Good point. So much for nice, relaxing, fatty treats I guess.

-----

Back to business.

I'm not following my top two scum suspects on to a wagon, so I don't see myself voting Flub today. I'd need significantly more evidence than "didn't post on the day of the dealine."

While (obviously) I'd prefer a RW or Meda lynch, I could see my way clear to voting Sage or JMich.

This is the best you can come up with?

How about fact until proven otherwise.

I think I can definitively state that is exactly what happened since the other possibilities don't match what we know.
But just in case, which of the following options do you think it is instead?

1) Scum out of the goodness of their hearts didn't try to kill anyone and I (or someone else) killed Dess as the Vigilante.
2) Scum out of the goodness of their hearts decided the setup was unfair and wanted to give us a fighting chance by only single-targeting a single individual whom I as the Doctor (or someone else) happened to protect while I as the Vigilante (or someone else) killed Dess.
3) Scum out of the goodness of their hearts decided the setup was unfair and wanted to give us a fighting chance by only single-targeting a single individual and that was Dess while I as the Doctor (or someone else) decided to protect someone else.
4) Scum out of the goodness of their hearts decided the setup was unfair and wanted to give us a fighting chance by only single-targeting a single individual and that was Dess while I as the Doctor (or someone else) protected Dess. But I as the Vigilante (or someone else) also targeted Dess which killed him.
5) Scum targeted two players (inexplicably including and just single-shotting the claimed Cop) and I as Doctor (or someone else) protected this same second person.
6) Scum targeted two players (inexplicably including and just single-shotting the claimed Cop) and I as Doctor (or someone else) protected this same second person. Meanwhile, I as the Vigilante (or someone else) also targeted Dess.

Note: The above should illustrate why it is a bad idea for town to talk about PRs or to promote such discussion through false claims. Unless one carefully words each and every one of these mentions, one may slip and reveal their own presence or absence of said role.

Or worse, it can play out like Day 1, where Yogs and his soft-claims attracted the interest of the real Cop which put him under suspicion in enough people's eyes to lead to his claim. The whole time, he had a tough time explaining exactly why he suspected Yogs without revealing he was the Cop which read as holding back which fed the wagon leading to his claim.

For the record, I'll also add JMich to the list I'll join should the rest of you prefer it. The fact he is resorting to this sort of nonsense after his next-to-nothing contributions day 1 at a moment when seemingly a number of people are trying to covertly stall the Flub lynch, speaks volumes. It just looks like LAMIST grandstanding to me. If you disagree with what's going on, how about making a real argument why Flub is town? Not this made-up conspiracy theory about inconsistencies in me promoting no-lynches or pull a few words out of hundreds of posts with some ridiculous claim that I have knowledge no one should have when everyone in the game knows Dess was double-shot. Actually talking about why Flub might be innocent is the way Townies discuss lynches.

Tonight, I'll put together the list of pings, potential scumtells, and scumlike actions I ran across regarding Bookwyrm. I do not have time to put it together now before work. Figure I better explain it better since all signs point to a number of people piling on me as a Flub counter-wagon and I'd like a chance to explain it to you before I flip town.

Skimmed a bit, so first off:

@flubbucket - hang in there, hope things improve sooner than later.

@Sage103082 - congrats on the new family members! Do your best as aunt for them to realise all their dreams and aspirations.

@dedoporno - Sage103082 is too young and sweet to be the scary cat lady.

@Lifthrasil - your prompt has been noted. I'll get there, but please bear with me while I catch up with the latest, probably in chunks; I'm in a bit of a zombie like state as I got almost no sleep last night, had to get up very early this morning and had a pretty exhausting day.

There are currently only 4 players that can know for a fact if Dessimu was double tapped. The 3 scum and the doctor, if the doctor chose to protect Dessimu. All of your following show that you think of it as most likely scenario, yet you still call it a fact.

Why should I make an argument about Flub being town? I don't know whether Flub is town or not, so I can't argue for (or against) him.

Again, only 3 or 4 players know for a fact if Dessimu was double tapped. Yet you are the only one saying it's a fact, even after being asked for clarification. And you think that should not be raising any flags for the rest of us...

Well, you voted Sage103082 who was at L minus "five", so...


[emphasis added]

I take this to mean that you have been doing this? Where's your contribution? Where are the results of your effort? Have you been keeping them to yourself? If so, why? What good is it to town?


What about these votes in particular don't you like? Why is one or both scum? And why vote Sage103082 over trentonlf?



What about it makes you think scum-Bookwyrm627 wouldn't make that post?

Scum Bookwyrm would have agreed wholeheartedly that it was all yog's fault that Dessimu had to claim and get NK'd when in fact it was not yogs at all that caused that. Trying to put the blame on a dead townie who can't defend himself is a total scum move IMO.

