Why the vote on Jmich and not Flub? According to your last sentence you said you were Voting Flub

Jmich to me has flown completely under my radar making him very hard to read. While I would be willing to vote for him if push came to shove but I like Flub better. Jmich has pointed out things that raise his attention. Flub to me more just quotes people and gives comments but most of them are not giving town much at all.



So your not voting for someone because people you think scummy are. Do you have reasons you do not find Flub to be on the scum side of things or on the town side of things?

So the reason he would become quiet is because he is being bused? What about he has decided to stay quiet as not to say anything to bring more votes on himself? Or he could be quiet so his buddies don't come to his defense and bring attention to themselves? Or what if he is at work and just not on?

I really liked your posts in the beginning of the day (2) but closer it gets to the lynch the more things I am finding off about your posts, comments and responses to questions.

Sorry, had to step away to take care of a couple of things, then dozed off at my desk.


IIIRC? And what if you don't? In any case, I still don't see how any of this qualifies as trentonlf being Dessimu's strongest scum-read.


[emphasis added]

Which suggests that you have a certain frame of how town plays, and my approach deviates outside of it, hence bothers you.


Well, if you're scum, I certainly don't expect you to come forward and admit that this is your scum-play, but telling us, should we take your word at face value, that your scum-play is just like and as effective as your town-play, doesn't exactly help your case. You also say now that as scum you play to what the game needs... yet earlier claimed to never bus and defend hard your scum-buddies.

More importantly, though, you come on with 'I don't have much time", then spend the limited time you have on laying out how your town-play differs (or not) from your scum-one, doesn't make you look any better when at the same time you state that you're obvitown, yet don't have the will to gamesolve, all on D2. Which makes your mention of confusion and feeling rushed sound more like excuses than anything else.


The problem with flubbucket is that he does that as either alignment, so that, on its own, is not enough to tell if he's town or scum.


[emphasis added]

Again, just because you see yourself as obvitown and state so, doesn't mean that he does, or should, if he's town - town has no way of knowing your alignment, and with you being unknown, we have no reference to distinguish your town-play from your scum-one, and no reason to take your word at face value. That said, I assume you translate the way you read his post as him calling you town? Because I don't see him calling you town, and him not straight out calling you scum doesn't equal to calling you town.


You sure don't project any confusion, but if you are, what are you confused about? Why, and what about, have you felt really rushed?


Does blindly following them also fall under being obvitown? Will you self-vote if they agree on lynching you?


Could you share what you've based your "sole solid town read" on? And could you point to where you've done said read? I've gone over your posts, and couldn't find anything besides "yogsloth's actual strongest town-read Day 1 was Lifthrasil".


Could you explain what the way trentonlf has been treating cristigale has to do with me being scum?
And am I scum because I'm currently not voting flubbucket or because I'm not voting at all?

I'll admit my "contributions" have been lame. It's simply a matter of long work hours. I'm coming home from work and skimming since my job blocks this nefarious web site.

I don't like the last two votes because they seem to be more a matter of convenience rather than scum hunting. These positions on the wagon are a common place for scum to park. And two so close together is just hard for me to ignore.

No it's just too much work drama.

I had another day today starting at 4:30am and ending at 9:30pm.

I'm stubborn about not subbing out of a game.

So, to answer Lifthrasil's question (post #568) - up until this post of medamiedo I was in the "not sure what to make of her" camp, even though a few others got scum-pings from her; with no reference to distinguish her town-play from her scum-one, things that raised my eyebrow could be attributed to either alignment.

But she's gone more absent than present Today, and I don't like it. I also don't like how she's claiming to have run out of steam and have no will to gamesolve just after D1. Which I assume is supposed to also explain why she's ready to blindly follow Lifthrasil and RWarehall.

In her last few posts she's put in the disclaimer of having limited time which on its own is understandable. But then spends most of it arguing about her position as obvitown, after her initial proclamation was questioned, going over how her plays are alike and where they differ, and how good she is as either alignment, after having made statements as , [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_47_it_tastes_like_chicken_you_wont_believe_its_flavorless/post148]this, and this. I'd think that a townie with little time in their hands would make better use of it.

I also don't appreciate the constant prompting needed to get her to answer questions. This is not necessarily alignment indicative, but it may indicate an unwillingness to be on record, and that's something that doesn't sit well with me.

