"Hey, look who's back!"
The friendly penguin tyrannosaur travels serenely through the bizarro aether. It writes as it goes.

1 - yogsloth - Microfish_1,
1 - PookaMustard - Bookwyrm627,
1 - Bookwyrm627 - yogsloth,

0 - Microfish_1 -
0 - ettac orrazib si eman ym -
0 - Lifthrasil -
0 - GamezRanker -
0 - No-Lunch -

Not Voting - PookaMustard, ettac orrazib si eman ym, GamezRanker, Lifthrasil,

yogsloth, PookaMustard and Bookwyrm627 are closest to elimination at 3 votes away.

"Hey! Let us know if there's anything we can do to help you out!" Calls Joe. The penguin tyrannosaur doesn't respond. "Guess he's just a nice guy!"

Ooh, a standoff!

In terms of reads today I've been leaning towards Yogs being the townier of the two. However, if Microfish is scum I have to say that entering into a standoff like this is a pretty strange play.
I don't really see how this could be town on town other than the imaginative modifier, but it seems like a bastard move for the extra results to be exactly what we'd expect scum to have. Based on that I assume that either Micro is making it up or it's a real result and therefore one of them is scum.

Hmm.

Careful how you throw around "logical induction based on available, verifiable facts".

Verifiable Fact 1: We know there are at least two different modifiers in the original setup. "Conditional (Action fails if any teammate uses an action)" and "Half (must act in conjunction with another half to function)". Therefore, we know that not everyone has Conditional.

Assumption: Everyone gets some kind of power that isn't technically useless. Therefore, there is another player with HALF to pair with ZFR.

Verifiable Fact 2: There are multiple modifiers in the OP that could be applied to nerf someone into near-but-not-total uselessness. Even if we don't reuse "Conditional" above with a different condition, we could pick Naive, One-Shot, Original, Paranoid, Reflexive, and Shy. Combine this list with what we've seen and there is enough for every townie to have something different without any repeats.

So, with all this in mind, why can't Micro happen to have a combination that actually worked last night? If he's Original and no one else targeted Yog, it works. If he's Shy and no one targeted Micro, it works.

With everyone poking around for mafia-oriented modifiers, the trick (of course) becomes "How do I nerf all these cops so mafia has a chance?"

Huh. That defense was surprisingly easy.

I'd say about 2 weeks. 1 week for voting, and 1 week for twilight. (I'm teasing you, Joe!)

Come on, Lift. Townies definitely test for reactions. Townies will also apologize for off-ing someone if they aren't entirely sure or if they feel a bit bad for scum being caught out due to no fault of their own.

Hm. Which are those, again? 62 is game, 78 is game, 89 is for fun, 117 is game, 140 is game, 144 is answering a newbie's question with both TL;DR and my reasoning for those who care, 148 is game (including me defending my position from earlier), 149 isn't really game, 161 is game defending my claim request, 165 is answering a newbie question, 171 is explanation.

Then I got busy with Life. 301 acknowledges this, and I ended up swamped for most of the rest of D1.

Did we read the same ISO of Bookwyrm?

If you're concerned about my joining the Dogmaus wagon, I had multiple reasons, and I neither regret nor repent helping that lynch.
1) Per 62 (and what I've said in prior games), I'm absolutely willing to jump on even an RVS wagon. I believe it helps break RVS.
2) I firmly side with ZFR in the fight between ZFR and Dogmaus. That said, I decided not to get mixed up in it.
3) Especially as it continued, I came to view Dogmaus as a fatal risk to Town if left alive. That level of OMGUS would have been an on-going problem and distraction that we could not afford. If she can't be suspected without counter-accusing, then she can't be analysed and will absolutely prevent scum hunting by pushing back on the Townies that try to figure her out. The complete mis-representations of what people said would also hurt Town. Even back then, I figured she was Town in alignment, but she was definitely helping scum.

I still think it was a good lynch.

Any other chat link? Huh. I didn't get any chat link at all.