And that's where I disagree with you completely. I am convinced that Yog's play was the cause of Dessimu's claim. It led to Dessimu reacting to him in a way that called attention to Dessimu and gave scum two town targets they could rally against. So yog's play was bad. And calling bad play bad isn't scummy. It is just stating an opinion. And no matter what you do, even if you stand on your head and yodel, you will not convince me that yog's play was good for town. It was crazy play and only good for scum.

NOTICE: I won't be around during the last hours before deadline due to just getting confirmed that taking care of some things related to my mother's remains being unearthed and stored in the charnel house later this month is scheduled fro tomorrow.
I will try my best to make a decision tonight or early (my) tomorrow morning, and check in before I have to go to the cemetery to see where we are, and if anything needs to be done from my side.



Looking at what scum did to see if anything can be gleaned is fine, but truth is you spend a lot more time talking about what you'd do as scum, instead of what scum did and what you take from it. Granted, I (and others) contributed to it with my (our) questions, but we'd not need clarification(s) had you not started with it.


That's actually what puzzles me. With not much frame of reference for his actual scum game, but plenty for his town-game, the 'natural' association is with his town-game instead of "oh, I don't connect it with a specific alignment". Still not sure what to make of it, and with no way to check/prove the sincerity (or lack of) of your clarifications, I'll leave it here.


Not sure if you went to double-check in the meantime, but I've looked at her reads as part of my planned ISO on her (have it open as I type this), and I have to agree with Sage103082 that medamiedo's reads don't change solely based on flips. She also wasn't town-reading Lifthrasil in a consistent manner, and more importantly, she definitely didn't start town-reading RWarehall at the end of D1, as "you noticed" - just go and see for yourself.
Granted, she could have gone about these the way she did as scum, with her being unknown to us, but, based on what's on record in the thread, whether truthful or faked, what you've claimed is not quite so. And that, imo, takes credit from your argument(s), and makes you look more like you're after her because she suspects you for the most part of the game, with a bit of trying to associate RWarehall and her as scum-buddies.


And yet you left your vote on me until post #147 ..., apparently only because you thought Lifthrasil slipped.


Dang, missed my chance to tell on you.


Are you saying that this is not alignment indicative?


Not sure I follow. Since scum knew at the time that both wagons were a mislynch, why would scum go for No-Lynch over securing one of the mislynches?


[emphasis added]

This kind of reads like you think it rather unlikely, yet you won't vote for him.

Which brings me to:

Two questions:
- If those making the arguments were not your top scum-suspects, would you consider voting him with the read you have on him? If not, is there something else besides "I'd need significantly more evidence than "didn't post on the day of the dealine""?
- What about Sage103082 and JMich makes you comfortable enough to vote either of them?

Here is my point of reference for that statement. She is starting to see RW as town, and it is near the end of D1.

Considering I didn't have much in the way of any scum suspects or decent reasoning, and because you weren't actually in any danger of being lynched at the time, I didn't have much reason to move it before then.

Yes. It's in the same class as saying "Town needs to lynch scum". Both are very true and very obvious.

I didn't say they'd prefer a No Lynch over a mislynch; check the parenthesis at the end there. I said that it has already been pointed out in this game that Scum would be happy with a No Lynch. RW's failure to take a stance on who should or should not be lynched in that last time period stands out to me as him not caring overly much about which way the lynch goes.

It is phrased from the perspective of a town RW seeing Flub's flip. He seems pretty certain that Flub is scum, and my question is what changes in his views if Flub actually flips town instead.

If my top two scum suspects had not been so eager to lynch him, then yes, I'd have been fine with a Flub lynch. He's done quite a bit of floating, and several of his questions or votes could be viewed as OMGUS.

JMich has elected to remain as unreadable as possible. He might be town, but he might just as easily be scum. I can't tell and he doesn't seem inclined to help decipher his alignment, so I'm content with making sure he isn't scum.

Sage was in a similar read pile to JMich and Flub for me before she started getting active. Since then, I've seen some things in her posting that concern me. It doesn't help that RW has been pushing based on the idea of people being absent the day of the lynch, and the first two people off his radar for that are me and Sage. He's given me credit for being present earlier that day, and for my having said that I woke up just before lynch occurred (though too late to actually do anything). I haven't seen anything similar for dropping Sage from the list. He rode JMich for awhile along with Flub, but JMich has disappeared in favor of a focus on Flub.

So please make sure you vote before you have to disappear!

As I've questioned him about this, I'm pretty sure he didn't say anything along the lines of your second sentence. If he did and I missed it, please point to it. Otherwise you're just pulling this out of your rear end, and I'm not sure if it's in the heat of the moment, and that alone.