And then there's the certainty of some people's alignments, supposedly based on the D1 reads of the dead town-players, and her latest scum list (post #582) that I can't quite follow all her "this" over "that", and why one is more likely than the other.

Could be a clash of cultures, but a few too many things don't seem to add up and feel more leaning to the scummy side than not, especially as the game progresses. I could vote here.

I don't think I'd vote Sage103082 Today, unless someone can make me see what about her is lynch-worthy.

I've reread flubbucket. Not much to reread, a grant total of 34 posts, and not much content at that.

What I'd like from those agreeing with medamiedo about flubbucket not fighting back, is to point me to where he fought back in the first place. Unless we understand "fighting back' differently, I don't quite see him fighting (back) anywhere.

Having said that, I'm always cautious when it comes to flubbucket. I'm also hesitant to openly comment on his play early as it makes him clam up, and then we're left with nothing (useful) to try to figure out what alignment he is. I've made a note of his posts #203 and #222 (not sure the former was a clear fishing attempt as trentonlf believes), but that's all. I'd like to give him a chance to reply to the latest questions addressed to him, and hopefully he will before time runs out. I could vote here, as even if not scum, he's been the least helpful to town, although I dread a mislynch.

I was going to do a reread on JMich to try and see what cristigale suggested, but I'm pretty exhausted right now, so I'm going to do it after I catch a few hours of sleep. I will also see where we are, and cast my vote.

I don't want to see you sub out of a game, it's good to see you playing again. What are your thoughts on meda, bookwyrm, RW, and JMich?

How am I lying? The post where I move my vote (207) shows a timestamp of April 24th, with the lynch being on April 25th. Yog had just picked up a 5th vote from Flub (post 203), putting the wagons at Yog 5 to Dessimu 3 with less than 24 hours until deadline (probably; I don't remember the exact times for those posts). I moved my vote to secure a second wagon as viable, before anyone dropped off Dessimu and left us with only one real wagon (Yog) at end of day.

ISO'ing from that post forward: She sees town tells from RW there, then about a week later (now in D2) there are a few times she says he's posting scummy, and in Post 448 she puts him as a 4th possible scum candidate along with some other people (or something, not entirely clear on what that sentence with the list is trying to say), except RW is off limits because of Yog's read.

How would YOU interpret it?

1) Please be wary of putting words in my mouth.

2) You missed Trent in your list of those not voting when RW unvoted.

3) Could RW, regardless of alignment, be absolutely sure of achieving a lynch when several other players haven't voted? I suppose not, because he can't account for things like global power outages (to take a facetious example) or unexpected actions from other players.

4) Do scum prefer mislynches over no lynches? I'd say that generally speaking, yes, scum prefer mislynches over no lynches because it puts more non-scum bodies on the ground.

5) Will scum be fine with a no lynch on D1, especially when they have extra NK's? I'd say that generally speaking, yes. A common (paraphrased) observation is "we need to lynch on D1 or we'll be right back here again on D2, except with fewer townies", and this game was not an exception.

6) By itself, it does not make him scum. It doesn't look good, but it isn't auto-scum.

Leaning town at the moment.

You asked why I'm willing to lynch JMich, and I told you. I'm not very sure about who might be the third scum, so I'm looking at the group of players that aren't sorted very well.

Please present a case for JMich being town. Also present one for him being scum. There was (almost literally) nothing from him that I could read any alignment from when I first ran through his posts, and nothing he has said since then has done much to help me sort him either.

I look at him, and I see a whole lot of null. He isn't being proactive about clearing himself as town, and I really, really would like to NOT have a completely unreadable slot around when Lylo arrives.

So yeah, if I can't have my picks for scum lynched, I'm willing to compromise with others and take a JMich lynch instead.

When it may take an hour or more to write a single post while providing examples? Sometimes, yes. Especially when my wife is giving me puppy dog eyes to try and get me off the computer.

-----

Not me? My eyebrows just took off for a low Earth orbit.

You mean I can sucker scum into keeping a town HSL in the game, solving, prodding, and thinking?

Guys, if Hyper survives N3, then we definitely need to lynch him on Day 4. No if's, and's, or buts. By that point he's proven scum and needs to die. Just phone it in, no need to even talk.

