bump

Again:
voting you, because I had been rerolled town in the same role twice and I saw it scummy talking about previous roles, when I had the same one.
the name thing, again, that's being cleared, let's say ZFR made a mistake when voting me for not liking your posts. How is that scummy of me?
You keep going on and on with those two things. And you are convincing me more of you being a scum duo from the beginning, starting a strategy were you would cling on silly things obsessively until the end. And you are still doing it.
Now tell me instead, how is ZFR not scummy?

"That is a kind of tenacity that can come from a scum mindset. "
Perfect, that's precicely how you and ZFR look to me.

" Or you are just incredibly subborn as a person."
False, I have changed my mind many times, you go on with the same stories. That's scummy.

I've already explained this, but I'll go over my old posts and summarise it. Also so that others can read my case against you.

Note this will contain repeats of what already has been said, but here is a nice summary so you don't have to follow the pages long tirade.

hashtag for easy search: scummysummary

A) Over defensive reactions to (reasonable) requests and assumptions that they are made intentionally to trap her, instead of taking the request at face value. To the point of making some absurd assumptions like that my claim request was made so scum!me could counterclaim her.
Note that she's free to reject the request, but there is no need to assume an intentional conspiracy.
In my experience, such reactions are consistent with newbie first time Mafia, who think everyone out there is conspiring to get them. At least I haven't seen it in Town-dogmaus last game.

Source: #57, #151

B) Denying having made previously written statements. I can understand even Town may misremember what they previously wrote but again in my experience it's more likely to happen with scum. A Town simply writes the truth, a scum has to pretend to write the truth and is more likely to get their story wrong. dogmaus has a few times denied stuff that I pointed out she has written previously.
Her defensive-agressive reaction to having her exact previous posts pointed out didn't help either.

Source: #87 (dogmaus's 85 contradicting 47), #127 (dogmaus's 125 contradicting 57)

C) Her obsessive clinging to a theory that has been shown false by four people (myself, Lift, Pooka, yogs. Later also indirectly by catte). This admittedly in itself is not a strong point, since Town have been known to do it too (e.g. GR clinging to wrong theories despite being corrected by several people). But in GR's case it's something you learn to live with by now, in dogmaus's case I haven't seen it in a previous game. So a few scum-points she gets.

Source: #47 up to #126. I won't list the posts one by one.

D) And finally, it doesn't help last two days her making several false statements about me. Not even "twisting the truth", but writing something that is blatantly false.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/inviteonly_forum_game_gog_mafia_74_bizarro_mafia/post200
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/inviteonly_forum_game_gog_mafia_74_bizarro_mafia/post247
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/inviteonly_forum_game_gog_mafia_74_bizarro_mafia/post281
It's really looking like just trying to discredit me.

So that's my case against dogmaus. Given all that, I think my vote best stays on her for the time being.

I've explained my reasoning and included post numbers. Everyone is free to do their own research.

A) you tried to force me to reveal my role falsely claiming that I was L1. Why don't you ask anyone else to pclaim and vote for them if they don't? I'm not telling scum my role. Why do you want scum to know my role? How you or other scum conterclaiming to get me lynched was absurd? It was a possibility. Then you and Lift would have said ooops sorry, I read it wrong, I didn't understand, that's your excuse for all your lies and scum strategy since page 1.

B) I deny not having said things you made up. It's scummy of you making those things up. Instead, you have been seeing by everyone lying repeateadly.

C) "Her obsessive clinging to a theory that has been shown false by four people". No, you keep saying that, but I had changed my mind about it and unvoted. You keep saying this doen't make it true, it makes you look scummy.

D) I have never made false statements about you, it's the opposite and everyone could see those.

So? All your 4 points are made up.

Yeah, I'm done here. I've repeatedly asked you to stop.

I just spent the better half of the morning going over the previous posts on a day when I should be doing something else. I just don't have the energy to deal with this anymore.