There's no way to check this now, but were you here when cristigale made her decision and voted yogsloth?


I'm fully behind being reluctant to lynch the claimed PR, but Dessimu wasn't the only lynch candidate, was he? What happened to "Lynch is better than No-Lynch" D1?


[emphasis added]

Are you referring to his post where he switched his vote? If you are, that's not how I read it. And skimming through his ISO doesn't reveal anything either. So, did he say it, or are you reading it in something he said?



That's actually not quite accurate, as you can see from your own Vote Record - the post #198 Vote Count says:

yogsloth @ L-3 - RWarehall, Lifthrasil, JMich, Dessimu

Dessimu @ L-4 - Sage103082, trentonlf, yogsloth
Lifthrasil @ L-5 - Bookwyrm627, medamiedo


Or if you want the votes in the order they were cast:

yogsloth @ L-3 - Lifthrasil, JMich, RWarehall, Dessimu

Dessimu @ L-4 - Sage103082, yogsloth, trentonlf
Lifthrasil @ L-5 - medamiedo, Bookwyrm627

So, you're both liars.

You two are starting to give me a headache again. I was thinking of dropping you two for a while, but I see you replied to me, and I see something that I don't like in your post.


Do you really read that as a genuine town-read of RWarehall? I take that as her being annoyed that her, at the time, top scum-read said something towny beyond the obvious/easy 'town' statements. If she started seeing RWarehall as town at that point, why did she put him back into her scum-reads for most of D2?

It'd be good if she clarified that, but I don't see that happening before D2's end with her sparse appearances lately.


OK, clearer now. One more question, to make absolutely sure I follow you. Aft the time he unvoted, there were a total of three of us not voting (cristigale, me and him). Dessimu was at L-2, and yogsloth at L-3. He couldn't be sure that a lynch would go through (i.e. others coming on and voting in a manner that secures a lynch), could he? So, you're saying that if a lynch went through that it'd be the optimal result for scum, but if it failed, they'd also be happy with it. Is that it? And that makes him scum, yes?

Where do you have trentonlf? Town, leaning town, neutral?


I definitely didn't read that this way.


[emphasis added]

Seriously? You're willing to lynch JMich Today just to make sure he's not scum, when he could be town, and you can't tell either way? Not because he's next on your scum list after your two top suspects, not even because you find him scummy enough? Do I need to remind you that we could find ourselves in a very bad place Tomorrow? There's no guarantee we lynch scum Today, but I don't think that "finding out someone's alignment for sure because we can't read them" is a good enough reason to pick said someone.

Please tell me that I misunderstood something in what you said, because if I haven't, I don't like this one bit.


Is it that hard to be specific?

Where does Bookwyn refer to you as town?

What do you think about the players you have not touched on yet?

@cristigal and @bookwyrm - Don't you think that bring this point out is basically giving scum ideas about keeping Hyper in the game?

Thank you. These explain and give more insight.

Are not going back and reading and looking at what has been posted and why who?
(I bolded)
Again with not really wanting to read and claims its how she plays as town. From all my experience this is more how scum plays as they know everything already and do not need to pay close attention. I know this is your first games here and Ive only players here. ANYONE who plays on other sites or the likes can you tell me if this is different then im used to.

I don't see where you were called town. Just because he didnt say the term scum doesnt mean he said the term town. Also the second paragraph I am not a fan of at all. Again no time for the game. I get we have real lives the this again mentions a reason for not going back and checking things out. I also do not like the Ill follow lift and RW with whatever they want to do. I much prefer each player have reason and actually feel a certain way and not just let someone do the work and then jump on their vote.


**I have made it to post 557. neede to break for dinner will be back to finish soon. I also copied posts to word so I could get the quotes, I apologize if someone doesnt come out right with that.

Actually that's one valid way of looking at it. Flubb falling so silent even though he is starting to look more and more as the only viable lynch is a bad sign in any case. Flubb, is it true? Did you stop fighting back because you are scum being bussed?

I still think, though, that if he is being bussed, then Sage is scum and flubb's vote on Sage is a distancing vote to protect her after flubb flips scum. But I have the impression that she's scum anyhow.

However Bookwyrm, in his latest exchange with HSL, is giving me some pings too...

So the game has 4 scum now and we can determine scum by ongoing wagons, man I guess I had no clue how to play this game. Was not aware that scum was added during the game or that based solely on wagons going on before a lynch it's possible to determine exactly who's scum. I bow to your knowledge of the game that I did not have and thank you for the insight.

On another note, I think I'm going to give flub a reprieve after this post from meda even as stellar as it was and all.

Unvote flub
Vote meda