At least this episode wasn't as boring as the last so I guess that's good news. But other than that...

I think this from a Io9 review covers my feelings pretty well Between the "twists" and all the deaths, blood and guts it really feels like Discovery's writers are just desperately trying to throw in everything that's popular right now.

Other things:

-so what exactly was that doctor (Hugh, I think his name is?) in the "network"? A force ghost? A manifestation of Stammets own psyche? Did his soul ascend into this network after he died? Is the network now a confirmed afterlife in the Star Trek universe?

-I guess no one noticed that the spores vital to the shroom drive were sick and died until now. I guess no one pays any attention to it.

-So now humans from the mirror universe have an aversion to light. Sure. Right. There was never any indication of that before, but who gives a shit, right?

-Burnham really is the dumbest bitch ever, isn't she? "Oh hi, obviously evil cannibalistic ruler of a fascist, cruel empire! Allow me to give you everything you'll need to conquer my universe!"

-The spinny-killy thing used for killing people standing in a circle made me laugh. I know it was supposed to be shocking, but it's hard to be dark and shocking when you rip off Xena.

-I know we're in the evil mirror universe, but with all the blood, guts and now cannibalism, the show is just getting uncomfortable to watch in the most base, primitive manner possible. Star Trek is supposed to be a show you can watch with your kids. To inspire them, to show them ideas that will challenge them and yes, to have fun with them. But Discovery is an edgy teenagers fanfiction, something that mistakes R-rated content for acting grown up, and the result is something that neither kids nor actuall grown ups can enjoy.

At least Lorca being from Mirror Universe somewhat consistent with theory that Stamens and shroom drive were sabotaged. Though I still would like an explaination, how Lorca crossed over and how he knew about shroom drive if evil Stamens was in coma.
The latter. It was directly told.
Probably they just died in a matter of minutes.
They are allergic to JJ's lens flare. :P

I'd say it answers about as many issues as it creates :P

Anyway, I have a better question: how did the mirror Discovery shroom jump if their Stammets is in a coma and on the empress' ship? Remember, the first episode of this arc established that the two Discoveries traded places jumping, like the two away team during transport in the original series episode.

Was it? I guess I'll have to tust you on that, but I must have missed it. I know it was told that the shroom network looking like Discovery is such a manifestation, but I don't recall anything being told about the Doc.

Still should have sounded off an alert on the bridge :P Not to mention it's all apparently entirely unguarded. Hell, they didn't even need to use the idiotic breath-lock thingy this time.

The biggest idiotic thing about the mirror universe has been the same from the very first Mirror, Mirror episode, the only things that really match the universes are people in the series cast.

Even in that first episode Dr McCoy recognized the ship from the spot of acid on the table that he had dropped in the past, and the mirror Enterprise was orbiting the very same planet on a same kind of mission than the real one. But all the other things don't need to match at all, in other words, if only 10 people in both universes are in similar positions, the rest of the universe can be tweaked no matter how much.

In this Discovery version this has degraded even further. Apparently, as expected, for some magical reason the main cast is somehow connected in both universes, but as far as other relations go, entire races in that galaxy are in a position that don't in any way correspond the "real" universe.

It is fortunate that by "coincidence" all matching points are related to those people who we see every week on the bridge. Imagine if those universes were connected, let's say, Vulcan-Klingon political relations. You could set aside entire Federation, as long as Sarek would meet the same Klingons. "In the mirror universe all the main cast members were killed, so they appear in the next episode, thanks for watching."

Probably some weird way when he was renegade. No doubt we will learn that in one of the shocking revelations of next episode.


Because it's daaaaaaark! (You should read it in goofy yet spooky voice:-))


The mirror universe was always quite dumb.
It made very little sense. For some reason basically only thing reversed was human morals. Everything else seemed quite similar to UFP universe.
I think DS9 tried to change it by making the universe much darker/eviler in basically all areas. Almost everyone ther was bad guy, even if they fought for freedom. Or, if not evil, at least not as moral as in the main universe.
Discovery then uses this universe and as it regular universe much darker, it is natural for the show to make the parallel universe absolutely despicable.



Anyway, I went through 2 seasons of Expanse and I find it very good. I wouldn't call it awesome but I am enjoying it a lot.
Certainly a lot more than Discovery.

What I like about is that it feels believable and has much better characters than ST:D. What people do and how they react to events makes sense and while one may not agree with their decisions, I can understand why they act the way they do and most of the time I don't feel like i is only for the purpose of creating drama.
I even like most of the characters in Expanse, even though I don't agree with many of them, I enjoy them as they are. Well maybe except Holden, I still don't like him much.

Then there is Discovery where most things happen only to create more drama or set up some twist, people act dumbly just to move the story the way writers want it ot but can't figure better way to do it and if they had some personality (which I don't think they do), I would say they act out of character.

There is a big difference here between the shows and one of the main reasons why I like one much better thant the other.

I don't think it's "dumb", though I know what you mean. For one thing, it's a product of TOS - a show that always was more about one-off scenarios to explore a particular idea or simply have an adventure than about worldbuilding. Certainly no one planned the Mirror Universe to actually be fully fledged... well universe. It was all about exploring the idea of "what a world that was as wrong as the utopia of Trek is right?"

