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Ikaros_Nekros: And what's your point?
That you don't understand history?
Because the fall of Rome is more connected to the christianity's acceptance and dominance than to the "moral decadence" you talk about.
Just to remember, the empire's peak was with it's morally and sexually dubious emperors, like Nero, Caligula, and Trajan.
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LootHunter: Peak of what? Debauchery and tyranny? This is exactly lordhoff's point - "the enlightened world" you're so eager to bring will see common folk living in poverty, while elite will stagnate in their own bubble, while the states of US and Europe will grow weaker up until a new "alt-right" or whatever radical movement will take over and reshape all those coutries, llike Christian Church did with Roman Empire.
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Ikaros_Nekros: The post-iluminism historians that believed human progress was stoped during the "middle age".

And just to remember, the Roman Empire was far more progressive in it's views than the right wing fools that claim to know some history say.
They were libidinous, accepted transsexualism and prostitution, and didn't have the identity of European. For they, the rest of the Europe, were a bunch of uncultured barbarians.
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LootHunter: You're just contradicting yourself. Either "middle ages" were times of ignorance and barbarism after the fall of "progressive" Roman Empire, or they were time of progress under Christianity. You can't have it both ways.
Thank you for elucidating the problems of my rhetoric.

In first place, when i said the peak of the empire, it was it's peak. Of it's culture, economics and military. They were tyranical? Yes, Although they where not as such they were later portrayed. If you research, even the christian persecution was not so global in the empire during those days, but was exagerated later by christian historians - there are only two primary sources (this mean that was wrote during those times, and not later) about any persecution to christians, both refer to only local actions, and not along the empire, all the others sources come from the hands of the christian, long after.

But of course the empire was a government, and government is a way to power, so corruption and very serious social problems existed: altough hunger where no so widespread, but slavery was. The rich, and the governors - that was also rich - could do anything they wanted, and so on... The same as today, to be sincere witth you.

About the middle ages, there was a huge loss in quality of life and in free intelectual thinking. But researches in many fields, medicine, philosophy and astronomy for instance, was kept. But it should bow to the will of the church particularly in the late Middle Ages. The notion of the "night of the western civilization" is wrong, because of this implicate that progress, especially scientific, stopped, and that is not true. The influence and mold of the church during the middle ages was both good, and bad, and there are many sides of the question, too many to a simple forum in a game.

And for the third appointment you made, i was refering to the view the romans during its height had of the cultures that didnt born in Rome, or where completely absorbed by the Empire. The term barbarian, comes from greek "barbaroi" and means all that are not greek. The word was later adapted to latin, barbarius, that means outsider, foreign. Later, about the XVI century, the term got another meaning, the modern one, to the describe something or someone rude, uncivilized, and savage. So, to the romans, the nordics and christians where barbarians, although the christians, during the twilight years of the empire, where absorbed, and later officialized. The irony is that the officialization was so late in the empire's life, that there is modern historians, particularly the ones i described in my other post, who believed the christianity was solely guilty to bring the downfall of the empire.

And to end my argument: I dont intend or want to bring the Roman Empire back. That i leave to the italian ultranationalists, aka fascists - the most basic definition of fascim is "ultranationalist populism". They where all about bringing the Roman Empire back during WWII. What i say is: the idea that the so-called decadent emperors lead to the downfall of the empire is wrong, and that the empire was strong at this moment, culturally, ecomonically and militarily. Second, the problem of debauchery and that the elite will stagnate in their own bubble is universal to any system of power. Be it captilalism, feudalism, absolutism, or any system that has a vertical structure. The church was not better than the romam empire, they where all living a life of luxury and confort at the expense to its subjects. As the CEO's and presidents in our modern days.

Power is the problem. With it come privileges, and with privileges come inequality. And this is the root of the evils that persist to this day.

