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davidacampbell: So why do you think Beamdog just does it anyway? Because this is important enough to them, and they believe the market can handle it. It's because if you guys had your way we would keep repeating the 80's/90's for the next 100 years. The originals still exist, you don't have to buy these expansions. Vote with your wallet and then maybe show a little dignity and shut your mouth.
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Totenglocke: Beamdog did it because their main writer is a self-professed SJW who openly stated on the Beamdog forums that she hopes to put even more SJW content (her term, I'm not labeling her) in future games. They always have to go to the extreme, even when it hurts their financial well-being.
What's so extreme about it? One character, a few new lines, a romancy sideplot...
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Gromuhl: Arguments like these are really counterproductive: a cow is an animal, so all animals are cows.

If people just stopped using logical fallacies, we could have a decent and fruitful discussion. Until that happens, we won't get anywhere. (see the rest of this thread)
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yggr: That's got nothing to do with what you quoted. Sorry, but please get your definitions right before you start throwing around technical terms.
Yes it does, my definition is quite correct.

A lot of people are throwing around terms like "the status quo, which is white males>all else", which is racist ánd a logical fallacy, which I see thrown around way too much.
It doesn't adress the issue, and only add fuel to the flames (which seems to be jaketwards job; trolling)
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yggr: That's got nothing to do with what you quoted. Sorry, but please get your definitions right before you start throwing around technical terms.
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Gromuhl: Yes it does, my definition is quite correct.

A lot of people are throwing around terms like "the status quo, which is white males>all else", which is racist ánd a logical fallacy, which I see thrown around way too much.
It doesn't adress the issue, and only add fuel to the flames (which seems to be jaketwards job; trolling)
You didn't even read his post, did you? I don't agree with him either, but he does not propagate white male supremacy. Not does he follow any logical reasoning. It's just his opinion, the way he thinks the world is - to his disliking, by the way.
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Totenglocke: Beamdog did it because their main writer is a self-professed SJW who openly stated on the Beamdog forums that she hopes to put even more SJW content (her term, I'm not labeling her) in future games. They always have to go to the extreme, even when it hurts their financial well-being.
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yggr: What's so extreme about it? One character, a few new lines, a romancy sideplot...
I hear ya.

I just read the whole thread and I feel that this problem is greatly overblown...by BOTH sides.

As much as I love Baldur's Gate 1, it didn't exactly have groundbreaking writing (it was pretty much a D&D campaign as a video game. BG2 was when it morphed into an actual story) and (until mods remedied that), most characters didn't have much in term of personality since they were never really given moments to shine (not to mention that there was so many of them. So that's why I don't have much of a problem with them adding up to existing characters.

Is the expansion badly written, honestly, I can't tell. The trans character is too exposition-heavy (and a bit too in your face), but it's still way too little for me to get a good opinion on it. I'm still going to buy it to form my own opinion (and even if the writing is bad, I've been itching for some Infinity Engine dungeon crawling for quite a while). Hell, I usually don't care that much for romantic subplots, gay or otherwise (I prefer my characters having platonic relationships).

And even if the expansion is bad, I still have the original and I can still play it to my hearts content. As for the reported bugs...well by the time the game gets a discount (the only point when I'll buy it), they'll have released a couple of patches by then.

Stuff like this don't ruin games for me. At worst, it irritates me. The Pillars of Eternity debacle about the backer-released tombstones and NPC didn't took out my enjoyment of the game. If I end up disliking Siege of Dragonspear, it'll be for different reasons.
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POLE7645: I hear ya.

I just read the whole thread and I feel that this problem is greatly overblown...by BOTH sides.

As much as I love Baldur's Gate 1, it didn't exactly have groundbreaking writing (it was pretty much a D&D campaign as a video game. BG2 was when it morphed into an actual story) and (until mods remedied that), most characters didn't have much in term of personality since they were never really given moments to shine (not to mention that there was so many of them. So that's why I don't have much of a problem with them adding up to existing characters.

Is the expansion badly written, honestly, I can't tell. The trans character is too exposition-heavy (and a bit too in your face), but it's still way too little for me to get a good opinion on it. I'm still going to buy it to form my own opinion (and even if the writing is bad, I've been itching for some Infinity Engine dungeon crawling for quite a while). Hell, I usually don't care that much for romantic subplots, gay or otherwise (I prefer my characters having platonic relationships).

