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General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 06, 2021
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morolf: [...]
I think it would have been acceptable if they had offered to region-lock Devotion for mainland China.
[...]
No, it would not help at all - this is a very different culture. This is not about censoring, as with Germany or Australia, which do not care as long as it is not sold within their borders. If gOg was only region blocking it, they would still be selling it, which would be seen as approving of / endorsing the game / the publisher. And as it is the game itsef and the publisher which is the problem, this would not change oppinion an iota, but rather make it look sneaky and seen as trying to cheat / trick the Chineese market. This is about loosng face, and how to regain it in that market. Same reason why it is not region blocked on for example Steam. Like this outlook or not, but if you touch the offending product in any shape or form, then you are contaminated. If gOg wanted to keep the Chineese market, this was the best (and possibly only) option they had - to distance themselves from the product completely.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by amok
Posted January 06, 2021
i mostly agree with you and thanks for learning me about zoom. only i cant to find any their (of zoom) promise to focus to be drm free store
Posted January 06, 2021
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amok:
Which basically means China gets a global (!) veto on the selling of games deemed "offensive" to China's one-party system.
I just don't agree that this should in any way be considered acceptable. To me it's somewhat similar to Islamic fanatics trying to prevent Mohammed caricatures. It's a sign of weakness to submit to such intimidation and only invites future demands.
Posted January 06, 2021
low rated
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amok: No, it would not help at all - this is a very different culture. This is not about censoring, as with Germany or Australia, which do not care as long as it is not sold within their borders. If gOg was only region blocking it, they would still be selling it, which would be seen as approving of / endorsing the game / the publisher. And as it is the game itsef and the publisher which is the problem, this would not change oppinion an iota, but rather make it look sneaky and seen as trying to cheat / trick the Chineese market. This is about loosng face, and how to regain it in that market. Same reason why it is not region blocked on for example Steam. Like this oullok or not, but if you touch the offending product in any shape or form, then you are contaminated. If gOg wanted to keep the Chineese market, this was the best (and possibly only) option they had - to distance themselves from the product completely.
Thanks, that's pretty insightful. I also thought along those lines, but I couldn't put it in words properly.

Also while China is important for GOG, GOG is as important to China as a fleck of dust on the carpet. And they love to make an example of a "Western" company on occasion. True to Stalin: "Punish one, educate a hundred".
Posted January 06, 2021
high rated
Thought I'd prepare a list or two, since that's what I often do.

So, reading through this thread, here are my impressions.

People who are boycotting, to whatever degree they're comfortable with:
1) Time4Tea
2) Lifthrasil
3) mrkgnao
4) joppo
5) kdgog
6) Ancient-Red-Dragon
7) ReynardFox
8) Seceroth
9) TencentInvestor
10) pearnon
11) Leevi
12) gloombandit
13) fronzelneekburm
14) MajicMan
15) Chaossaturn
16) john_hatcher
17) Grahor
18) Orkhepaj
19) rjbuffchix
20) B1tF1ghter

People who are sympathetic to the concept:
1) Breja
2) TerriblePurpose
3) morolf
4) DukeNukemForever
5) McMicroDonalds
6) WinterSnowfall
7) flanner
8) Dogmaus

If I have made a mistake, by commission or omission or misrepresentation, please let me know, and I will fix it forthwith.

Updated through post #154.

EDIT: Continued by Time4Tea in https://www.gog.com/forum/general/boycotting_gog_2021/post1
Post edited January 06, 2021 by mrkgnao
Posted January 06, 2021
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Lifthrasil: You forgot me on the 'boycott' list!
Fixed.
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mrkgnao: People who are sympathetic to the concept (N=5):
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WinterSnowfall: For whatever's worth, you can count me here as well.
Done.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by mrkgnao
Posted January 06, 2021
low rated
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amok:
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morolf: Which basically means China gets a global (!) veto on the selling of games deemed "offensive" to China's one-party system.
I just don't agree that this should in any way be considered acceptable. To me it's somewhat similar to Islamic fanatics trying to prevent Mohammed caricatures. It's a sign of weakness to submit to such intimidation and only invites future demands.
not quite, as there is not really any enforcement here. gOg would not risk getting a car bomb, the staff getting kidnped and decapitated, beaten up on the street or similar if they released the game. They would just risk losing the Chinese market. And that was, and still is, an option for gOg. It is still their choice, they can sell the game any day they want.

