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M3troid: It's not like GOG is shoveling GWENT down in our throats. The game is just here for those who wanna play.

I don't see a problem with this.
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Time4Tea: So, by that logic, you are perfectly ok with other DRMed games being sold on GOG, as long as they aren't 'being shoved down your throat'?
No. Never.

If they say that (insert the game here) is DRM Free, then the fucking game has to be DRM Free. That's why i agree with the removal of NMS and other DRMed games.

But that's not the case of GWENT. It was never marketed as DRM Free. It's just another free cash grab.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by M3troid
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mrkgnao: Thought I'd prepare a list or two, since that's what I often do.
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Time4Tea: Thanks very much for posting that list. I saw your earlier message about it, but was a bit busy yesterday evening. Do you mind if I copy it to the first post?
By all means, please do.
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ReynardFox: A problem doesn't stop being a problem just because people like you are sick of hearing about it.
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amok: there is also just so many times you can hear about it before you start getting sick of it. it is not like repeating the same thing ad infinitum is suddenely going to make you "oh yaah!". I got it the first time, thank you, no need to repate it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. The only thing you achive is that you may alienate rather then convince. Nagging is possibly another good word, it just turns out annoying.
Dude, we are way past the point where reasoning takes any plausible effect.
We need to take radical steps.

If you are not getting sick of a premise of one country censoring entire outside world while simulatenously you are getting sick of people who are trying to fight it then I don't know what to tell you. It almost sounds like you are embracing it. And that's sad :(

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amok: spaming has never helped a cause, the feeling it is more likely to leave in someone is "oh god, not again" rather then "i can get behind this"
Oh really? Remind me how GOG brought the Devotion release down. Oh, it was "messages from many 'gamers'".
And since it happened (the "information" about refusing to fullfill already signed contract with a developer) basically the same time as GOGs announcement about game's release - well - those "gamers" surely achieved what they wanted through, let's face it, SPAM.
So talk about bias.

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morolf: ...
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Krooked_: Even if you stop spending money here as long as you're using their service you're still their customer.
But you do realize that more people on the forum active simulatenously generate higher load on their potato servers and subsequently costs them more money? :P :D

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morolf: I can understand that since there are no really equivalent alternatives for now
Playism (beware tho - not a big selection of games - mostly Japanese indies since that's what that platform was meant for)

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morolf: [...]
I think it would have been acceptable if they had offered to region-lock Devotion for mainland China.
[...]
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amok: No, it would not help at all - this is a very different culture. This is not about censoring, as with Germany or Australia, which do not care as long as it is not sold within their borders. If gOg was only region blocking it, they would still be selling it, which would be seen as approving of / endorsing the game / the publisher. And as it is the game itsef and the publisher which is the problem, this would not change oppinion an iota, but rather make it look sneaky and seen as trying to cheat / trick the Chineese market. This is about loosng face, and how to regain it in that market. Same reason why it is not region blocked on for example Steam. Like this outlook or not, but if you touch the offending product in any shape or form, then you are contaminated. If gOg wanted to keep the Chineese market, this was the best (and possibly only) option they had - to distance themselves from the product completely.
Devotion on Steam was taken down by developers themselves, and for officially other reasons on top of that.
There's a big difference between that and a platform itself backing off from already signed contract (GOG).
Steam did not do that.

On top of that all the allegedly offending content was REMOVED from the game in question LONG BEFORE GOG's announcement of release.

Guess what Steam does when CH does not like something in a game? They sell it everywhere except there.
There's plenty of examples.

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mrkgnao: People who are boycotting, to whatever degree they're comfortable with (N=18):
Count me in ;)
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rjbuffchix: I haven't really followed this topic in its entirety but please add me to whichever list you believe is appropriate. I have been engaging in a sort of soft boycott... <snip>
Done. Added to first list.
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mrkgnao: People who are boycotting, to whatever degree they're comfortable with (N=18):
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B1tF1ghter: Count me in ;)
Done.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by mrkgnao
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Time4Tea: So, by that logic, you are perfectly ok with other DRMed games being sold on GOG, as long as they aren't 'being shoved down your throat'?
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M3troid: No. Never.