While I'm glad I'm not dead, I submit that typically Mafia only gets a single factional kill and Cadaver is currently busy living up to his namesake.

Read what he said again. He's saying that he looked for any ways in which his result might have been corrupted, and he's saying he doesn't see any. His request is for anyone else that can see such a scenario to present it.

-----

I think Micro's behavior matches up with town that got a scum result than with scum making a ploy. His first D2 post is dropping that vote without revealing he got an investigation, his next post backs it with the claim. Yog's posts have been more questionable on this Day. I don't see Scum!Micro volunteering to run this kind of trade, and I don't see a partner in the list that would have pushed for it.

The pieces point toward Yogsloth being scum, and I'm happy to stake Micro's life on it.

Unvote Pooka
Vote Yogsloth

THIS.....this is why I don't think any more town should claim the role if they have it.

As there might possibly be other(maybe more useful) town roles among us, I don't think more town should claim at the current time.

Intereastingz...you're THAT sure, then?

And then the scum team took out the other half of that TvT,,,,crazy how that works sometimes, eh?

Btw, what do you think of the ZFR-Daver NK? Any thoughts?

Either way, I think we shouldn't have any more town claiming roles in case there are more useful(non psychoanalyst) roles out there...as I said just a little while ago to Micro.

Speaking of Yog: what do you think of Post 347(which came after your post 346)?
I asked Yog about it in Post 350, to see if it was a claim of psychoanalyst or not, but seem to have gotten no reply back.

Almost forgot:

Vote Micro

Why?

Because my gut says his vote was a bit too "eager sounding" in post 408, and also: why would he delay his explanation/results post to explain his vote for 7 hours until Post 414? Maybe because his mind is elsewhere as his family member is ill? Mayhaps, but imo something is off.
(would also vote others including Yog if need be, say if the Micro wagon goes nowhere by EOD)

Um.
*Concerned*

Not to be offensive, but you ARE reading the game, right?

I've admitted in prior games that I sometimes skim some posts here and there(like some of the more wordy technical posts).

That said, my point was/is (in part) that Yog's "claim post"(i.e. Post 347) seemed to be "riding the coat tails"(correct phrasing?) of Dogmaus's claim(Post 300) and Catte's claim(iirc Post 304)...sort of what a scum might do to blend in and gain town points.

As such, while I voted Micro I do find Yog somewhat suspect as well.....but I want to hold off a bit* on voting for them for the time being.
(* in part for reasons like me being wrong so often in these games, and sometimes second guessing myself in such)

Anyhoo, we have several IRL days left in D2....what's the rush? :)
(I know.....says the player who ended D1 early)

Hoo boy.

For the people who say "but Joe wouldn't throw the qualifiers for scum in an Imaginative result," I don't think this argument really holds up much water, for one simple reason: it relies on faith that Joe hasn't designed this game in a certain way. I'd even call it outguessing the mod. Could be possible microfish only got "networked" as the correct qualifier too, and yogsloth is part of a bizzaro masonteam of psychoanalysts.

So microfish may not necessarily be right about yogsloth, that is ignoring other concerns like why only his action has reportedly worked so far.

I'm honestly more concerned about GR, who has done the classic "oops I accidentally voted" thing on dogmaus. He could have just voted it and admitted that he was hammering and called it a day, and I believe no one would have cared. But he had to top it all off with a small sip of oops. And that's been bothering me all night. What are the chances that if he's scum, he rushed and made up his concern about the untimely hammer?

So I'll apply some light pressure there, at least for now.
vote GamezRanker

Both yogsloth and bookwyrm I find boring. Yes, yogsloth made some nice ISOs at the start of the game but then again I've done much bigger and more detailed ones as scum just for the heck of it. And Bookwyrm feels pretty forgettable this game, not much content? Same goes for catte, he has made some posts but I can't remember any definitive stances from him. Lifthrasil seems pretty Town to me so far, based on the feeling I get by reading his posts.

I'm at the hospital for the last 12 hours with no end in sight. Drunk in the next bed is making things unpleasant.
Dad will almost assuredly have to have his gallbladder out soonish. Maybe today.