I hope now i became more clear.
And again, thank you for elucidating some problems of my rhetoric. Although some things you misunderstand, i understand i was a llittle confusing.
Post edited December 14, 2019 by Ikaros_Nekros
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alcaray: Why would anyone in their right mind go to Twitter and say something like you suggest? Does this controversy come from provocations like this?
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LootHunter: No, it comes from people on Twitter who go to GOG forum and other places. But since you were lucky enouth not to stumble on them here, I suggested you the way to find them. After all you ASKED how to find those people. Or was it just YOUR provocation?
I do frequent the web, just not twitter and facebook. I go to forums for online periodicals for gaming, sure, but also for news and for other interests I have, etc. I hang out on IMGUR an hour a day, or so. At these places (to repeat myself) I often see complaints about, apparently, an entire society of crazy people who I never meet online nor have I ever seen one at work or otherwise irl. If it is provocation for me to bring that up then sorry I provoked you.

I asked where to find them, not how to provoke people. Holy crap if you want to hurt my feelings/trigger me then just say "old farts are close to death", or something. If you go around making statements like that on the internet just to "identify" people who respond, then yours is the offense.
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Ikaros_Nekros: ...
Dude, what is wrong with you?
Post edited December 14, 2019 by alcaray
Glad I deactivated my social media accounts, if I'm going to listen to people bitch about their so-called repressed rights, genders and other lunatic shit that will make Nazis blush every single day, I'd rather stick to playing games instead too.
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Ikaros_Nekros: Power is the problem. With it come privileges, and with privileges come inequality. And this is the root of the evils that persist to this day.

I hope now i became more clear.
Yes, you did became more clear. I won't argue all BS you've written about history, as it indeed will take too much time and effort for the topic that is beyond this thread.

The only thing I want to ask you. If you consider power to be a problem and want to build society with all people being totally equal, how are you going to stop some of those people to acquire power without having power yourself?
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LootHunter: No, it comes from people on Twitter who go to GOG forum and other places. But since you were lucky enouth not to stumble on them here, I suggested you the way to find them. After all you ASKED how to find those people. Or was it just YOUR provocation?
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alcaray: I do frequent the web, just not twitter and facebook. I go to forums for online periodicals for gaming, sure, but also for news and for other interests I have, etc. I hang out on IMGUR an hour a day, or so. At these places (to repeat myself) I often see complaints about, apparently, an entire society of crazy people who I never meet online nor have I ever seen one at work or otherwise irl.
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Ikaros_Nekros: ...
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alcaray: Dude, what is wrong with you?
Well, you've just met one of THOSE people. Congratulations! And you haven't provoked anyone to do so. Or have you?
Post edited December 14, 2019 by LootHunter
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LootHunter: No, it comes from people on Twitter who go to GOG forum and other places. But since you were lucky enouth not to stumble on them here, I suggested you the way to find them. After all you ASKED how to find those people. Or was it just YOUR provocation?
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alcaray: I do frequent the web, just not twitter and facebook. I go to forums for online periodicals for gaming, sure, but also for news and for other interests I have, etc. I hang out on IMGUR an hour a day, or so. At these places (to repeat myself) I often see complaints about, apparently, an entire society of crazy people who I never meet online nor have I ever seen one at work or otherwise irl. If it is provocation for me to bring that up then sorry I provoked you.

I asked where to find them, not how to provoke people. Holy crap if you want to hurt my feelings/trigger me then just say "old farts are close to death", or something. If you go around making statements like that on the internet just to "identify" people who respond, then yours is the offense.
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Ikaros_Nekros: ...
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alcaray: Dude, what is wrong with you?
Sorry man, I know i had gone too far... But, as someone that studies medieval history in college, i like to correct historical misconceptions
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LootHunter: The only thing I want to ask you. If you consider power to be a problem and want to build society with all people being totally equal, how are you going to stop some of those people to acquire power without having power yourself?
Complete cultural change, not through enforcement, but through slowly changing the minds to leave behind the concept of power. Although, I will not see this change in my life. May take many generations even.
That said, i think the most important profession to change the future are teachers.

