Hm. That is true. But I guess we are all made useless in one way or the other. Otherwise a game where every Townie is an investigator would be over quickly.

About you speculating about a scum psychologist: well, you had a head-start. You had read my claim in Game 1 and knew that there was a scum Psychoanalyst in that game. But did micro read that claim too? If so, he at least hasn't said so.

Well not entirely useless....we all still have our votes, and some town seem to be less hobbled than others...but I hear ya.

True enough, but one thing: I didn't know if your claim was genuine or made up at the time. My guess then was that it was a false claim, and then later on when I read Catte's "claim" in Post 304 I started to wonder if there could be scum psychoanalysts as well.

You mean your original Post 20? If so, then I dunno.

assuming all town roles are useless because the one that flipped was?
assuming all town are psychoanalysts based on 3 claims and 1 flip?
assuming even that all town psychoanalysts are useless?
voting someone without any reasoning?
ignoring my question about the last time you did this?

VOTE YOGSLOTH
if i had 100 votes they'd all go to yogsloth. I am convinced he is scum.
no questions.
no doubts.
absolutelez confidenclez.
I'd eat my virtual hat if I was wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're playing, and it's been too long, I just am calling you scum. I don't see any possibility where i would change my vote today.
~~~~~~

@Lift. GR let the cat out of the bag--not in so many words, but heavily implied that you had been a psychoanalyst--and you admitted that you investigated someone, found out info about them, and then found out that you were scum. In one of the previous games I've been in (One of Joe's??) there was a scum psychoanalyst, as I recalled, and with many people seeming to claim it, I wondered.

When I said, "good catch" etc, I meant it. i deliberately put that that way for a reaction to see if anyone caught it.

I voted and apologized to Dogmaus because a) there was a large likelihood she was town, given the odds of 7:2; i voted her to remove a distraction from what I saw as probable TvT, but we couldn't talk about literally anything else for more than a couple posts, which would have been fine if I had seen the other side of her arguments as scum. I saw no other viable wagons. I chose the side of that conflict that seemed worse. As stated in D1 iirc, I saw it as a possibility of being "me vs Zeogold 2.0" when i was scum trying to discredit him so much and so long that he realized i was scum.
The last time i was town i was happy to have town bickering and fighting each other. It meant clear sailing. I also really did not want to be N1 target.

@ZFR I'm very sorry you decided to quit this game, but I respect your decision. I hope you are back for next game.
@CadaverThank you for filling in! It's a pity you don't get to do anything more than your "Bah" post (where is it?) this sub, but thank you for being willing!

Bah, I did something actually.
https://youtu.be/IeP4_12dbu4

This is a very strong response indeed.

I think that most of Yogs assumptions are fairly sensible. I don't think we should assume that we have any useful powers and should essentially play it as mountainous.

Well, the assumption that we all are Psychoanalysts is not that far fetched after the two flips and three claims. No one claimed not to be a Psychoanalyst and when you find yourself in a game where atypically half the players seem to have the same PR, the assumtion that it's a setup where everyone has the same role is valid. Of course it still is nothing but an assumption.
The second assumption that all Psychoanalysts are more or less useless is, however, a balancing necessity. Otherwise scum would have no chance. We could just do a circle investigation and be done with it.

OK on the two points that you explained. I hadn't remembered that GR let the Catte out of the bag.
But the excuse of 'hey, I was just testing for a reaction' has been used very often by scum when caught at something. As has been the apologizing to a Townie close to lynch to appear nice. Scum has the advantage of knowing when to apologize because the lynch is going to be a mislynch.

Serious question: has anyone ever apologized to scum for voting them?

As for yogsloth's voting behaviour: yes, Yogs should explain his votes better. He might well be scum and hide behind his usual MO of just throwing out conclusions without much explanation how he got there. But then again he has (annoyingly) used this MO as Town in the past. And your behaviour is consistent with being scum as well in spite of your explanations. I'm less sure of your scumminess than before, but for now you remain the best pick.

@Yogs: could you please explain more detailed why Bookwyrm is so scummy in your eyes? What makes him a better pick than Microfish or yourself, for example? I agree with Micro that it is hard to follow your reasoning on that.
You accused him of scumminess because he reacted calmly (and maybe a bit sarcastically) to your suspicion (Post 310), which is a quite weak argument. And then you said that he is wolfy. But I would like to understand WHY you think that he is wolfy.

Umm what? Probably on accident? Like, “I’m sorry if I’m wrong, but I think you’re mafia”. That’s probably happened. I’ve been mafia and apologized in scumchat for bussing a buddy, but that’s probably not what you’re going for here.

Anyway.

Those that have played with me know that I usually vote first and explain later. Which is to say, I do explain, but most people want it more spelled out, even though I feel like I already have, and I get bored typing out big huge wall posts these days.

I’m still not gonna write a huge post

But basically, over the years, my scumhunting has gotten refined to where what I’m looking for is what I think of as organic flow of thought. Player A sees this, says that, something new happens, his thoughts change, new ideas, thinking things through…. That’s Town.

Player B’s thoughts don’t react to theadflow, they skip around, they read in ISO as if their thoughts are disjointed, their reasoning is forced, the whole flow just isn’t organic. Maybe it’s hard to describe. But that’s Mafia.

Book has a bunch of non-game related posts

And then look at these two consecutive posts:

And then, his very next post:

With nothing in-between. He directly goes from “town vibe from dogmouseus” to voting her to put her at L-1. That’s not an organic thought switch. That’s putting a Townie on a runaway wagon headed to extinction.

His very next post, instead of developing this change on Maus, is an overly-long mechanics discussion that in Mafia terms we call “IIOA”, or “Information Instead of Analysis”

Then he starts pushing for a role claim

And then he skips all meaningful discussion entirely

His one post Day 2 at least has some meat to it, but it still seems to cast shade on everybody all at once

Ok I wrote a huge post

Are you happy now

i'm a town psychoanalyst. i investigated yogsloth and got this result (modified to not quote the PM)

it is synonyms with (3 modifiers from the list)

online optional/sometimes deadly

rhymes with (bolded bits have been changed)

fretworked Depositionally thunderous.

Look at the modifier list in post 1

I cannot see any modifier that would give me false results.

so: Searching Post 1 and quoting the definitions

he's in a chat with other fretworked folks

fretworked-- deposiitional-- thunderous-- I don't see how i can have been fooled into a false result, and given that result i don't see how he can be anything but mafia scum

what absurd pile of tosh is this

I can assure you I do not have any other chat link, and my action does not kill my target, as Mr. Wyrm is still alive

did you not read "conditionally"?--actions fail under certain condish? what do you claim to find from Wyrm? if you say "anything" you also have to explain how you could get results without him dying.

Assume I'm not lying (you know I'm not @yogs) and got those results. Someone please explain to me from the modifier list how my results could have been faked/tricked.

Give me any valid scenario from the Roles & Modifier in which i could have gotten those results [I did] and yogs would not be scum?

@lift i deliberately played slightly scummy (not hard for me to do, per those who play with me all the time) in order to avoid the N1 NK

And yeah, i felt bad for what i saw as TvT violence but was willing to vote the one who was in the wrong there. Still felt bad because i was thinking it was likely town but i had to do my part to clear up the mess after direct appeal to focus on anything or anyone else didn't work.

So either microfish is mafia intentionally blowing his cover just to get me yeeted, or he’s town and he’s this: However if it’s the latter and the “randomly” selected results are access to chat and action kills target – both of which would have to be mafia – then I am going to be hella pissed off

That would cross the line from usual janky GOG setup to outright mod hostility

I don’t want to think about that

I got no result

I contemplating just holstering entirely after the dogmaus flip and not sending in any action, but in the end decided a chance at something is better than guaranteed nothing

And then just went “yeah, figures, of course”


So what do now, fish

If this is a mafia play, what’s the payoff, you yeet me today and you’re gone tomorrow

Which would take the game to F3

What do we not know

if you are in fact town, i believe that "imaginative" randomly rolls results based on Joe's previous games and modifiers.
I do not believe for one minute that Joe handpicks modifiers or who gets what role--he's said as much in previous games.

hmm. the two flips so far each have one modifier. that means you are scum (or mason?), conditional, or kill targets.

--offtopic--i might be taking my dad to the hospital for bad gallbladder emergency. idk how long or how severe it is or if i will have to ask for a sub or not. if you want, please pray for him.

Yes, I am and your observation of flow has merit. Because you are right: that is the main difference. Town has to develop their reads. Sure, reads change and they have to to adapt to a developing situation. But town reads grow natural from the process of information gathering. While scum 'reads' are fake to start with and start with an excess of information that doesn't change much over the course of the game.

Hmm. I'll have to re-read Bookwyrm looking for that flow or the absence thereof. And then do the same with Micro. Sounds like work. *sigh*


Because it's the three modifiers that were already discussed. We got conditional in the flip(s) and I explained in Post 399 specifically that scum will have networked and murderous. That you now pretend that you couldn't have faked this, doesn't increase my faith in the veracity of your read.

Don't get me wrong. That you 'got' the same reads as I described isn't suspicious. It's just how Joe describes scum in this game. But that you say that you couldn't have known them without actually getting the read is false.

Also you being the one Psychoanalyst whose Nightaction doesn't fail seems convenient. I was fully expecting that no one got a read because we didn't know our Conditions yet. Sure, it's possible that you have a different Condition from 'half' and 'can only succeed if no one else in the team acts'. But it is also possible that you lie.

Basically now we have a standoff. We have a direct conflict between Yogs and you. We have to lynch one of you and if the flip turns up Town, we lynch the other Tomorrow. I assume we are at 5 vs 2 currently. So with a mis-lynch we will be at LyLo tomorrow, but we'll have a relatively sure lynch. Because I agree with Yogs that giving you a false read would be too bad bastard modding. I rather think that one of you two is scum.

But the big question is actually: what would scum-Micro gain by a false claim? 1 for 1 is good for Town. On the other hand, it all feels fake. You being the only working PR when all others get a Failure on their reads. Your claim that you couldn't have faked that read. So by feeling I would say you are scum. By 'what would scum do' logic, we would have to lynch Yogs first.

Hmm. I have to ponder this.

unvote

@all: basically I am up to lynch either and I think for Today our choice should be one of the two.