@426 I didn't want to claim because a claimed town PR isn't as good as an unclaimed town PR. Surely you know this. You were the one who tried to keep others from claiming.
I like book s 423 and think I like it even without the backing up my thinking. Either book is town or he decide to pocket me and bus yogs. Might go to bed now if I can.
I hope this isn't duplicate,..
......
I'm at the hospital for the last 12 hours with no end in sight. Drunk in the next bed is making things unpleasant.
Dad will almost assuredly have to have his gallbladder out soonish. Maybe today.

@426 I didn't want to claim because a claimed town PR isn't as good as an unclaimed town PR. Surely you know this. You were the one who tried to keep others from claiming.
I like book s 423 and think I like it even without the backing up my thinking. Either book is town or he decide to pocket me and bus yogs. Might go to bed now if I can.

Bump?

I hope things turn out well for your dad, Micro, even if it's unlikely. Hope he gets well soon!

What. We have a standoff between Micro and Yogs which we can only resolve with a flip. If we mislynch today, we'll be at LYLO tomorrow and need a solid lead (which a resolution of the Micro/Yogs standoff would give us) ... and you open a new wagon? Yes, GR hammered and oopsed afterwards. Classic scum move. But he also genuinely called Dogmaus out on her Psychoanalyst claim and genuinely seemed enthusiastic about finally having caught scum. I don't think that was faked. Do you?

About your 'imaginative' speculation with networked being the true read, don't you think that Yogs would have said so by now, if he were Mason?


@Micro: I can understand your reasoning IF you really got that read that you wanted to get Yogs lynched without claiming. However, I don't agree that, if that's what you did, it was a good idea in this game. With a positive read, I would have come out immediately. Every delay just makes it look as if you're scum and you made something up when your previous attempt didn't work. Also claiming isn't that dangerous in this game. We're in a role heavy setup anyhow and the general assumption was, that we're all Psychoanalysts. So it would have been best, if you had come out either right away or at the moment when it was discussed whether we are all hobbled. That would have been the moment to say: "No, I actually got a read!"

But you delayed it and seemed to conjure the investigation result out of a hat. That makes it a tad less believable for me, because it would also still fit the assumption of you being scum.

So, I'm still stuck with the feeling that, behaviourwise, Micro is the more scummy of the two. If it weren't for the negative utility of scum going into a 1 on 1 at this point, I would side with Yogs. But, behavior aside, it is more likely that a Town-Micro would come out with such a claim than that Scum-Micro gives himself up with such a claim.

One question though, Micro: why did you feel the need to rename the modifiers? Why we may not quote PMs, we never had problems with sharing investigation results. A normal Cop would never say: "I got an investigation result that rhymes with bum!" (or rhymes with "build tea") They would say "I got a scum result" or "a guilty result."
So why the extra flourish?


Game aside: all the best for your dad and lots of strenght to you and him and your family!

I realize that yogsloth and microfish are the real attraction of the day, yes I'm very much aware of this. My speculation directly touches upon their conflict.

Doesn't mean I shouldn't suspect GR and use my vote to apply pressure. Besides, it's too early to worry about wagons forming, what's with seven or six days left until deadline. I actually don't intend to have a wagon on GR, I just want him to convince me that this Classic Scum Move(TM) was a honest mistake.

I think there's more to be gained by not spilling the beans. Otherwise he'll be asked to name his mason and have his mason confirm. So it is still reasonable within speculation that yogsloth held that back.

Especially when you consider that the Mafia team aren't explicitly named "Mafia" but are defined by the combo of the two separate roles Networked and (Murderous or Brutal), so it wouldn't be farfetched to see Networked in a standalone role for Masons...or heck, even Murderous for weird psychoanalyst-vigilante hybrids.

So based on all of this, Micro v. yogsloth could still be Town Violence, but there's a more realistic chance of scum among them than IMO dogmaus vs. ZFR (who both flipped "Town" anyway).