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LootHunter: Well, you've just met one of THOSE people. Congratulations! And you haven't provoked anyone to do so. Or have you?
Nothing against him. I was just answering you. As is the place to you say your BS, as it's mine to answer with mine BS. That's the nature of forums.

And to answer a previous post you did:
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough! HAVE AT YOU!
Post edited December 14, 2019 by Ikaros_Nekros
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LootHunter: The only thing I want to ask you. If you consider power to be a problem and want to build society with all people being totally equal, how are you going to stop some of those people to acquire power without having power yourself?
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Ikaros_Nekros: Complete cultural change, not through enforcement, but through slowly changing the minds to leave behind the concept of power.
But to do that you need a power to change minds. You still don't get it. People are not cattle, who will follow you. Not all of them anyway. Many will resist. Some even start "cultural change" in other direction. Even if you achieve your society without "concept of power", there is no guarantee that someone will introdice this concept again. And since others don't have power that person will take all of it.

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LootHunter: Well, you've just met one of THOSE people. Congratulations! And you haven't provoked anyone to do so. Or have you?
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Ikaros_Nekros: Nothing against him.
Good for him. Since he complained that he couldn't meet social activists on the Internet and didn't want to provoke anyone to make that happen.
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Ikaros_Nekros: Complete cultural change, not through enforcement, but through slowly changing the minds to leave behind the concept of power.
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LootHunter: But to do that you need a power to change minds. You still don't get it. People are not cattle, who will follow you. Not all of them anyway. Many will resist. Some even start "cultural change" in other direction. Even if you achieve your society without "concept of power", there is no guarantee that someone will introdice this concept again. And since others don't have power that person will take all of it.

