD
OLD User
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted October 22, 2020

It should literally be standard to remove DRM, when the game's old. PERIOD.
So, what do I mean by the above for "old?"
DRM should ALWAYS be removed at the worst namely: once a game's old; it's on sale constantly; can be had for dirt-cheap (i.e. $10 or less); no longer getting many patches/updates; and especially when the game's no longer getting new DLC's/expansions/Season Passes.
.

StingingVelvet
Devil's Advocate
Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted October 22, 2020
I'd guess a year would be fine, though I think some Denuvo games have avoided being cracked for longer than that. I don't think companies have ever been sensible about using DRM though. I remember one of Witcher 2's publishers insisting on DRM in their region despite a GOG version being available day one.

MysterD
OLD User
Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted October 22, 2020


They often don't care about patching-out DRM to old versions of the game on Steam, Epic, whatever....and then go release a DRM-FREE version on GOG so they can get that double-dip $.