But I actually like the weirdness that the Mirror Universe is/has become since (except for this no win Disocvery). It's not "just" a parallel universe, but really a mirror. It exists not because of any logical rules of a multiverse, but to be a dark twist on everything from "our" world. It's almost lovecraftian to a degree. Just something dark and wrong

I was impressed with so many things in Expanse this season - the characters, the tight plot and the way all the plots intertwine, the tension and immediacy it builds without ever being exploitative or making weird leaps of logic. But maybe most I was impressed how among all the politcs, political and persoanl conflict and everything else it still has time to skill to be awed by space. Like in that scene where they're piloting Rosinante around the moons.

Actually the original TOS version made the most sense of all "mirror" versions.
They had the same ship with the same crew orbiting the same planet on the same mission with the same crew members using the same transporter at the very same moment in both universes. As unrealistic as it was, it was actually a "mirror" where most actions (again, involving only the show cast...) seemed to be simultaneously mirrored.

But in this most recent version of it they have some characters alive, some dead in different universes, different family etc. relations and entire races having different mutual connections, as long as there is some kinds of things to keep the cast interacting with each other.

You are right that the original mirror was kind of funny more than it was dumb, but these later attempts to create mirror universes have been just embarassingly bad in every way.


Now, the thing that I have always wondered is that in one TNG episode we are shown that all possible outcomes that can happen do exist as parallel universes. Some are more similar, some are less similar to the "real" universe. We have never been given an explanation though, as to whether or not this mirror universe is just one more layer in that infinite matrix of possible outcomes for the universe, or whether this mirror universe is actually something else.

If the former is the case, then why whenever our heroic cast of Star Trek: [insert name here] enters a parallel universe, it is always the same one? If the latter is the case, are there parallel universes within the mirror universe as well, where possible outcomes exist as their own layers within that mirror matrix?

I guess after like 10000 Star Trek episodes it's not possible to expect any kind of consistent pattern here, but it has always bothered me that we are shown that there are several parallel universes and such, (the mirror, those endless outcomes, Nexus, alternate timeline etc.), but we are never given a full picture on how these things interact and is it possible to go back and forth and all that between them. In the alternate timeline universe, does mirror Soran exist in the Nexus?

If they ever start showing the first season on cable/sat (or a streaming service I actually subscribe too) then I might actually check this out... I watched the first episode and wasn't thrilled about it. Based this thread is looks like I'm not missing much.

I always assumed it's that "something else". That's what I meant when I said it exists outside of any logic of the multiverse. I admit it's just my own musings on the subject, but I always thought of it as something like the other side of "our" universe, like a dark side of the moon. It's not another moon, but a side of this one.

ANY tv show would be more enjoyable than Discovery. However, in my opinion the closest show in themes and stile to Discovery is Dark Matter. Have you seen it?

It was great to finally get to see the true Lorca, without anything to hide. The bad part is that this means that he won't probably be in the show in season 2. :( Or will he? We only know the Emperor's side of the story, I can't wait to hear his.

As heart-breaking as the doctor's death was, I hope he doesn't return permanently. Sometimes dead should be dead. If you abuse the resurrection trope things will start feeling less impactful, and it's too soon to play that card. I am more interested in Mirror Stamets and what he is capable to do (scientifically and morally).

I must confess I am glad with the "cannibalism" (technically it wasn't, but still...) and other darker scenes. For the first time the Mirror Universe feels scary instead of campy.

Also, I was reading some past episode recaps and it's amazing how the "everybody is photosensitive" has been hidden in plain sight since they arrived to the Mirror Universe.

I'm just waiting to see who's gonna be captain in season 2. There are basically 4 options:

-the "real" Lorca - we don't know what happened to him, so he might not be dead and maybe he'll be found or rescued or whatever to be the captain

-Saru - would make some sense to promote him if he gets the ship and crew out of this mess. And I'd love to see an alien as a captain of a show-central ship for once.

-someone entirely new - the easiest option, just introduce a whole new character

-Burnham - god help me, but I can actually see the writers of this being stupid enough to do this. It would make less than no sense, but that's hardly new for Discovery :P


It was? Huh.

My favorite would be Lorca, so we have more than one season of Jason Isaacs. I've also been wishing for an alien captain in a Star Trek show for a long time (or just more aliens in the crew), so Saru would be interesting if they give him more material to develop the character.


Well, Stamets and he were genuinely happy together. Discovery needs some bright moments too. Now I can only see the adorable Tilly performing that role. ;)

My big problem with Stammets and by extention everything to do with him, is that when we first meet him he's basically an insufferable asshole. He only became the much nicer, more likeable guy he's now after he got high on his shrooms. So now, I don't really know if the guy we're watching is anything like the "real" Stammets, or is it all just shrooms talking. He's sudden personality change is never spoken about, the show just glossed over that and moved on.

It could just be Early Installment Weirdness. Only time will tell if the mushrooms had something to do with it or the writers just decided to adjust his personality.