The biggest point in Flub's favor would be that my top choices for scum have pushed hard for his lynch, which implies that he is town (with the obvious WIFOM caveat). Beyond that, Flub is roughly in the same category as JMich, though Flub tends to be somewhat more responsive to events in the game when he's around.

Based just on what Flub has been posting, I don't have a lot of pings one way or the other.

Trent, meda, HSL and me have been covered. RWarehall is pinging my scumdar quite a bit. flub is his usual self, and I'm reluctant of voting for him today, though I may change my mind tomorrow. Wary of Lift, looking for more info based on meda's flip. Nothing to say about you and/or cristi so far, will have to read you both again.

lol so you're confirmed living through tonight and I'm dying?

I mean I can't say I'm not glad, eating a nk at this point would be an amazing relief.

Neither. I'm betting on my unreadability you so dislike and the votes I've already gathered for scum to try and lynch me instead of night killing me, and I'm still hoping we will be lynching you. But feel free to read whatever you want, we all seem to be doing so anyway.

As I mentioned, I'm not fond of statements like these in general, because it can give scum ideas. However, IMO Bookwyrm was stating the obvious, at least to those who played or followed the last game. I saw his response to this question. I don't agree with the absoluteness of his response but I cannot totally disagree either.

Take another look at the emphasized part. I wanted to draw attention to JMich. Flubb is already drawing scrutiny. If I say I find flubb/JMich scummy and right away vote flubb, people are apt to not take as much notice. Your feedback is precisely why, JMich is flying under radars. My impression is that's what scum are mostly doing this game (my guess is 2 out of 3 scum). I think the most of the arguing has been town-town.

Yes, the cultures between sites can have marked differences. I played on another site and mainly watched on a second one.

It's common on the other site where I played for players to name someone as obvtown. If they are town, it rarely means they have some inside knowledge. It's their read. Depending on when/how presented, it may be a solid read (they never plan to budge) or it may be just for that time and could change as the game evolves. Some players use the term after reading a single post from another player (that doesn't hold much credence with me, but it's common). Scum will also use it to try and pocket town or paint their buddy in a good light.

It's also common to sheep another player - go along with another player's thoughts and vote with them. Both town and scum do it. Of course, the trick is figuring our which is which.

If players can confidently obvtown enough of the right people, it creates a strong town-block that is hard to break. If reads are correct, town is almost guaranteed to win through POE (process of elimination). Now of course, scum will try their best to sneak in to that town block and wreak havoc.

All that to say, I still think meda is likely town. I think most of the suspicion is based on different styles of play.

@JMich - why do you think meda's obvtown on Lift is based on yog's second post? I don't see anything in her ISO (specific to Lift) to indicate this. Somewhere I think she mentioned giving RW the benefit-of-the-doubt based on yog's read. If you are town, I understand questioning the read. Trying to link her read to yogs' second post doesn't ring true to me.

@Hyper - why do you think meda has been less active D2? I see that her post count is lower than D1. I don't see a decline in content.

I mean I don't really find you unreadable and I only said that once in a post way at the start :/

It's well past my bedtime. I will be back for about 1 hour before deadline. A few players have indicated they would vote JMich, but no one else has actually placed a vote there. flubb's contributions today have done nothing to assuage my concerns and this looks like the more plausible wagon. I don't see myself voting for meda.

Unvote JMich

Vote flubbucket

Like this setup is ridiculously scumsided and if we mislynch here then we've probably just lost. Town aren't active at all with their votes, activity is low, deadlines are short, everything about this game is stacked against town. Day 1 I was glad people were pushing on me because I wanted to be around for Day 2 but at this point I just want to die so I'm really hoping my reads are accurate and we're lynching scum today or someone's whose reads are accurate pushes scum but at the moment it doesn't look like anyone's interested in genuinely pushing anything except me which makes no sense at all given that I'm probably the most demotivated player here.

Man this wagon just feels gross, that push on JMich felt fake and I feel like I'm being majorly buddied right now. Someone tell me if I'm nuts for abandoning a scum lynch but I'm getting cold feet here.

My gut is conflicted, let's do this. Flashwagon gogogo

unvote flubb
vote cristi