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Ikaros_Nekros: Nothing against him.
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LootHunter: Good for him. Since he complained that he couldn't meet social activists on the Internet and didn't want to provoke anyone to make that happen.
Utopian communities have never worked (as well as I can recaqll) mainly due to human nature.
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lordhoff: Utopian communities have never worked (as well as I can recaqll) mainly due to human nature.
True. But the thing is, society that our reptilian overlord suggests isn't even utopian. It's more like in 1984, where people aren't allowed even to think certain ideas and the language is policed to prevent that. Society that people aren't allowed to know that they have power to change things.
Post edited December 15, 2019 by LootHunter
This thread doth rob me of my very humaniteee
People who say this shit are idiots, this gets said about literally everything. These people literally think that they can run into a room and tell everyone the devs of a game are going to treat mental illness with respect and it's gonna scare people away from playing.
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Ikaros_Nekros: We are not afraid of who that do not bow to the so-called agenda. But to the world you will subject us. Afraid of suffering constant prejudice. Because it's clear that you have, and want to spread.
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Yunipuma: Let me be honest - I have NOTHING at all against gay people themselves. Everybody has the right to live his/her life as he/she sees right.
But I have EVERYTHING against LGBTQ ACTIVISTS, those bastards who DEMAND that I MUST accept THEIR rules. To them I have only this to say: fuck you all!
So translation you have things about gay people, just afraid to fully own up to that stance. You're literally having a tantrum on random game forums because IDK a transgirl asked you not to insist on calling her sir or something. Not sorry to say the world is moving on, and you can move on with it or be left behind.
Post edited December 24, 2019 by RoadTheExile
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RoadTheExile: People who say this shit are idiots, this gets said about literally everything. These people literally think that they can run into a room and tell everyone the devs of a game are going to treat mental illness with respect and it's gonna scare people away from playing.
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Yunipuma: Let me be honest - I have NOTHING at all against gay people themselves. Everybody has the right to live his/her life as he/she sees right.
But I have EVERYTHING against LGBTQ ACTIVISTS, those bastards who DEMAND that I MUST accept THEIR rules. To them I have only this to say: fuck you all!
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RoadTheExile: So translation you have things about gay people, just afraid to fully own up to that stance. You're literally having a tantrum on random game forums because IDK a transgirl asked you not to insist on calling her sir or something. Not sorry to say the world is moving on, and you can move on with it or be left behind.
From now on, I demand everyone refer to me as his royal magesty, emperor of the universe at it's center or I'll get mad. The world is moving on.
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RoadTheExile: People who say this shit are idiots, this gets said about literally everything. These people literally think that they can run into a room and tell everyone the devs of a game are going to treat mental illness with respect and it's gonna scare people away from playing.
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Yunipuma: Let me be honest - I have NOTHING at all against gay people themselves. Everybody has the right to live his/her life as he/she sees right.
But I have EVERYTHING against LGBTQ ACTIVISTS, those bastards who DEMAND that I MUST accept THEIR rules. To them I have only this to say: fuck you all!
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RoadTheExile: So translation you have things about gay people, just afraid to fully own up to that stance. You're literally having a tantrum on random game forums because IDK a transgirl asked you not to insist on calling her sir or something. Not sorry to say the world is moving on, and you can move on with it or be left behind.
If you mean I have something about a fucking minority ORDERING me to accept THEIR PUBLIC WAY of life - then YES, I HAVE EVERYTHING ABOUT THESE SCUM. Private life is sacred for each individuals, but public life is decided on opinions of MAJORITY. Deal with it.
And if you call this "gay is natural" shit a "the world is moving on", then I gladly be left behind. But if you insist on forcing me to "move on" I will fight you anyway I can.
Post edited December 25, 2019 by Yunipuma
It's amazing we're still going on like this. Eh, when WW3 comes, those so-called "rights" and "acceptance" people force to the public won't save them from a hail of bullets anyway.
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LootHunter: The only thing I want to ask you. If you consider power to be a problem and want to build society with all people being totally equal, how are you going to stop some of those people to acquire power without having power yourself?
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Ikaros_Nekros: Complete cultural change, not through enforcement, but through slowly changing the minds to leave behind the concept of power. Although, I will not see this change in my life. May take many generations even.
That said, i think the most important profession to change the future are teachers.
Yeah good luck with the whole attempt at removing power thing - there will always be those who want power over others, just as there will always be those who willingly accept someone else's power and follow them. This has about as much chance of working as communism, since both concepts go against human nature.

As for teachers - not sure about your country, but in my country teachers tend to be so radically left-wing as to be retarded. Not that long ago a bunch of teachers, instead of actually doing their job and teaching their students something, instead took them to a massive climate change protest. Apart from shirking their responsibilities, this also instilled retarded ideas into their students: namely, that our country (Australia) can realistically hope to do anything about climate change (we currently contribute less than 1% to total worldwide CO2 emissions). This also demonstrates that teachers both wield and enjoy power, so (thankfully) there is no chance of them attempting to spread this insane idea of a power-less future.
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Ikaros_Nekros: Complete cultural change, not through enforcement, but through slowly changing the minds to leave behind the concept of power. Although, I will not see this change in my life. May take many generations even.
That said, i think the most important profession to change the future are teachers.
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squid830: Yeah good luck with the whole attempt at removing power thing - there will always be those who want power over others, just as there will always be those who willingly accept someone else's power and follow them. This has about as much chance of working as communism, since both concepts go against human nature.

As for teachers - not sure about your country, but in my country teachers tend to be so radically left-wing as to be retarded. Not that long ago a bunch of teachers, instead of actually doing their job and teaching their students something, instead took them to a massive climate change protest. Apart from shirking their responsibilities, this also instilled retarded ideas into their students: namely, that our country (Australia) can realistically hope to do anything about climate change (we currently contribute less than 1% to total worldwide CO2 emissions). This also demonstrates that teachers both wield and enjoy power, so (thankfully) there is no chance of them attempting to spread this insane idea of a power-less future.
From what you just said in regards to Australian teachers, they are similar in the USA.