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monkeydelarge: I have a bad habit of posting too soon. I'm all for people's freedom but having the freedom to behave like a uncivilized beast doesn't mean people should make use of that freedom. People should use their freedom to act like decent human beings who don't waste oxygen. Of course, taking away someone's right to attack every single "Christian" they come across without actually getting to know each one of them is not an option unless we want live in a prison type country.
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evilnancyreagan: I as well wish people would be more responsible with their freedoms but, the "uncivilized beast" should be just as free to speak as any "decent human being". This is the basis of egalitarianism that the modern world is founded on, that all men are created equal. To deny one freedom is to deny all freedoms.

I waited ten minutes and refreshed the page four times. way to keep edits down to a minimum

;)
I disagree. I think the world would be a better place if people stopped acting like huge stupid asshats towards other people. When people act like huge stupid asshats and attack people for no good reason...there are negative consequences for everyone. When someone automatically attacks someone after discovering that person is a "Christian" or that person is a "Muslim" or that person is from this country or likes this kind of music etc, there are negative consequences for everyone... Don't believe me? Why do you think there were so many school shootings in the past? But if that is the price we have to pay for freedom, then so be it.
Post edited May 17, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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TStael: But, awalterj, you have a village dialect, do you not? Or maybe you are Swiss French or Italian?

An asian friend of mine works in Olten having the sole Chinese language skill that her company needs...

...but her colleagues would rather repeat louder and slower the Swiss German Dialect they might coincidentally know, as opposed to Hoch Deutsch they should all know, and she would understand. What say you to that?
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awalterj: I'm a firm believer in adapting to the environment and not vice versa. Now in the workplace - if I was working with a Chinese coworker I would ask them if they prefer me to switch to High German of course,.
Wenn Sie wollen, vielleicht... Hoch Deutsch ist auch einer dialekt, aber den beste werstanden in der Welt. Correct me pray! ;-)

I should point out that my friend actually has asked the colleagues to speak in generic German - but gets slower and louder village dialect repeated back. This I think can be taken as a form of bullying, as everyone in CH shall know high German.
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CatintheHeat: I am transgender and did run into problems while transitioning. That in-between phase can really be tough. The worst thing I ran into near the beginning of living full time is a man who just couldn't figure out if I was a man or woman, and asked. I just rolled my eyes and walked away. No answer could have satisfied him anyway.

Attitude can make all the different. I am confident in who I am and treat everyone kindly. And that is what I get mostly in return. It also helps I live in a progressive city that is diverse. Acceptance seems to be the rule. I don't know if that is what I'd find elsewhere.
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TStael: I think I quite see what you mean, because I only once have seen a trans-gender person (coincidentally) in the in-between phase in corporate setting.

This was in the building common cafeteria when I was a trainee +10 years ago, and I remember thinking that this person was most brave, because most likely she shall never be judged upfront for her competency or character without additional layer of judgement. And she most likely worked for the Statistics Agency of Finland - not really a cut-throat competition type of company.

I know I must have implicitly met more persons not riding the top of the Gauss curve during my working life, and pity that because I think it reflects mainly how rigid the labour market is.

How is it with you - have you faith can you work on any type of job you should like? Or do you just not apply to some jobs, possibly?
I was kind of lucky. I was able to transition on the job. Plus I worked in book production so I had this big production room all to myself. The worst part was my co-workers couldn't let go the former me and had a hard time with my new gender. For 11 months I was not allowed to use the women's toilet, and it was dangerous to use the men's. So I had to leave the building and use the toilets in the restaurants in the area. The timing had to be right. Twice I had to go home and change.

Finally they allowed me to use the female facility after the Transgender Law Center write them a nasty letter. They helped me pro bono. Wonderful organization.

I live in Arizona, a red state, so it's really conservative. I live in Tucson though and we are liberal, a blue dot in a red state. We have had protection laws for transgender citizens since '99. Employers can fire you just for being LGBT. At least you can hide being gay if you want, but if you transgender, most of the time you need to stay in the closet. Although I will have to say it is getting better, especially in my home town.
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evilnancyreagan: I as well wish people would be more responsible with their freedoms but, the "uncivilized beast" should be just as free to speak as any "decent human being". This is the basis of egalitarianism that the modern world is founded on, that all men are created equal. To deny one freedom is to deny all freedoms.