If they say that (insert the game here) is DRM Free, then the fucking game has to be DRM Free. That's why i agree with the removal of NMS and other DRMed games.

But that's not the case of GWENT. It was never marketed as DRM Free. It's just another free cash grab.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Gwent clearly has DRM and is on GOG. So, to me you seem to be saying you are ok with DRMed games being on GOG, as long as they are not being 'marketed as DRM-free'?

Otherwise, why should Gwent enjoy some special status? (unless we're saying the rules don't apply to CDPR's own games)
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Time4Tea: So, by that logic, you are perfectly ok with other DRMed games being sold on GOG, as long as they aren't 'being shoved down your throat'?
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M3troid: No. Never.

If they say that (insert the game here) is DRM Free, then the fucking game has to be DRM Free. That's why i agree with the removal of NMS and other DRMed games.

But that's not the case of GWENT. It was never marketed as DRM Free. It's just another free cash grab.
So you're ok with DRM games on GOG, as long as they're marketed as DRM?
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WinterSnowfall: ... yet I was talking from a purely economical/apolitical standpoint. Unless you think you can have any sway over GOG by leveraging direct democracy. In which case, good luck with that :).
And yet, this is how things really get done. For example, ownership of user data on the internet didn't really matter much until the EU put its pants on and imposed regulations.

This is also how China has more leverage on the Devotion issue than a fraction of GOG's user base.

You want real changes? Don't lobby GOG. Lobby your government.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by Magnitus
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Time4Tea: Thanks very much for posting that list. I saw your earlier message about it, but was a bit busy yesterday evening. Do you mind if I copy it to the first post?
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mrkgnao: By all means, please do.
Ok, I have added the list to the first post. I will try to keep track of any others who voice their support, but please let me know if you think I've missed anyone.
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Time4Tea: So, to me you seem to be saying you are ok with DRMed games being on GOG, as long as they are not being 'marketed as DRM-free'?
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mrkgnao: So you're ok with DRM games on GOG, as long as they're marketed as DRM?
Yes, yes. That's exactly what i'm saying...

Hurray to DRM.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by M3troid
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B1tF1ghter: Devotion on Steam was taken down by developers themselves, and for officially other reasons on top of that.
There's a big difference between that and a platform itself backing off from already signed contract (GOG).
Steam did not do that.
Yeah that's why as soon as the devs fixed their issues and wanted to sell the game again it was immediately put back on Steam.......right....
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amok: there is also just so many times you can hear about it before you start getting sick of it. it is not like repeating the same thing ad infinitum is suddenely going to make you "oh yaah!". I got it the first time, thank you, no need to repate it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again. The only thing you achive is that you may alienate rather then convince. Nagging is possibly another good word, it just turns out annoying.
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B1tF1ghter: Dude, we are way past the point where reasoning takes any plausible effect.
We need to take radical steps.

If you are not getting sick of a premise of one country censoring entire outside world while simulatenously you are getting sick of people who are trying to fight it then I don't know what to tell you. It almost sounds like you are embracing it. And that's sad :(
Dude, posting the same thing over and over and over again in a forum is not a 'radical step'. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" (wrongly credit to Einstein)

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amok: spaming has never helped a cause, the feeling it is more likely to leave in someone is "oh god, not again" rather then "i can get behind this"
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B1tF1ghter: Oh really? Remind me how GOG brought the Devotion release down. Oh, it was "messages from many 'gamers'".
And since it happened (the "information" about refusing to fullfill already signed contract with a developer) basically the same time as GOGs announcement about game's release - well - those "gamers" surely achieved what they wanted through, let's face it, SPAM.
So talk about bias.
Dude, wrong analogy, I have not seen any spam here in the forum about not relaseing the game, so your bias? The only spam I have seen here is this topic, over and over and over and over again in n'th thread. Where is this 'spam' from those 'gamers'? any links?

