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monkeydelarge: Hatred isn't even out yet so if GOG rejects the game without even looking at the final product then it means GOG doesn't like what Hatred expresses.
I am kinda disappointed in GOG's decision here too, but the developer announced that GOG did test the game beforehand. The build they got shouldn't have differed much from the final one at this point.
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Wishbone: And yet, nobody has any indication that "freedom of expression" is being attacked in any way, shape or form, but people are still yelling at GOG at the top of their voices.

Where were all these people when GOG rejected, oh I don't know, tons of other games. Surely that was attacking freedom of expression just as much as rejecting this one is? Why is it that deciding not to sell thousands of other games doesn't matter, but deciding not to sell this one is "censorship"?
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PaterAlf: I know, but the same can be said about games like Braid, Thomas was Alone, or Pirates of the Carribean Online that were all rejected by GOG. Yet I don't see such an ammount of bitching and whining for any of these titles.
All them mentioned games rejected by gog were regular games, "inside the norm" "standard" and whatever else we can call them. They were rejected for tech reasons, price etc, nothing to do about censorship, freedom etc.
And now enter hatred. it's the first game that is out of the norm, not standard, it's extremely visual, graphic and explicit and beside all the reasons mentioned already for rejecting a game a new one appears, imo a very important one: censorhip. And that makes a big difference between those games and this one.

Taking into consideration all the data we have now for this matter I'd put my money on gog rejecting this game for censorhip reasons and purposes. Of course I cannot be 100% sure yet but imo there's a high probability censorhip is the main reason gog rejected it.
We will find soon enough after the game launches:
-if the game is bad then gog rejected because of tech reasons;
-if the game is good then it'll be obvious that gog censorship rejected it and imo that'll be extremely bad.
One more week and it'll all be clear.

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PaterAlf: It's not like you can't buy Hatred DRM-free anywhere else. Just buy a copy on Desura or directly from the devs and enjoy the game. What's the problem?
The problem is ssteam already has market monopoly and I'd like to vote with my wallet and thus strenghten the market position of his closest potential competitor, aka gog.
I refuse to give my money to support and consolidate an existing monopoly. And also I refuse to waste my potential support by giving my money to some minuscule peanuts marketshare like desura or devs.

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monkeydelarge: ...people who support freedom of expression tend to get emotional when freedom of expression is being attacked and there is nothing wrong with that.
You just don't get it because you have no interest in Hatred or you are just trying to justify hostility against this game because you are against this game being sold for whatever insane reason.
I suspect most of people who are being hostile to the supporters of Hatred under the guise "they are not expressing themselves in a polite way", "there are already too many Hatred threads" are really just the people who think the game is evil or think the devs are evil or don't want anyone to enjoy this game because they have no interest in it.
Well written post, plus1

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monkeydelarge: So what is going on is a bunch of people being hostile to the supporters of this game. And I see no good reason for this.
It's the same "old as the world" reason: fear, of something different, of something new. It's different than us so it generates fear and so we must kill it.
Plenty of examples throughout the history of mankind.
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Elmofongo: After say the next 5 to 10 years Hatred is going to fall out of relevence. Exactly like Postal 2.
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Breja: Years? I think you're giving it way to much credit. I'll be surprised if it's remembered by the end of the year in any "this is the year that was" summations.
Yep. This game will get an initial sales spike due to the controversy surrounding it, before the lackluster reviews start coming in and word of mouth and people realize it's just another isometric shoot & loot and other games have done the genre much better already.

I'd be shocked if it's still being talked about even 3 months after it's release.

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monkeydelarge: I can't believe your post has been low rated. Why are there so many gamers here who hate freedom of expression? What the fuck is wrong with you people?
GoG is not a government entity, the freedom of speech argument has no place here.

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monkeydelarge: So I assumed people low rated his post due to insanity(hating freedom of expression)
I downvoted because of the OP's childish tantrum. And I'm downvoting you because you keep assuming this has anything to do with freedom of speech and that anyone who downvoted the OP must hate freedom of speech. And reading through the rest of the thread, you've actually surpassed the OP in ludicrousness.
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Dave-X: I will not longer purchase games through GOG until Hatred is allowed.
Will you refuse to buy games on any other stores either, if they don't sell Hatred? Have any stores decided to sell it? Even Humble Widget?

If I was the maker of Hatred, I'd probably try to sell it on my own store, Minecraft/Penumbra/Telltale-style. That's the beauty of PC gaming, you can set up your own store, no one can prevent you from releasing your game.

EDIT: Ok reading above, apparently some other stores will sell it too (Desura?), and the developer directly too. Good, I don't see the real issue here.

I'm mildly interested to see the game due to all this wailing, if there is anything good in it. For what its worth, I was actually surprised by the level of violence in the latest Mortal Kombat (saw some Youtube videos). The original Mortal Kombats felt more like comedic with their violence, but this is goresplatter-whatever. Slicing people in half with circular saws and whatnot... I knew it was supposed to be violent, but it was even more than what I expected. It is no more cool-har-har for me, more like yikes!
Post edited May 27, 2015 by timppu
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JKHSawyer: I think its a case of "GOG or no buy", much like the "Steam or no buy" crowd. GOG has loyalists like Steam has.
It's exactly the opposite in this case. The "Steam or no buy" crowd are fans of Steam who are completely uninterested in games that do not have a Steam presence; they are pressuring developers to get games on Steam and insisting that their friends and other rec sources stop recommending them non-Steam games. Sure, GOG has those, too. But the current crop of crowdsourced spammers are trying to put pressure on GOG. "No [PLATFORM], no sale" means exactly nothing for the [PLATFORM] in question.

---
Now, GOG's decision is actually obvious.

Suppose you are contracted to paint a fence in a neighborhood, and you have green and blue paint. You think blue looks better, but then you get a call, "Look, if you paint the fence blue, some local racists wil be immensely happy. Just saiyan."
Sure enough, you take your brushes and buckets to the fence, and there's a crowd of people already chanting, "WHITE SKIN, BLUE FENCE! NO BLACKS, NO MUSLIMS! EURO HERALDRY ONLY! KEEP THE BLOOD PURE! WHITE SKIN, BLUE FENCE!"
You turn around, and whoa, there are some counterprotesters: "YES TO PEACE! YES TO UNITY! YES TO GREEN! GREEN LIKE GRASS! GREEN LIKE LEAVES! GREEN LIKE JULY! GREEN LIKE THE FUTURE!"
You say, "Hey folks, you seem sensible. Blue honestly looks better here, and I want to be done wth this shit and go home. Look, it's just paint, paint can't be racist!"
"Maybe it coudn't, yesterday," they say. "But now, if you paint it blue, it will look like you gave in to the racists. So it's either you paint the fence green, or we paint you blue."
"Oh screw it," you say, paint the fence green, get paid and go home.

(Then it turns out the whole mess was instigated by the maker of paint to boost demand.)
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mobutu: [...]
-if the game is good then it'll be obvious that gog censorship rejected it and imo that'll be extremely bad.
[...]
not really. gOg have rejected many games I consider as very good before.

As I said in the other thread (because we really need 3 threads on this...):
"I think the metrics are:

If a game I want is not sold on gOg = Censorship
If a game I do not care about is not sold on gOg = Not censorship

Simpels"

Is that not a bit double standards?
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timppu: [...]
Have any stores decided to sell it?
[...]
At least and [url=http://www.desura.com/games/hatred]Desura sells it.

So, yeah... so much for censorship and repression of freedom of expression. Really it is just "No gOg, no buy"
Post edited May 27, 2015 by amok
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amok: not really. gOg have rejected many games I consider as very good before.

As I said in the other thread (because we really need 3 threads on this...):
"I think the metrics are:

If a game I want is not sold on gOg = Censorship
If a game I do not care about is not sold on gOg = Not censorship

Simpels"

Is that not a bit double standards?
I don't care about Hatred but I still want to see it here if it's a good game as opposed to not being here on cersorship reasons.
It's more of a principle to me, the game doesn't matter.
Like I already said in my previous post, please read it, there's a big difference between those "standard" rejected games and this "controversial" new game.

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amok: At least and [url=http://www.desura.com/games/hatred]Desura sells it.

So, yeah... so much for censorship and repression of freedom of expression. Really it is just "No gOg, no buy"
Please read my previous post about why I'm not interested in other platforms releases.
Thanks ;)
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mobutu: I don't care about Hatred but I still want to see it here if it's a good game as opposed to not being here on cersorship reasons.
It's more of a principle to me, the game doesn't matter.
Like I already said in my previous post, please read it, there's a big difference between those "standard" rejected games and this "controversial" new game.
and by who's standards will you judge this game "good"?

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mobutu: Please read my previous post about why I'm not interested in other platforms releases.
Thanks ;)
That's make it a self imposed censorship by you, you are censoring yourself. Which is not gOg's fault.

Edit - and as PhenixPsaid also in that other thread, is there a metric on how "controversial" a game has to be for it to become "censorship"? I seem to recall you not actually answering him there....
Post edited May 27, 2015 by amok
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the.kuribo: Some of us haven't quite gotten past it yet, just as some haven't quite gotten past another basic human urge to cup your own farts (71% normal).
Looking at that website, I wonder if it's normal for people to hang out on the web and participate in those "Is It Normal?" polls, because the majorities of the votes there really creep me out. I must be a total freak for NOT being full of hatred towards babies, my mother, the chinese, third world countries etc. :P
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Dave-X: I am very disappointed that GOG has decided not to offer Hatred for sale.
I am even more dissapointed you decided another shitty thread regarding this subject had to be created.
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PaterAlf: It's not like you can't buy Hatred DRM-free anywhere else. Just buy a copy on Desura or directly from the devs and enjoy the game. What's the problem?
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mobutu: The problem is ssteam already has market monopoly and I'd like to vote with my wallet and thus strenghten the market position of his closest potential competitor, aka gog.
I refuse to give my money to support and consolidate an existing monopoly. And also I refuse to waste my potential support by giving my money to some minuscule peanuts marketshare like desura or devs.
Well, that's your very own problem then.