But as said before - gOg is a buisness, not a moral endavor
Post edited January 06, 2021 by amok
Posted January 06, 2021
Well, I'm certainly not going to buy anything on GOG in 2021, likely at all.
Posted January 06, 2021
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samuraigaiden: I'll say one thing. If a random user starts using my forums or my social media posts comment section to call for a boycott of my company or my products, I would ban that user in a hear beat. Clearly GOG is a lot more tolerant.
Imo, that sort of mindset is what has led to the problems GOG is facing now (and often does for large corporations): not listening to their customers. Although, it would seem consistent with GOG's recent shift towards China, i.e. not tolerating dissent.

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M3troid: It's not like GOG is shoveling GWENT down in our throats. The game is just here for those who wanna play.

I don't see a problem with this.
So, by that logic, you are perfectly ok with other DRMed games being sold on GOG, as long as they aren't 'being shoved down your throat'?

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SomeGuy8504: EDIT: I guess to add to that, when you make threads like this it is mainly to incite some sort of rebellious response. These sorts of "forced" boycotts rarely work from my experience. The only boycotts that work are 'natural' ones that happen because people just don't want to buy a product anymore or use a service because it's bad or annoying.
In what sense is it a 'forced boycott'? All I have done is said I am boycotting for this year; stated my reasons; and asked if anyone else is doing the same.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by Time4Tea
Posted January 06, 2021
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Grahor: Well, I'm certainly not going to buy anything on GOG in 2021, likely at all.
same
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samuraigaiden: I'll say one thing. If a random user starts using my forums or my social media posts comment section to call for a boycott of my company or my products, I would ban that user in a hear beat. Clearly GOG is a lot more tolerant.
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Time4Tea: Imo, that sort of mindset is what has led to the problems GOG is facing now (and often does for large corporations): not listening to their customers. Although, it would seem consistent with GOG's recent shift towards China, i.e. not tolerating dissent.


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SomeGuy8504: EDIT: I guess to add to that, when you make threads like this it is mainly to incite some sort of rebellious response. These sorts of "forced" boycotts rarely work from my experience. The only boycotts that work are 'natural' ones that happen because people just don't want to buy a product anymore or use a service because it's bad or annoying.
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Time4Tea: In what sense is it a 'forced boycott'? All I have done is said I am boycotting for this year; stated my reasons; and asked if anyone else is doing the same.
yep , samuraigidin and similar people not only fine with a totalitarian censoring system but looks like they demaning it

forced :D
natural boycotts ... omg this clearly doesnt make sense at all
these clearly cant when stand some people have morals and actually acting on those
Post edited January 06, 2021 by Orkhepaj
Posted January 06, 2021
I respect who is doing the boycott. I'm not doing it as I got me some games that I wanted for about 1,50 € each and also accepting giveways offered by other users I am incentivating money being spent in the store. I don't see the boycott as a successful thing as it is tied up with the vision of GOG that the old users base has, while the company has attracted many new customers ready for CP2077 and in game purchases and online exclusive content and such. The Devotion thing is an embarassment but I don't see neather Itch.io, Humble or Steam selling it. GOG mistake was carelessy announcing it. Let's put it this way: I'm vegan but i'm not boycotting any store selling eggs and milk and meat. I'll just go in and take my veggies. The supermarket could lose all vegan customers and don't mind, because we are not so many. GOG customers who care for what we believed were core values are few compared to all the new users. Years ago they were seducing us announcing new Linux releases, and now Linux is so out of the plans that there's not even Galaxy for it yet. It's a different GOG...by the way, yesterday after almost 2 years of waiting I bought a game on Steam and it was DRM free, it was not even written anywhere.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by Dogmaus
Posted January 06, 2021
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ReynardFox: It's the modern corporate strategy of playing playing off modern apathy... an alarming number of people eventually simply stop complaining about an issue and just accept it, at which point those who gave in start to perceive any continuing complaints as a nuisance, that because they've convinced themselves a problem is tolerable that anyone else continuing to go on about it is just beating a dead horse. Continued fighting against something becomes irritating to those who have no real convictions.

It's god damned infuriating how many times I've had people argue back at me about unsolved problems with "that's just how shit is now".
Absolutely. That is precisely how DRM has become so widespread in games in the first place: normalization.

