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alcaray: There are tons of excellent places scattered about the internet for you geniuses to discuss American politics. Why not use one of those?
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LootHunter: ^This... is a perfect message for VtM:B2 developers!
I read the piece linked in the original post and I did not see any political references. Maybe you know something about the new game that I do not. Anyhow, nice deflection!
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LootHunter: ^This... is a perfect message for VtM:B2 developers!
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alcaray: I read the piece linked in the original post and I did not see any political references. Maybe you know something about the new game that I do not. Anyhow, nice deflection!
So arresting people for misgendering is not a part of identity politics?
Post edited July 30, 2019 by LootHunter
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alcaray: I read the piece linked in the original post and I did not see any political references. Maybe you know something about the new game that I do not. Anyhow, nice deflection!
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LootHunter: So arresting people for misgendering is not a part of identity politics?
That was not described in the article. Again, do you know something about the game that I don't? Anyhow, nice straw man!
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LootHunter: So arresting people for misgendering is not a part of identity politics?
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alcaray: That was not described in the article. Again, do you know something about the game that I don't?
Yes. Because unlike you I am not blind and can use logic, instead of hiding behind terms like "straw man".
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alcaray: That was not described in the article. Again, do you know something about the game that I don't?
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LootHunter: Yes. Because unlike you I am not blind and can use logic, instead of hiding behind terms like "straw man".
But it is a strawman if that's not happening in the game. No one said it was, nor was it in any way applied, so...

(It's also not something that happens in real life, either, by the way. No one gets arrested for misgendering someone. Corrected, yes. Reprimanded if they double-down on the misgendering to be an asshole, sure. But arrested? Doesn't happen.)
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alcaray: That was not described in the article. Again, do you know something about the game that I don't?
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LootHunter: Yes. Because unlike you I am not blind and can use logic, instead of hiding behind terms like "straw man".
You are wasting your talents in GOG game forum. You would be a lot happier on 4chan or Breitbart or somewhere like that.
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LootHunter: Yes. Because unlike you I am not blind and can use logic, instead of hiding behind terms like "straw man".
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NateHevens: But it is a strawman if that's not happening in the game. No one said it was, nor was it in any way applied, so...
So, what's in-game explaination why vampires, who shouldn't care for pronoun/transgenderism BS, would call you by your chosen pronoun instead of pronoun depending on sex?

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NateHevens: (It's also not something that happens in real life, either, by the way. No one gets arrested for misgendering someone. Corrected, yes. Reprimanded if they double-down on the misgendering to be an asshole, sure. But arrested? Doesn't happen.)
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alcaray: There are tons of excellent places scattered about the internet for you geniuses to discuss American politics. Why not use one of those?
An observation isn't politics.
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alcaray: There are tons of excellent places scattered about the internet for you geniuses to discuss American politics. Why not use one of those?
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lordhoff: An observation isn't politics.
Don't know how to respond... If you say an ankle looks sprained, is it not a medical observation? If you say the meat is overcooked is it not a culinary observation? I really can't get your statement to make sense.
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lordhoff: An observation isn't politics.
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alcaray: Don't know how to respond... If you say an ankle looks sprained, is it not a medical observation? If you say the meat is overcooked is it not a culinary observation? I really can't get your statement to make sense.
Well, you said that an article where devs say that they "take a political stance on what is right and wrong" is not politics. Did it make sense to you earlier?
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alcaray: Don't know how to respond... If you say an ankle looks sprained, is it not a medical observation? If you say the meat is overcooked is it not a culinary observation? I really can't get your statement to make sense.
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LootHunter: Well, you said that an article where devs say that they "take a political stance on what is right and wrong" is not politics. Did it make sense to you earlier?
First, my dialog with lordhoff is not about the game but is about whether lordhoff made political statements. (After posting it occurred to me that maybe he thinks that the words political and partisan mean the same thing. It would explain his response to me.)

Second, the quote you reference in proper context:

'“Technological progress is a big deal and people are going to make money doing it. But what’s the cost? One of the things we really wanted to do was narrow in on a major conflict that can truly, reasonably be seen from both sides. As much as I loved being in Seattle in the 90s, and I’ve lived most of my life in Seattle, but at the same time I make video games for a living. I am not innocent of the tech boom.
“It is a political game but I think it’s one of those few opportunities that gives us the chance to let people make their own political statement in a way that’s not cheap. I don’t believe you can look at both sides of a political argument without understanding both sides. It’s easy to say this is good and this is bad. But it’s definitely taking some political stances on what we think are right and wrong. In terms of the main conflict what is interesting is it’s one of those truly balanced issues.”''

This is what I've watched and read in the media since the 50's and played in games since the 70's. It is usually a parade of cliches - mad scientists, corrupt politicians, greedy businessmen, gangsters, Nazis. Did you not watch the X-Files or 24? Play Deus Ex or Baldur's Gate? The VTMB2 guys don't say anything in that quote that I have not heard a hundred times before. And in any case, whatever they say or do, it does not justify turning GOG game forum into a political blog.
Post edited July 31, 2019 by alcaray
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alcaray: proper context:
What "proper context"? I don't see how the part you quoted changed the meaning of "we take a political stance on what's right and wrong" statement.

And no, I haven't seen this kind of statements in 80-s, 90-s, and even early 00-s. In fact, I've seen some Warren Spector, and Cris Karter interviews and none of them said something to this extent. But guess, who did? The staff who made Star Trek: Discovery.
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lordhoff: An observation isn't politics.
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alcaray: Don't know how to respond... If you say an ankle looks sprained, is it not a medical observation? If you say the meat is overcooked is it not a culinary observation? I really can't get your statement to make sense.
This is getting way off track so all I'll say is that I view a political statement (and what follows is one) as one that takes sides, not a vent of frustration in the state of things in my country where we allowed our government to become way too powerful causing entire sections of it to feel disenfranchised. It's be better to split into two or more countries at this point but that won't happen.
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alcaray: Don't know how to respond... If you say an ankle looks sprained, is it not a medical observation? If you say the meat is overcooked is it not a culinary observation? I really can't get your statement to make sense.
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lordhoff: This is getting way off track so all I'll say is that I view a political statement (and what follows is one) as one that takes sides, not a vent of frustration in the state of things in my country where we allowed our government to become way too powerful causing entire sections of it to feel disenfranchised. It's be better to split into two or more countries at this point but that won't happen.
After I responded, I wondered if we were using different definitions for the word politics. I like Webster's take on it:

a : the art or science of government
b : the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy
c : the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government
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LootHunter: So, what's in-game explaination why vampires, who shouldn't care for pronoun/transgenderism BS, would call you by your chosen pronoun instead of pronoun depending on sex?
Because it's fucking 2019 and why do you care? You can choose whatever damn pronouns you want in the game. I don't see how this affects you so personally that you're offended enough by it to complain. If this is what passes for "politics" to you... I mean I already know what passes as "not politics" to you... and that says nothing good about you. https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/02/15/trans-woman-mail-sunday-trump/

The woman was arrested for quite literally doxxing the trans woman and sharing her personal medical details on Twitter. Not for misgendering her. You would do well to check more than one source for a story... especially when your source is The Sun.
Post edited August 02, 2019 by NateHevens