Let's face it: It's your decision and no one is preventing you from getting the game DRM-free and playing it. You don't want to support small shops like Desura or the developers of Hatred directly? Fine, but stop complaining about censorship and GOG attacking freedom of speech. That's not what is happening here. It's just you who don't want to buy the game DRM-free anywhere else.
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Breja: Years? I think you're giving it way to much credit. I'll be surprised if it's remembered by the end of the year in any "this is the year that was" summations.
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darkwolf777: Yep. This game will get an initial sales spike due to the controversy surrounding it, before the lackluster reviews start coming in and word of mouth and people realize it's just another isometric shoot & loot and other games have done the genre much better already.

I'd be shocked if it's still being talked about even 3 months after it's release.

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monkeydelarge: I can't believe your post has been low rated. Why are there so many gamers here who hate freedom of expression? What the fuck is wrong with you people?
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darkwolf777: GoG is not a government entity, the freedom of speech argument has no place here.

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monkeydelarge: So I assumed people low rated his post due to insanity(hating freedom of expression)
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darkwolf777: I downvoted because of the OP's childish tantrum. And I'm downvoting you because you keep assuming this has anything to do with freedom of speech and that anyone who downvoted the OP must hate freedom of speech. And reading through the rest of the thread, you've actually surpassed the OP in ludicrousness.
Expect a Femenist Frequency on that game though.
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PaterAlf: I know, but the same can be said about games like Braid, Thomas was Alone, or Pirates of the Carribean Online that were all rejected by GOG. Yet I don't see such an ammount of bitching and whining for any of these titles.
It's also funny how everytime a new game is released, you have a pretty big bunch of people saying stuff among the "GOG should not release these kind of games / Moar classics" lines.

I like Rex Rocket and it was rejected by GOG. Was GOG rejecting it because censorship of because every time a pixel platformer game is released, you get a bunch of "don't release this shit GOG" / "Pfff already owned on Steam, will buy on sale if ever". I remember that some user started a thread with a link to the wishlist to make people aware of the tittle, and many users directly insulted the thread.

But well, if the game rejected is about killing people instead of jumping, I suppose it's OK to start 124781441468 threads of sobbing lads yelling censorship instead of thinking what you wisely said:

It's not like you can't buy Hatred DRM-free anywhere else. Just buy a copy on Desura or directly from the devs and enjoy the game.
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PaterAlf: stop complaining about censorship and GOG attacking freedom of speech.
Like I said in my previous post, I'm concerned about gog rejecting this game on pure censorship basis and we'll know for sure after the game is released.
If, after that, it is determined that gog rejected it because censorship, then yes, I'll be very upset.
In the meantime I expressed my concerns by sendig them an email with the request to analyze the game as usual, not taking into consideration any censoring.
So we'll see in about a week what's what.
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Breja: Years? I think you're giving it way to much credit. I'll be surprised if it's remembered by the end of the year in any "this is the year that was" summations.
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darkwolf777: Yep. This game will get an initial sales spike due to the controversy surrounding it, before the lackluster reviews start coming in and word of mouth and people realize it's just another isometric shoot & loot and other games have done the genre much better already.

I'd be shocked if it's still being talked about even 3 months after it's release.

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monkeydelarge: I can't believe your post has been low rated. Why are there so many gamers here who hate freedom of expression? What the fuck is wrong with you people?
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darkwolf777: GoG is not a government entity, the freedom of speech argument has no place here.

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monkeydelarge: So I assumed people low rated his post due to insanity(hating freedom of expression)
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darkwolf777: I downvoted because of the OP's childish tantrum. And I'm downvoting you because you keep assuming this has anything to do with freedom of speech and that anyone who downvoted the OP must hate freedom of speech. And reading through the rest of the thread, you've actually surpassed the OP in ludicrousness.
An entity doesn't have to be a government entity in order to be guilty of censorship...

What childish tantrum? I see no childish tantrum. It is all in your head. Is the OP screaming in the super market and breaking things? No. Just because you don't like how someone expresses himself or doesn't like what someone has to say doesn't automatically make it a "childish tantrum". The only one guilty is a childish tantrum is you, low rating people like there is no tomorrow.
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monkeydelarge: Hatred isn't even out yet so if GOG rejects the game without even looking at the final product then it means GOG doesn't like what Hatred expresses. Of course, people will care less if dozens of indie plat former games get rejected for practical reasons. Because then it's obvious to people, GOG isn't rejecting such games because of what they express(jumping on platforms, cartoon violence). People will assume those games got rejected because a deal wasn't able to be made or the games have too many technical problems or the prices of those games are too high etc.
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Wishbone: You are basing your opinion solely on what you know about the game, and the assumption that GOG knows just as little as you do. Don't you think it a possibility that GOG, having actually talked to the developer, might know slightly more about the game, it's content, it's quality, the conditions of the developer for selling it here, etc. than you do?
Anything is possible. But keep in mind, that the game was accepted by Steam. So maybe it's good enough for Steam but not good enough for GOG? LOL I don't think so.
Post edited May 27, 2015 by monkeydelarge