Some people seem to be allergic to any challenge to the status-quo (especially if it involves them having to do something that is (gasp!) inconvenient).

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flanner: i mostly agree with you and thanks for learning me about zoom. only i cant to find any their (of zoom) promise to focus to be drm free store
Yes, it is true that at the moment there is no mention of DRM-free on the site. However, I have heard they are planning to update the site in the near future and make it clearer that they are DRM-free.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by Time4Tea
Posted January 06, 2021
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Dogmaus: I respect who is doing the boycott. I'm not doing it as I got me some games that I wanted for about 1,50 € each and also accepting giveways offered by other users I am incentivating money being spent in the store. I don't see the boycott as a successful thing as it is tied up with the vision of GOG that the old users base has, while the company has attracted many new customers ready for CP2077 and in game purchases and online exclusive content and such. The Devotion thing is an embarassment but I don't see neather Itch.io, Humble or Steam selling it. GOG mistake was carelessy announcing it. Let's put it this way: I'm vegan but i'm not boycotting any store selling eggs and milk and meat. I'll just go in and take my veggies. The supermarket could lose all vegan customers and don't mind, because we are not so many. GOG customers who care for what we believed were core values are few compared to all the new users. Years ago they were seducing us announcing new Linux releases, and now Linux is so out of the plans that there's not even Galaxy for it yet. It's a different GOG...by the way, yesterday after almost 2 years of waiting I bought a game on Steam and it was DRM free, it was not even written anywhere.
I see your point. However, I think where the 'grocery store' analogy breaks down is that there is not such a clear inherent distinction between DRMed and DRM-free games, in the way that there is with veggies and meat/eggs. Veggies are veggies and meat is meat and that is that. The distinction is unavoidable and will always be there. However, a video game can be released either with our without DRM, at the choice of the developer.

What occurs to me is that, if GOG start allowing more DRMed games onto the store (which the Epic deal seems to be effectively doing), then developers will have less incentive to release games DRM-free, because they can access GOG and still keep the DRM. They can have their cake and eat it.

I think the vegetarian might be less willing to buy their veggies from a store that sells both meat and veggies, if the fact that the store sells meat is likely to make it less easy to buy veggies in the future. I don't agree that the presence of DRMed games on GOG, as long as they are clearly labelled, would have no negative impact for those that value DRM-free games.

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mrkgnao: Thought I'd prepare a list or two, since that's what I often do.
Thanks very much for posting that list. I saw your earlier message about it, but was a bit busy yesterday evening. Do you mind if I copy it to the first post?
Post edited January 06, 2021 by Time4Tea
Posted January 06, 2021
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Magnitus: Personally, I put more stock in direct democracy, but good luck with that.
... yet I was talking from a purely economical/apolitical standpoint. Unless you think you can have any sway over GOG by leveraging direct democracy. In which case, good luck with that :).
Post edited January 06, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
Posted January 06, 2021
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mrkgnao: Thought I'd prepare a list or two, since that's what I often do.

So, reading through this thread, here are my impressions.

People who are boycotting, to whatever degree they're comfortable with (N=18):
- Time4Tea
- Lifthrasil
- mrkgnao
- joppo
- kdgog
- Ancient-Red-Dragon
- ReynardFox
- Seceroth
- TencentInvestor
- pearnon
- Leevi
- gloombandit
- fronzelneekburm
- MajicMan
- Chaossaturn
- john_hatcher
- Grahor
- Orkhepaj

People who are sympathetic to the concept (N=8):
- Breja
- TerriblePurpose
- morolf
- DukeNukemForever
- McMicroDonalds
- WinterSnowfall
- flanner
- Dogmaus

If I have made a mistake, by commission or omission or misrepresentation, please let me know, and I will fix it forthwith.

Updated through post #147.
I haven't really followed this topic in its entirety but please add me to whichever list you believe is appropriate. I have been engaging in a sort of soft boycott ever since the news that GOG would be/is(?) selling DRMed games via the new app in GOG Galaxy. The issues with No Man's Sky, Cyberpunk My Rewards, etc have reinforced this too. Basically, I had cut down any buying and will only go out on a limb to buy something I feel is a must-have. For example, Silent Hill 4 was a must-have. If GOG got stuff like old Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, GTA, etc, with OFFLINE INSTALLERS, of course, I would buy them too.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts)