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General discussionGOG's Descsion Not To Offer Hatred(193 posts)(193 posts)
(193 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 27, 2015
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tinyE: Not that I'm complaining, but how is it my rep is dropping and monkey's isn't? :P
I'm down five since I told him off and falling fast.
That's how the power of Hatred threads works. Someone insults you, and you loose rep.
Posted May 27, 2015
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Fenixp: it has been established that GOG does not refuse games based on their political correctness.
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mobutu: This is an extremely interesting case because hatred might be the first ;) and I have to admit I'm eager to see how the saga ends.
Just because other people have made Hatred a game piece in the game of politics doesn't mean that any opinion about Hatred is instantly a political one. If Hatred disgusts me and I express that disgust that doesn't mean I'm taking a political stand. Nor would I be taking a political stand by saying that Hatred is the game of the year.

So GOG deciding to not release the game does not mean that they are deciding to do so based on their understanding of political correctness. They might be or they might not. They might, and by they I could mean every single employee and contractor associated with GOG, all the way down to their newest intern, just think that Hatred is not a game that they want to be associated with or deal with in any way.

There are a couple of issues to discuss here and maybe several different forums should be made:

1. Does GOG have freedom of choice?

If you answered No 1, then go to #2 and then #3 and skip #4:

If you answered Yes, then go to #4 and skip #2 and #3:

2. How should we restrict their freedom of choice? We should make a list of rules that they must follow at all times and against which any new game can be compared to determine whether or not GOG must release said game on their platform and in their store.

3. Should Hatred, when ran through the list of rules composed in item #2, be released on GOG?

4. How do we punish GOG for choosing a path different than our choice? Probably, given the relatively free market societies we live in, we should let them know with our money how we stand.
Posted May 28, 2015
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monkeydelarge: Yes, arstechnica is secretly owned by Destructive Creations.
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darkwolf777: Don't be ridiculous. You know damn well he's referring to the quote in the article. You know, the one you pulled from the article to quote, yourself. The source of that quote is the developer of the game, ie. not exactly unbiased.
It's best to never assume things like reason and an ability to construct a coherent argument when it comes to monkeydelarge.

Having a fit and completely contradicting himself - yes

Displaying an ability to put together reasonable conclusions and avoiding hitting himself in the head with things - no
Posted May 28, 2015
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RWarehall: I'm am sorry, but you are wrong, you clearly are ignorant of the actual meaning of the word censorship. Fact!
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RWarehall: You are just flat out wrong and are clearly ignorant of the actual meaning of the word censorship. Being a shop is meaningless to the discussion, what is meaningful is the actual reason this game will not be here.

In fact, calling others a "moron" for using a word correctly is both ironic and moronic, by the way...
Why did you write two completely separate replies to the same post?
Post edited May 28, 2015 by SirPrimalform
Posted May 28, 2015
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RWarehall: I'm am sorry, but you are wrong, you clearly are ignorant of the actual meaning of the word censorship. Fact!
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Breja: Shouting "fact!" at the end of a sentence does not actually make it one. And it is you who are wrong. Everyone has the right to decide what to sell and what not to in his own store. If it was illegal to sell Hatred, that would be censorship. It's not. It's a choice. One GOG has the right to make, just as the games developers have the right to make such a game and sell it through any store that will agree to do so, or through their own means, and people have the right to buy the game or not to buy it. That is freedom. Not forcing someone to sell something they don't want to sell because that would be more convenient for some people.
You don't know what censorship means and those reading your posts are dumber for it. Fact!
GoG's right to decide if they carry a game has nothing to do with the definition of censorship. You are just an ignorant fool who likes to read your own posts. If GoG chose not to carry the game based on Hatred's immoral content, then they are guilty of censorship. Plain and simple.

"Censorship, the suppression of words, images, or ideas that are "offensive," happens whenever some people succeed in imposing their personal political or moral values on others. Censorship can be carried out by the government as well as private pressure groups."
Straight from the ACLU...

Thus, if GoG refused Hatred for being offensive, they are guilty of censorship cut and dry...

And to all the other people who are seriously misinformed...
It doesn't matter if the agent of censorship is public or private, proof above. You people are creating goal posts which do not exist. In the McCarthy era in the United States, movie directors were blacklisted because of their supposed ties to Communism. They were not allowed to make any movies. This era has been called a bad day for censorship, yet no government agency was involved. The film studios enforced the blacklists. Most of the censorship in this country comes from private industry, such as Clear Channel who owns a lot of radio stations choosing not to play songs country wide because of their content, to Walmart demanding censored versions of rap music else those albums be banned from their stores. The Motion Picture Association of America routinely censors scenes out of movies and is a private organization. All of these things are censorship. Not my fault so many of you are so poorly educated....

Now, I'm not even saying necessarily that GoG isn't releasing it for that reason, I'm not actually sure. But so many of you don't know shit about the words you use, and are just here to cause trouble. Idiots like Breja...

And to all you de-rep trolls. I feel so sorry for you all and your pin dicks. All you assholes can just go fuck yourselves, since if you even have a lady, they are looking for a way out! You are downrepping the people speaking the truth, which makes all of you uninformed fools.


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SirPrimalform: Why did you write two completely separate replies to the same post?
Because GoG "ate" my first post, I even refreshed the thread and it didn't appear. About 10 minutes after my second post, it appeared somehow...
Post edited May 28, 2015 by RWarehall
Posted May 28, 2015
Soooo POSTAL is right, but HATRED no?


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amok: So... you are saying that if Hatred gets a good user rating it will be censorship. But for a game like Machines at War 3, which has a positive user rating, it is not censorship.... because it is not controversial enough? I still do not understand how this work...
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mobutu: Yea, because Hatred gets outside of the norm, of the established boundaries. This is why some people are very vocal against it. But in the end its just a game ... or atleast this is my take on the matter ;)

And also, look at hotline and postal, two games carried by gog that get compared a lot with hatred.
They are not clear, they let the gamer guess or imagine the violence inside. Heck, hotline is pixelated enough and the gamer mostly imagine how a takedown is performed, he-s not seeing it per se.
But hatred is extremely clear, in-your-face picture-clear, doesn't let any imagination possible ... and this got a lot of people angry.
REALLY? I remember being seriously disgusted after playing POSTAL 2 for some hours, and pee, kill, burn, and be as evil as possible ... seriously, I didn´t want to play any violent game or see a violent movie in weeks...
Post edited May 28, 2015 by YaTEdiGo
Posted May 28, 2015
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Fenixp: it has been established that GOG does not refuse games based on their political correctness.
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mobutu: This is an extremely interesting case because hatred might be the first ;) and I have to admit I'm eager to see how the saga ends.
The main problem, though, is that even if there is a good user rating or a good review rating, you can still not infer the reasons why gOg do not want to host the game. There can be several reasons, neither of them having to do with the quality of the game.

For example:
"The game is good, but we cant" - due to the price point
"The game is good, but we cant" - because you insist on using key activation
"The game is good, but we cant" - because it ran sluggishly on some of our test computers, we are afraid it is not optimised enough for all systems
"The game is good, but we cant" - because the lead designer stole Marcin's girlfriend in Fifth class
And so on. Neither of these reasons have much to do with the quality of the game, and neither is political. But all are just as valid.

And a note on player reviews - I am afraid at least 50% of user reviews would be in the line of: "I can set babies on fire!! LOLZ! Would burn babies again. 10/10" so not sure how those will mean good quality?
Post edited May 28, 2015 by amok
Posted May 30, 2015
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Fenixp: To be fair, to me, these instances just prove that GOG has no political reason to keep such games from being released. They carry AO games, they carry games like Postal, they carry some GTA clones. What that says to me is that GOG has no history of refusing controversial games for political reasons at all. Given this tendency, it seems far more likely they have refused Hatred for technical, quality of pricing reasons.
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monkeydelarge: "Destructive went into slightly more detail in a Facebook reply regarding GOG's decision, saying that the service expressed interest in distributing the game and "even tested it, and said that the game is good, but 'we can't.' That's the whole story." Later in the same thread, Destructive says, "we really wanted to be on GOG, but shit happens."
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/hatred-developer-says-gog-refuses-to-distribute-the-game/
Well, there's one sad truth about the world that I have learned recently. Basically, obnoxious, entitled people get their way in life. For example there are people who write complaints on store workers because they don't smile at them like they are their best friends or are hitting on them or something like that.
These obnoxious entitled people scare enterprisers into pandering to them, no matter the cost to their employees or to customers that may feel uncomfortable to that sort of thing.

Refusal to distribute Hatred despite finding it interesting and good is an obvious sign of intimidation by the game censorship lover clique which seems to especially want to censor Hatred. Sign of fear that they will boycott G.O.G. on the grounds of carrying Hatred. Of course it assumes that those who would like to buy Hatred in G.O.G. and those who don't care about Hatred but hate censorship won't react with sanctions of their own.
Since G.O.G. has shown that it pays to be obnoxious and entitled, I can't cede the power to the censorship lover clique and will regretfully have to put a one year boycott on G.O.G.

This way whenever they choose to pander to the game censor clique or not, it's a lose/lose choice instead of a win/lose. Of course, it's unfortunate, but sadly it's how this world works.
Posted May 30, 2015
Edit: Nevermind. But anyway, I'm pretty sure a lot of companies are going to avoid it regardless because of negative press. Steam tried to do it. The ESRB gave it an AO rating in the states so all US Retailers will never carry it. You always have options, I would say it's not worth getting upset over.
Post edited May 30, 2015 by QC
Posted May 30, 2015
So reviews and impressions are starting to roll in for Hatred, and it's pretty much exactly what I thought it'd be, a mediocre isometric shooter. Some interesting physics and destructible environments, but otherwise a boring, repetitive game. And apparently terribly optimized with framerate issues even on a GTX 980, with almost no difference between "Low" and "Ultra" settings.