You win. I can't read and I just foam at the mouth. You're the cool dude who makes reasonable posts that everyone misinterprets.

Sorry Joe it had to happen at your game. Hope you can get a sub.

Ok, I'll get a chance to see if it was just your beheaviour and you weren't scum afterall. Take care of you, if the pressure from the game is too much you are doing the right choice.

If you were reading to understand and not merely to maintain your defense mode, you would have read what my reply to your question was about. The difference between ZFR and you is, that he only started to react negatively to you once you started with personal attacks. You, however, reacted instantly negatively to your theory being called out as unfounded.

See the difference? Being insulted by personal insults = valid. Being insulted by a contradiction to an ingame theory = suspicious.

As for your: "Yeah but I did drop my theory!111!!"
Yes, you did. After days of arguing and after Pooka and Catte confirmed that you were dead wrong. It took a lot of pressure for you to finally see that you are just making yourself look bad. Then you dropped your "theory."

But you still cling to not seeing your error. As evidenced by your repeatedly bringing it up. Both ZFR and I have already said to drop it. Even the mod has asked you to stop your attacks. But you continue.

At this point, frankly, I don't care if you are scum or not. You are scummy, yes, but even if you are Town your behaviour is just anti-game and spoils the fun. So by now I simply want to remove you from the game because your behaviour is disruptive and makes it difficult to talk about anything else but you. Unless you are unable to drop the topic you hurt Town a lot. But unlike ZFR I am not willing to give up remove myself from the game just to avoid being attacked by you. I'll just try to lynch you and thereby improve our chances of winning the game.

If my gut feeling is true, we lynch Scum with you and are a big step closer to winning. If my gut feeling is wrong, we at least remove a big distraction and get some interconnections (Pooka, Yogs) to analyze.



@ZFR: please stick around. As I said before, simply don't answer to Dogmaus at all anymore. Ignore her. Hopefully the problem will resolve itself Today. Because even if I filter out all the personal attacks, I see her as our best chance to get scum and so there is a good chance that Tommorrow she won't be able to continue her attacks anymore.

I don't see it this way at all, absolutely the opposite is what happened.

" Even the mod has asked you to stop your attacks."
That's not how I see it, it's your interpretation. ZFR was doing the attacks, and that's legit, as he said ("it's nothing compared of what is usually said in a game of Mafia"). So you insisting with this personal attacks story are suspicious. Why any sort of insult is ok ZFR but if I ask ZFR to rethink the situation that's a personal attack and uncool? Also, how does it matter? How "personal attacks" show if someone is town or scum? My point is that ZFR used them to avoid giving serious answers, trincering himself behing meme-like reactions and nasty remarks. Which I'm ok with. If that's how he likes to play. What's important is that he is enjoying himself. And if he wansn't, town or scum, it's good for him to find something else to play. Really, I don't believe he is quitting the game and I think this is still drama play, because he has done that already. Look, I'm quitting so I'm town and Dogmous is scum...meh. You could have organized that together.

"At this point, frankly, I don't care if you are scum or not. You are scummy, yes, but even if you are Town your behaviour is just anti-game and spoils the fun."
Anti-game? I'm playing and having fun :) I hope the others are having fun too. If you don't care about my role, then feel free to concentrate on other players!

"Unless you are unable to drop the topic you hurt Town a lot. "
What topic? It's been you two going on and on forever with the same story since page one.

" But unlike ZFR I am not willing to give up remove myself from the game just to avoid being attacked by you."
Do as you please, as long you enjoy the game and have a good time!

". I'll just try to lynch you and thereby improve our chances of winning the game."
If you are scum, for sure.

" If my gut feeling is wrong, we at least remove a big distraction and get some interconnections (Pooka, Yogs) to analyze"
I think the same about you and ZFR. This coming from the one who messed up the whole start of the game XD

Please don't leave, I agree with Lift that it's best for you to just ignore Dogmaus at this point. You've addressed everything and your posts are there for everyone to see. No one expects you to continually retread old ground.

ewww.
---
yeah lots of stuff i agree with, IRL was interesting and good and bad and meh all on the same day,
I was wondering about Catte until I recalled he was busy so that's off the table. though it he wasn't busy, then the arguments would have had weight.