And even if the expansion is bad, I still have the original and I can still play it to my hearts content. As for the reported bugs...well by the time the game gets a discount (the only point when I'll buy it), they'll have released a couple of patches by then.

Stuff like this don't ruin games for me. At worst, it irritates me. The Pillars of Eternity debacle about the backer-released tombstones and NPC didn't took out my enjoyment of the game. If I end up disliking Siege of Dragonspear, it'll be for different reasons.
This. One could argue that the often self-aware nature of the original games are full of cheeky comments, pop-culture, and breaking of the forth-wall, and would be considered anachronistic within the bounds of AD&D. These engagements were aimed at the modern audience of the time, and when arguing matters of canon seem to be a direct segue into what Beamdog has done here.
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POLE7645: I hear ya.

I just read the whole thread and I feel that this problem is greatly overblown...by BOTH sides.

As much as I love Baldur's Gate 1, it didn't exactly have groundbreaking writing (it was pretty much a D&D campaign as a video game. BG2 was when it morphed into an actual story) and (until mods remedied that), most characters didn't have much in term of personality since they were never really given moments to shine (not to mention that there was so many of them. So that's why I don't have much of a problem with them adding up to existing characters.

Is the expansion badly written, honestly, I can't tell. The trans character is too exposition-heavy (and a bit too in your face), but it's still way too little for me to get a good opinion on it. I'm still going to buy it to form my own opinion (and even if the writing is bad, I've been itching for some Infinity Engine dungeon crawling for quite a while). Hell, I usually don't care that much for romantic subplots, gay or otherwise (I prefer my characters having platonic relationships).

And even if the expansion is bad, I still have the original and I can still play it to my hearts content. As for the reported bugs...well by the time the game gets a discount (the only point when I'll buy it), they'll have released a couple of patches by then.

Stuff like this don't ruin games for me. At worst, it irritates me. The Pillars of Eternity debacle about the backer-released tombstones and NPC didn't took out my enjoyment of the game. If I end up disliking Siege of Dragonspear, it'll be for different reasons.
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davidacampbell: This. One could argue that the often self-aware nature of the original games are full of cheeky comments, pop-culture, and breaking of the forth-wall, and would be considered anachronistic within the bounds of AD&D. These engagements were aimed at the modern audience of the time, and when arguing matters of canon seem to be a direct segue into what Beamdog has done here.
I agree.

One thing I often said about Baldur's Gate is that it is rather self-aware. It knows that it's universe is filled to the brim with clichés and it had fun with it while still having a decent story. Baldur's Gate didn't took itself and it's setting 100% seriously and was, in my own opinion, all the better for it.

One of the reason why I prefer Divinity: Original Sin is because after more than a decade of RPGs trying to be darker and grittier, it was refreshing to see one that was both self-aware and just plain fun (I thought that I'd get that with Pillars of Eternity, and I didn't. Still liked the game, just wasn't what I expected). I mean, not every RPG has to be Game of Thrones.
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mainzelcount: Could someone please post Quotes with spoiler warnings from Dragonspear with these controversial parts (like Minsc talking about gamergate). It could help clarify this stuff. Thanks.
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vdrandom: I second this. Could you please? It's rather a strong statement that they've ruined the game. From what I hear the story is okay at least.

As for the matter, I don't really care if they include whatever characters they feel necessary or add some unexpected detail to a character as long as it fits in and is done with good storytelling. Agenda or not, if they keep their creativity intact while applying it, no problems. In the end “Ave Maria” is a prayer and I love that song, religion or not. (Hint: I rather dislike religions.)

On the other hand if it's hamfisted or just plain silly, then it's creativity hampered by politics, which happens as well. These days, a lot.

And I do hope they haven't changed anything in the original game's story. Social justice (as if mob had any way of being just, lol) or not, doing that would have been a sacrilege.