I waited ten minutes and refreshed the page four times. way to keep edits down to a minimum

;)
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monkeydelarge: I disagree. I think the world would be a better place if people stopped acting like huge stupid asshats towards other people. When people act like huge stupid asshats and attack people for no good reason...there are negative consequences for everyone. When someone automatically attacks someone after discovering that person is a "Christian" or that person is a "Muslim" or that person is from this country or likes this kind of music etc, there are negative consequences for everyone... Don't believe me? Why do you think there were so many school shootings in the past? But if that is the price we have to pay for freedom, then so be it.
so, do you agree or disagree? I'm not sure here.

Yeah, It bums me out when dumb people say hateful things but, when we take away the freedom of one person we slide down a slippery slope where it's ok to take any freedoms away from any people. You can't have a constitution built around "All men are created equal (except for haters - HATERZ GONNA HATE AMIRITE?)"

I said it once but, I need to repeat myself: if we decide it's acceptable to deny one freedom, what is there stopping us from denying any and all other freedoms? There is no gradient to freedom, you are free or you are not.



you were not kidding when you said that you really do like the edit button.
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Wishbone: No matter what, I think you'll find that bigoted idiots exist everywhere. However, when dealing with specific kinds of bigotry, homophobia for instance, I think it makes a huge difference where in the world you are.
Indeed it does. And I do think we all could be responsible to make violent bigotry a shameful affair.

It is still pretty ok to be as low born as a Finn, lol, almost anywhere. Yet, somewhere else it might mean the skull caved in with a hammer when one should be sentimentally cum politically cum sexually deviant.
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monkeydelarge: I disagree. I think the world would be a better place if people stopped acting like huge stupid asshats towards other people. When people act like huge stupid asshats and attack people for no good reason...there are negative consequences for everyone. When someone automatically attacks someone after discovering that person is a "Christian" or that person is a "Muslim" or that person is from this country or likes this kind of music etc, there are negative consequences for everyone... Don't believe me? Why do you think there were so many school shootings in the past? But if that is the price we have to pay for freedom, then so be it.
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evilnancyreagan: so, do you agree or disagree? I'm not sure here.

Yeah, It bums me out when dumb people say hateful things but, when we take away the freedom of one person we slide down a slippery slope where it's ok to take any freedoms away from any people. You can't have a constitution built around "All men are created equal (except for haters - HATERZ GONNA HATE AMIRITE?)"

I said it once but, I need to repeat myself: if we decide it's acceptable to deny one freedom, what is there stopping us from denying any and all other freedoms? There is no gradient to freedom, you are free or you are not.

you were not kidding when you said that you really do like the edit button.
I agree with you, it seems. I'm just saying stupid people shouldn't abuse their freedom but I'm not suggesting we do anything about it. For example, people should stop bullying people for stupid reasons but I'm against any anti bullying law because that puts us on a dark road to where, there is no freedom.
Post edited May 17, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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evilnancyreagan: so, do you agree or disagree? I'm not sure here.

Yeah, It bums me out when dumb people say hateful things but, when we take away the freedom of one person we slide down a slippery slope where it's ok to take any freedoms away from any people. You can't have a constitution built around "All men are created equal (except for haters - HATERZ GONNA HATE AMIRITE?)"

I said it once but, I need to repeat myself: if we decide it's acceptable to deny one freedom, what is there stopping us from denying any and all other freedoms? There is no gradient to freedom, you are free or you are not.

you were not kidding when you said that you really do like the edit button.
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monkeydelarge: I agree with you, it seems. I'm just saying stupid people shouldn't abuse their freedom but I'm not suggesting we do anything about it. For example, people should stop bullying people for stupid reasons but I'm against any anti bullying law because that puts us on a dark road to where, there is no freedom.
But you can do something about it; lead by example and effect change in the world immediately around you.
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monkeydelarge: I agree with you, it seems. I'm just saying stupid people shouldn't abuse their freedom but I'm not suggesting we do anything about it. For example, people should stop bullying people for stupid reasons but I'm against any anti bullying law because that puts us on a dark road to where, there is no freedom.
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evilnancyreagan: But you can do something about it; lead by example and effect change in the world immediately around you.
I don't think that is enough to make those stupid people take the time to get to know people before attacking. It is much easier for their brains to think all Christians are like this, all Muslims are like this, all people who dress a certain way are like this, all Eastern Europeans are like this, all gay people are like this, all fat people are like this, all gamers are like this etc... Much easier for their brains to put someone in a box 5 seconds after meeting that someone...
Post edited May 17, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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CatintheHeat: Finally they allowed me to use the female facility after the Transgender Law Center write them a nasty letter. They helped me pro bono. Wonderful organization.