I would say that bragging rights are equally not "gut feeling" as "pull names out of a hat/pull names out of thin air" so that at the end of the game if any of those so named at the beginning are scum, the braggart could say, "see, i told you so!"


still not happy with yogs to date, though my feeling on catte has improved.

I think scum Dogmaus would have approached this issue differently?

I have no intent on voting her on D1 unless it is "Dogmaus or NL with [very few] minutes to go."
I have never seen Scum!ZFR, though I wouldn't put it past a mod to assign people he wanted to play as scum. I recall him being about this aggressive in one of the last games we played. NAI.

Lift (222) is talking about Die rolls and reminding me that i can never win any PC game that involves dice games as a side-thing. Lift's shade on Catte could be seen as scum taking a firm stand on throwing shade on another player. Could be Town saying, "oh, yeah, that's right".

Yogs--i like that he explained his comment; i'm sorry he made it at all. If, hypothetically, only scum got rerolled and all but 3 people said thair roles hadn't changed, this would be overly telling. and anti-fun.

? there's a new school? [did they tear down the old building or is it a community center or some such?]

If it wasn't for tremendous amounts of not-having-time-itis, i would agree with you. when i was scum i was very happy to let town self-destruct.once they did so spectacularly.

@catte: posting without reading is more fun. Also, more typos. (I've inserted a multi-paragraph typo before in one of these games that resulted in bad things for my team.)

also, tea is very good.

i should check to see if i have the same role/team after reroll.

@250 i did notice some sort of role claim before yogs iirc, but right now my head feels like it is in a vice and yeah.

bragging rights with teeth (that might be based on hunches, not on thin air):pooka and Bookwyrm.
Why Bookwyrm? idk exctly. Why Pooka? He's idk

suspect list
not-Joe
not-Micro
[Yeah, i fell asleep here and woke up 10 hours later with no more clue nor reading before posting this:]
(in no exact order?)
zfr
dogmaus
catte
yogs
lift
GR
pooka
Wyrm.

yeah, having reread this

I've never seen ZFR in a scum game. This hyper-tunneling by Dogmaus could be town tunneling (we've all done this to a certain extent), or scum tunneling to try and disable one of the biggest threats--as I did to Zeogold on discord. When I did it, I ignored all logic and kept twisting my argument into any sort of a way that made sense--even vaguely--to me, no matter how full of holes it was.
I see similar coming from Dogmaus. I'm very glad she's having fun playing the game, and maybe next game will be different.

since you aren't dropping things even Joe has asked you (both) to drop, but instead keep on bringing them up over and over again, it reminds me so strongly of my scum strategy that I am doing this:

vote dogmaus

If ZFR is scum, I will apologize for not believing you, but I think the whole basis or premise of your argument is very flimsy (at best), and so the entire argument can be very shaky as a result.


@yogs
What is up with this? no explanation, no reasoning, and you ought to know that Pooka Declared that RVS was over. Explain yourself, man!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


unofficial vote count:

Domgaus: (4) -- ZFR (52) Lift (76) Wyrm (140) Micro (296)
Bookwyrm: (1) -- Yogs (293)
ZFR: (1) -- Dogmaus (265)
Microfish_1: (1) - ettac orrazib si eman ym (51)

Not voting: GR, Pooka

With 9 players living, it takes 5 votes to lunch.
Dogmaus is closest to lunch at L1

About 3 or 4 days left before the deadline.

This is everything since 92, which stated (3 days ago)

I have been forced into Lift and ZFR game, it's their doing since the beginning. Careful if you are falling for it.

bump

I'd say for ZFR's joy I could claim but he has said he doesn't care anymore what my role is. I am a PSYCHOANALYST.