So you guys still chomping at the bit for Hatred, because reasons, have fun. I'll play some more Hotline Miami and continue ignoring the game I knew would be "meh" the moment they started feeding the controversy to build hype.

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Perturabo.235: Refusal to distribute Hatred despite finding it interesting and good is an obvious sign of intimidation by the game censorship lover clique which seems to especially want to censor Hatred.
Oh please.
Posted May 30, 2015
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monkeydelarge: "Destructive went into slightly more detail in a Facebook reply regarding GOG's decision, saying that the service expressed interest in distributing the game and "even tested it, and said that the game is good, but 'we can't.' That's the whole story." Later in the same thread, Destructive says, "we really wanted to be on GOG, but shit happens."
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/05/hatred-developer-says-gog-refuses-to-distribute-the-game/
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Perturabo.235: Well, there's one sad truth about the world that I have learned recently. Basically, obnoxious, entitled people get their way in life. For example there are people who write complaints on store workers because they don't smile at them like they are their best friends or are hitting on them or something like that.
These obnoxious entitled people scare enterprisers into pandering to them, no matter the cost to their employees or to customers that may feel uncomfortable to that sort of thing.

Refusal to distribute Hatred despite finding it interesting and good is an obvious sign of intimidation by the game censorship lover clique which seems to especially want to censor Hatred. Sign of fear that they will boycott G.O.G. on the grounds of carrying Hatred. Of course it assumes that those who would like to buy Hatred in G.O.G. and those who don't care about Hatred but hate censorship won't react with sanctions of their own.
Since G.O.G. has shown that it pays to be obnoxious and entitled, I can't cede the power to the censorship lover clique and will regretfully have to put a one year boycott on G.O.G.

This way whenever they choose to pander to the game censor clique or not, it's a lose/lose choice instead of a win/lose. Of course, it's unfortunate, but sadly it's how this world works.
This might be the single dumbest thing that I have ever read. Ever. Congratulations. You've managed to come off like a drama queen and a conspiracy-obsessed lunatic all at once.

Show me these threats of 'intimidation' from some secret cabal of censorship fanatics. Oh, that's right, it's all implied! You can't see it unless you're looking for it, right? Oh, but people threatening to leave GOG if they don't decide to carry Hatred...that somehow isn't a threat, right? Somehow, that manages to be perfectly benign because REASONS.

Loosen your tin foil hat. You'll probably be more comfortable.
Posted May 30, 2015
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Crassmaster: Loosen your tin foil hat. You'll probably be more comfortable.
What, and allow more blood to their brain? That's what the Feminazi World Conspiracy wants.
Posted May 30, 2015
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Crassmaster: Loosen your tin foil hat. You'll probably be more comfortable.
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SirPrimalform: What, and allow more blood to their brain? That's what the Feminazi World Conspiracy wants.
Well, you've let the cat out of the bag now! Dammit, we've worked too hard to have our vast conspiracy fall apart because of this!!
Post edited May 30, 2015 by Crassmaster
Posted May 30, 2015
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Crassmaster: This might be the single dumbest thing that I have ever read. Ever. Congratulations. You've managed to come off like a drama queen and a conspiracy-obsessed lunatic all at once.

Show me these threats of 'intimidation' from some secret cabal of censorship fanatics. Oh, that's right, it's all implied! You can't see it unless you're looking for it, right? Oh, but people threatening to leave GOG if they don't decide to carry Hatred...that somehow isn't a threat, right? Somehow, that manages to be perfectly benign because REASONS.

Loosen your tin foil hat. You'll probably be more comfortable.
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Post edited May 30, 2015 by monkeydelarge
Posted May 30, 2015
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darkwolf777: So reviews and impressions are starting to roll in for Hatred, and it's pretty much exactly what I thought it'd be, a mediocre isometric shooter. Some interesting physics and destructible environments, but otherwise a boring, repetitive game. And apparently terribly optimized with framerate issues even on a GTX 980, with almost no difference between "Low" and "Ultra" settings.

So you guys still chomping at the bit for Hatred, because reasons, have fun. I'll play some more Hotline Miami and continue ignoring the game I knew would be "meh" the moment they started feeding the controversy to build hype.

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Perturabo.235: Refusal to distribute Hatred despite finding it interesting and good is an obvious sign of intimidation by the game censorship lover clique which seems to especially want to censor Hatred.
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darkwolf777: Oh please.
Taste when it comes to video games is subjective, you know. One man's "mediocre" isometic shooter can be a another man's dream come true video game.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG's Descsion Not To Offer Hatred(193 posts)(193 posts)
(193 posts)