I live in Arizona, a red state, so it's really conservative. I live in Tucson though and we are liberal, a blue dot in a red state. We have had protection laws for transgender citizens since '99. Employers can fire you just for being LGBT. At least you can hide being gay if you want, but if you transgender, most of the time you need to stay in the closet. Although I will have to say it is getting better, especially in my home town.
I worked in Scottsdale, AZ, myself for about two years - and visited Biosphere cum Tuscon during that time, :-D

From European perspective, though, the topic of arranging toilet facilities for extremely fat persons would probably meet with greater scrutiny than gender assignment of these facilities, Methinks,
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evilnancyreagan: But you can do something about it; lead by example and effect change in the world immediately around you.
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monkeydelarge: I don't think that is enough to make those stupid people take the time to get to know people before attacking. It is much easier for their brains to think all Christians are like this, all Muslims are like this, all people who dress a certain way are like this, all Eastern Europeans are like this, all gay people are like this, all fat people are like this, all gamers are like this etc... Much easier for their brains to put someone in a box 5 seconds after meeting that someone...
doing nothing is the easiest thing to do but,

“Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty… I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well.” - Teddy R.
Post edited May 18, 2014 by evilnancyreagan
Do you need outside factors involved to qualify for the conversation? I can cover both ends of it without anyone else's involvement, that's why I ask.
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Wishbone: I think it makes a huge difference where in the world you are.
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tinyE: In this country it can be a matter of zip code, and no that's not a smart ass tinyE post, I'm serious. I've been all over the States and found myself shocked at how some of these places actually wave the same flag. Growing up in St. Louis it was really screwed up because in one neighborhood something like homophobia would actually be encouraged whereas a couple of miles down the road it was Greenwich Village 1970.
Ah, well, when I worked in AZ, I noticed quite a pronounced racial separation of work-opportunities and living areas between, say, South Phoenix and Northern Scottsdale.

I still hold a deep respect for the Mexican workers who would take the south-town bus to Frank Lloyd Wright, and walk from thence.

With my European naïveté I tried public transport for a couple of days, but realized very soon that one really needs a car there!!
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Johnmourby: Yes I know the feeling. I have Asperger's Syndrome and while obviously that isn't a visible difference some people just seem to be able to smell that you're not normal, I think it's behavioural ticks that I wouldn't notice that alert some people.

Compared to most I've had a good ride so far. But I know what it's like to get spat on for being different.

I'm also a furry fan (Fan being the key word. I have never owned a fur suit or done kinky things in them.... yet) and the hatred people have for furries astounds me. "Furries ruin everything!" "Oh wait.........
Hum... do not hate those persons too much, if you can avoid it, because it is very hard for purportedly "normal" person to love someone with a mental disorder, cum tick. I think tender human relations need to have an inherent trust, a feedback system.

I think of my most beloved aunt here, rather sadly.

As to furry fan topic, I think the haters are just potentially jealous of Chewbacca themselves, eh! :-p
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CatintheHeat: ynew gender.
New gender? You can't change your gender. You can change how you look though. Guess that's what you mean.

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CatintheHeat: For 11 months I was not allowed to use the women's toilet, and it was dangerous to use the men's. So I had to leave the building and use the toilets in the restaurants in the area. The timing had to be right. Twice I had to go home and change.

Finally they allowed me to use the female facility after the Transgender Law Center write them a nasty letter. They helped me pro bono. Wonderful organization.
That's stupid. Bathrooms are segregated for a reason. And if society determines that reason is no longer sufficient it should just do away with the segregation, not allow some women in the men's restroom and some men in the women's restroom.
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CatintheHeat: ynew gender.
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Immoli: New gender? You can't change your gender. You can change how you look though. Guess that's what you mean.

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CatintheHeat: For 11 months I was not allowed to use the women's toilet, and it was dangerous to use the men's. So I had to leave the building and use the toilets in the restaurants in the area. The timing had to be right. Twice I had to go home and change.

Finally they allowed me to use the female facility after the Transgender Law Center write them a nasty letter. They helped me pro bono. Wonderful organization.
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Immoli: That's stupid. Bathrooms are segregated for a reason. And if society determines that reason is no longer sufficient it should just do away with the segregation, not allow some women in the men's restroom and some men in the women's restroom.
Sounds like they changed their gender. What, they're not female if they can't have kids? Kids tend to be malignant godsdamned crotch spawn in the first place, so they're better off. A superior version, if you will. And if the person is willing to undergo the levels of grief and bullshit involved in changing themselves, grief and bullshit they should NOT have to deal with in the first place but have to due to narrowminded judgmental motherfuckers? Then they've earned the right to use the toilet. They didn't get the easy path, the default path. They had to suffer for it.
Post edited May 18, 2014 by CarrionCrow