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amok: No, it would not help at all - this is a very different culture. This is not about censoring, as with Germany or Australia, which do not care as long as it is not sold within their borders. If gOg was only region blocking it, they would still be selling it, which would be seen as approving of / endorsing the game / the publisher. And as it is the game itsef and the publisher which is the problem, this would not change oppinion an iota, but rather make it look sneaky and seen as trying to cheat / trick the Chineese market. This is about loosng face, and how to regain it in that market. Same reason why it is not region blocked on for example Steam. Like this outlook or not, but if you touch the offending product in any shape or form, then you are contaminated. If gOg wanted to keep the Chineese market, this was the best (and possibly only) option they had - to distance themselves from the product completely.
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B1tF1ghter: Devotion on Steam was taken down by developers themselves, and for officially other reasons on top of that.
There's a big difference between that and a platform itself backing off from already signed contract (GOG).
Steam did not do that.

On top of that all the allegedly offending content was REMOVED from the game in question LONG BEFORE GOG's announcement of release.

Guess what Steam does when CH does not like something in a game? They sell it everywhere except there.
There's plenty of examples.
Dude, so tell me why is Devotion not sold on Steam, as it is 'fixed'?

Anyway, for Steam this will soon be a non-issue, as they are working on a seperate Chinese only game client

(An edit, dude - one of many links, in case you do not belive me - https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/71164/chinese-version-of-steam-launches-in-alpha/)
Post edited January 06, 2021 by amok
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M3troid: No. Never.

If they say that (insert the game here) is DRM Free, then the fucking game has to be DRM Free. That's why i agree with the removal of NMS and other DRMed games.

But that's not the case of GWENT. It was never marketed as DRM Free. It's just another free cash grab.
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mrkgnao: So you're ok with DRM games on GOG, as long as they're marketed as DRM?
I am , I knew gog would go into this direction it just offers way more publishing deals.
They should still favour drm-free thou.
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mrkgnao: So you're ok with DRM games on GOG, as long as they're marketed as DRM?
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M3troid: Yes, yes. That's exactly what i'm saying...

Hurray to DRM.
OK. Fair enough. Some people would rather see this store be entirely DRM-free.
But your approach is valid too, as is Orkhepaj's above.
Post edited January 06, 2021 by mrkgnao
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mrkgnao: Thought I'd prepare a list or two, since that's what I often do.

So, reading through this thread, here are my impressions.

People who are boycotting, to whatever degree they're comfortable with:
1) Time4Tea
2) Lifthrasil
3) mrkgnao
4) joppo
5) kdgog
6) Ancient-Red-Dragon
7) ReynardFox
8) Seceroth
9) TencentInvestor
10) pearnon
11) Leevi
12) gloombandit
13) fronzelneekburm
14) MajicMan
15) Chaossaturn
16) john_hatcher
17) Grahor
18) Orkhepaj
19) rjbuffchix
20) B1tF1ghter

People who are sympathetic to the concept:
1) Breja
2) TerriblePurpose
3) morolf
4) DukeNukemForever
5) McMicroDonalds
6) WinterSnowfall
7) flanner
8) Dogmaus

If I have made a mistake, by commission or omission or misrepresentation, please let me know, and I will fix it forthwith.

Updated through post #154.
I'm limiting my purchases on GOG to games with huge discounts and DLCs for games I already own, so does this count as boycotting? If not, at least I'm sympathetic to the concept.
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mrkgnao: ...
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_Auster_: I'm limiting my purchases on GOG to games with huge discounts and DLCs for games I already own, so does this count as boycotting? If not, at least I'm sympathetic to the concept.
Any form of boycott is welcome. I believe people should decide for themselves where they draw the line. Some prefer to buy absolutely nothing, some --- like you --- decide to significantly reduce their spending. Both are valid forms of boycott.