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Jonttu: [...]
4. Well that's funny since I did manage to kill the guardian in ICE-X with emg or mirv+emg merculite missiles, I just sacrificed a battleship by self destructing it next to the guardian on one side, depleting its shield on that side, and then parking another battleship in the same spot and destroying it with it alone. So at least I didn't need pulson missiles there.

On the other hand the very fact that you allow "funky" ways to get ahead in the game, and take advantage of these "imbalances" in the game, is one of the things that isn't my cup of tea but I understand.

5. I'd be interested to hear if there's like a rundown of the stat changes in that mod compared to original/1.50/ICE

6. Wasn't able to find depth386 [...]
about 4. well, i suspect this is just a misrepresentation of the challenge, unlikely you arrived at Orion with only 2 battleships and kill the Guardian the way as described since 1 BB explosion doesn't break Guardian's shield unless you had a quantum detonator and some other end-game tech like phase-cloak to get close safely, which would mean you were very deep in the game turn-wise, or you came with a larger fleet than 2 BB's. anyway, mercs indeed do 1 damage to the Guardian (14 dmg - class X - hard shield), so you'd need to get at least 30 actual hits from at least 8 MIRV EMG mercs. btw, I called this strat a 'funky way', because it's not the most efficient route to victory and you need to walk a very specific tech path to pull it off early. so it's not about imbalances, it's about balances, meaning previously the Guardian (with WAJ fitted + higher initiative from Augmented Engines and EMG very high in tech tree) was harder to take down, which made that path even less optimal.

about 5. VDC has an elaborate spreadsheet describing changes made. you can find it under 150/mods/VDC/docs.

about 6. check: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/master-of-orion-2-unofficial-patch.562652/page-18#post-15523107
Post edited 4 days ago by Rocco.40
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Jonttu: [...]
4. Well that's funny since I did manage to kill the guardian in ICE-X with emg or mirv+emg merculite missiles, I just sacrificed a battleship by self destructing it next to the guardian on one side, depleting its shield on that side, and then parking another battleship in the same spot and destroying it with it alone. So at least I didn't need pulson missiles there.

On the other hand the very fact that you allow "funky" ways to get ahead in the game, and take advantage of these "imbalances" in the game, is one of the things that isn't my cup of tea but I understand.

5. I'd be interested to hear if there's like a rundown of the stat changes in that mod compared to original/1.50/ICE

6. Wasn't able to find depth386 [...]
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Rocco.40: about 4. well, i suspect this is just a misrepresentation of the challenge, unlikely you arrived at Orion with only 2 battleships and kill the Guardian the way as described since 1 BB explosion doesn't break Guardian's shield unless you had a quantum detonator and some other end-game tech like phase-cloak to get close safely, which would mean you were very deep in the game turn-wise, or you came with a larger fleet than 2 BB's. anyway, mercs indeed do 1 damage to the Guardian (14 dmg - class X - hard shield), so you'd need to get at least 30 actual hits from at least 8 MIRV EMG mercs. btw, I called this strat a 'funky way', because it's not the most efficient route to victory and you need to walk a very specific tech path to pull it off early. so it's not about imbalances, it's about balances, meaning previously the Guardian (with WAJ fitted + higher initiative from Augmented Engines and EMG very high in tech tree) was harder to take down, which made that path even less optimal.

about 5. VDC has an elaborate spreadsheet describing changes made. you can find it under 150/mods/VDC/docs.

about 6. check: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/master-of-orion-2-unofficial-patch.562652/page-18#post-15523107
Yea it might be that I'm forgetting something or missed some details regarding the EMG+merc vs Guardian thing. Maybe I had one or two officers with damage bonuses or something.

I do distinctly remember 1 battleship taking out the shield on one side of the Guardian by self-destructing. I think it did between 140 and 150 damage. Anyways I can't remember exactly. It also didn't have a quantum detonator on it.


I know there's the patch update notes and everything but it isn't so easy to compare VDC stats and gameplay changes to non-VDC but anyways...


Regarding that link to depth386 and what the mod is like, thanks a lot! This mod is basically exactly what I'm looking for! I have to test this mod out. The creator at least seems to want to address the exact same grievances I have with other mods or stock MoO2 (or whatever you call it, vanilla? unmodded MoO2? standard MoO2?) So that is GREAT news!


Can you read and respond to the other stuff in my post when/if you have the time?
Thanks a lot.
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Jonttu: Yea it might be that I'm forgetting something or missed some details regarding the EMG+merc vs Guardian thing. Maybe I had one or two officers with damage bonuses or something.

I do distinctly remember 1 battleship taking out the shield on one side of the Guardian by self-destructing. I think it did between 140 and 150 damage. Anyways I can't remember exactly. It also didn't have a quantum detonator on it.

I know there's the patch update notes and everything but it isn't so easy to compare VDC stats and gameplay changes to non-VDC but anyways...

Regarding that link to depth386 and what the mod is like, thanks a lot! This mod is basically exactly what I'm looking for! I have to test this mod out. The creator at least seems to want to address the exact same grievances I have with other mods or stock MoO2 (or whatever you call it, vanilla? unmodded MoO2? standard MoO2?) So that is GREAT news!

Can you read and respond to the other stuff in my post when/if you have the time?
Thanks a lot.
BB exploding for 140-150 damage sounds about right. However the ICE Guardian can soak up to 300 damage on a side.... something wrong with distinct memory, I'd say. :)

Didn't respond to the other stuff coz I had not much constructive to say about it, but since you ask explicitly:
- No clue what's the improvement of a flat pop growth over current system.
- No-production-stockpiling is not a good idea. If you had proposed halting of a production item that keeps stored production, and when switching back you continue from where you halted it, then it would be something. Plain loss of production is just terrible. It makes the game less fun and promotes risk aversion. Also, I guess under your system you should abolish buying a product with money too, since money acts as a form of stored production in MOO2 too, just not localized like stored PP's.
- Spying system you describe resembles that of MOO1, which had aging of reports. Dunno why devs decided not to implement it in MOO2, it would have been nice indeed, but it's not in there.
Post edited 2 days ago by Rocco.40