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Totenglocke: their main writer is a self-professed SJW who openly stated on the Beamdog forums that she hopes to put even more SJW content (her term, I'm not labeling her) in future games.
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vdrandom: Proof please? I'm rather distressed by the notion to be fair. O_O

PS. I'm a white straight male. And if someone thinks I somehow am committing some kind of crime by being one, then said someone's opinion probably is as (if not more) prejudiced as mine.
Sure thing, https://i.imgur.com/uFJZC03.jpg?1 That was on Beamdog's own forum where she posted that. She had an agenda to push and she pushed it, hard. You can go on various websites / forums and find screenshots of the trans dialogue, which was executed very poorly and even a trans person on Steam wrote a scathing response about how forcing token trans people into a video game just makes real trans people look bad.
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The most recent drama:

http://i.imgur.com/tZfVuiY.jpg?1

*sigh*
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Madoga: The most recent drama:

http://i.imgur.com/tZfVuiY.jpg?1

*sigh*
Like I said before, SJWs always double-down on the stupid. Attacking their potential customers caused a backlash and now they're doubling-down by launching further attacks and calling for the SJW media outlets to aid in their battle against criticism.
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They should have never put political agenda in the game in the first place, nor should they call disillusioned customers "not true Baldur's Gate fans", but I'm beginning to feel sorry for them.
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jaketward: That's the problem with all these crazy leftists. All they're interested in is compassion, equality and fairness. Screw those guys.
That’s how populism works, by packaging the ideas in value-laden generalities to make them impervious to attack, so that any opponent seems to be opposing something ”obviously good”, or vice versa. It’s when you look past those generalities when you see that the ideas are not so obviously good after all (for if they were, no-one would oppose them).

After all, when worded differently, "equality and fairness” often involve punishing success and rewarding failure, and imposing minority ideals on the majority, and in general making being in a minority a virtue in itself, something which often clashes with the notion of democracy.

Plus, I personally don’t take lessons in compassion from people who seem to spend a sizeable amount of their time being angry towards their political opponents. Better play Ultima for that.
Post edited April 04, 2016 by Bakusson
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davidacampbell: One could argue that the often self-aware nature of the original games are full of cheeky comments, pop-culture, and breaking of the forth-wall, and would be considered anachronistic within the bounds of AD&D. These engagements were aimed at the modern audience of the time, and when arguing matters of canon seem to be a direct segue into what Beamdog has done here.
True, but the difference here is that this time it's being done with a very political agenda, a very angry and condescending political agenda.
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yggr: You didn't even read his post, did you? I don't agree with him either, but he does not propagate white male supremacy. Not does he follow any logical reasoning. It's just his opinion, the way he thinks the world is - to his disliking, by the way.
I know exactly what he meant. Next time I'll try to eleborate somewhat better, my bad.
Post edited April 04, 2016 by Gromuhl
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Thanks for the warning. I was planning to buy it at a discount at a later date, just for the collector's sake, but even though i am a completionist, i never take in garbage and trash. I avoided MK X for the very same reason (shit character in game) and it proved really wise, too, as game had many issues and problems on pc, plus its devs left it half finished without further support, or additional content hitting pc version, either... Will do the same.

I never have a problem with other people doing whatever the hell they please, but only without them rubbing it in my face constantly or rioting for it to be accepted as normal. Or even worse, ruin games just to incorporate that filth inside them. Every game with political agenda has to be panned! Hands down from games and art!

Also, word is the devs are bugging many people and players, even in known forums, to give the game positive reviews, after their d*ckmove to champion vermin by ruining a classic series, one of the best gaming had to offer, an all time masterpiece! They even use censorship in forums and public conversations, probably thinking that this will help people calm down for this sacrilege, but truth couldn't be further away, alas... On the contrary! Avoid it like hell and...

REMEMBER TO BUY THE ORIGINALS RIGHT NOW! Few days later they are going to be forever merged into the Enhanced Editions and being distributed only from inside THEM! For a very higher price and bundled together with that sh*t and cr@p! Get your copies now, GOG says they will be preserved in your shelf, if you buy them before the end of this month!

Baldur's Gate, R.I.P. Dual wielding dildos and ranged schlongs locked you up into their underground dungeon...
Post edited April 04, 2016 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: REMEMBER TO BUY THE ORIGINALS RIGHT NOW! Few days later they are going to be forever merged into the Enhanced Editions and being distributed only from inside THEM! For a very higher price and bundled together with that sh*t and cr@p! Get your copies now, GOG says they will be preserved in your shelf, if you buy them before the end of this month!
Source?