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General discussionHarry Potter and GOG Mafia #64(1552 posts)(1552 posts)
(1552 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 24, 2020
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Microfish_1: can be, it is called a Survivor.
I said a role that wins if lynched, not one that wins if any faction wins.

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Microfish_1: I get that you've said that your PM gave an option for a 3rd party, but ZFR is experienced enough to not give the town the edge of knowing for sure if there are two or three parties.
And I personally don't think OP would confuse me with a third option in my starting PM that he'd never need to use.

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Microfish_1: To be safe, assuming and bank on the fact that we have 2 scum remaining in play.
You know what they say about assuming, right? o.0 ;)

But in all seriousness, I assume almost nothing in these sorts of games...especially the more unique ones.

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Microfish_1: @Carradice: Are you the GF?
If you expect a possible GF!Carradice(or ANY GF) to answer this trufhfully I got this bridge(to hogwarts) i'd like to sell ya. ;)

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Microfish_1: I don't see the issue with Flocke taking exception to the use of the word "hygienic" the way you seem to be; I know that jokes sometimes don't cross heart-language lines very well.... I have told too many jokes that people of other countries have told me weren't funny when translated into their heart-language (the language you think in, no matter what it is) or their humor was such that they just didn't find it amusing.
I think Flocke meant Carradice's posts/charts were too "analytical/etc" and thus too "hygenic" based on his understanding of how such game played out.

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Microfish_1: @Pooka @Carradice At this stage of the game, vote-hopping is bad, yes, but allowing another GOG D1 repetition toDay (d4) is equally bad or worse.
Agreed, for anyone that does such.

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Microfish_1: @Everyone who isn't Carradice. Keep in mind that as town as I think he is, there is the possibility that he is 3rd party or even scum. I doubt it, but we won't know for sure until we find the scum. Ergo, take everything he says with a grain of salt.
I do that with most players not locked town(or close to it) already, to varying degrees.
Posted February 24, 2020
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GameRager: I said a role that wins if lunched, not one that wins if any faction wins.
Ah, true.

yes, Jester

SHHHH! i was trying to sneak one in hoping for another "yes to all"
iirc there was talk about a "hygienic lunch" and i saw flocke object to that term....
Posted February 24, 2020
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Microfish_1: yes, <a href="http://www.gog.com/forum/general/harry_potter_and_gog_mafia_64/post1037" class="link_arrow"></a></div>If we have one of those in-game they better do a "dance down the stairs" (like in the latest joker film)if they win. <div class="quot"><span class="bold">[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oi_3qy1si4]Or this :D
(Relevant bit starts at 1:17)

(@OP: Above is NOT a vote)

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Microfish_1: SHHHH! i was trying to sneak one in hoping for another "yes to all"
Eh, that was the SH game...this is a different type of game so I play it different. :)
Posted February 24, 2020
EBWOP/Fixed text from above:

If we have one of those(Jesters) in-game they better do a "dance down the stairs" (like in the latest joker film) if they win.
Or like this :D
(To micro/all: Relevant bit of vid starts at 1:17)

(@OP: Above is NOT a vote)
Posted February 24, 2020
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Carradice: Extensite math doctorate thesis on Mafia analysis
Man, you really do love your math. I like it a lot (or I wouldn't pursue a career in programming), but you take it to another level. I don't think I am smart enough to understand your layman explanation.

I trust you to have done your job correctly. I also trust you to give me a headache if I attempt to understand all your calculations. :)

But while I do see the value your spreadsheet can bring, excuse me if I prefer to focus my attention in the more traditional methods. If I put too much weight in your spreadsheet I will end up forgetting to listen to what my gut tells me. Like an echo chamber I will end up suspecting who everyone else already suspects instead of thinking for myself.

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Carradice: It has been brought to the attention of all, repeatedly, that lurking is an easy, cheap way of staying out of trouble. In the end, we are punishing those who participate more, and rewarding those who lurk. This should not be the case.
I admit the shoe fits me somewhat. I do not write as often as most others, or even as much as I'd actually want. But I have an explanation for that. It doesn't entirely means I should be given a free pass, of course. But I will explain my weekly routine.

I can divide my week into basically three sections: weekdays' daytime at work, weekdays' nights and weekends. At the weekends I spend a lot of time with my girlfriend who I don't get to see all week, and sorry everyone but she has all the priority over any forum in the world. (Also during these days I live at my parents and the computer I use there isn't the same I use the rest of the week, you'll see why that is important below.)

During weekdays I work at a job that is usually low rush with eventual stretches of "Death march". Nonetheless that's the time when I post the most in this forum. But when deadlines approach I have to concentrate in my work and ignore Gog most of the day for several days. Unfortunately I have been dealing with an unplanned deadline these past few weeks, I can explain it all in more detail if someone wants me to.

Week nights OTOH allow me a lot of free time. Problem is, I have had trouble with the house I rent and the ISP I used to sign up and I had to cancel them. I have plans to move out to another house and get another ISP, but until I do my computer is absolutely internet-free. (Thank Gog for DRM-free games.)
Combine all these factors and you get that most of my time playing Mafia is made at a job that has had me running to put out fires these past few weeks when it's usually very laid back. Thankfully I just completed some bigger tasks and now the rush will cool down for about a month.

Pooka can testify I pretty much told them my regular routine when we were talking in the observer thread of the last Secret Hitler — although this conversation happened through PMs.
And I told RedFireGaming my internet-less home situation back in september, anyone can confirm with him as well.

The nightly and the heightened work rush situations bring me another problem: once someone acts thoroughly scummy I have a low chance to be among the first to point it. I help no one if I just repeat "Yeah I was gonna say that thing you said above, that player who you just said looks scummy looks scummy". Should I post LAMIST in order to simply post more often?

With all that out of the way, my next post will have actual meat for the analysis machine. Either tonight if I manage to complete it before going to sleep, or tomorrow morning (holiday, YAY :-) ). And you guys can expect a reasonable increase in post frequency for the next three weeks. Hopefully we can wrap it up long before then.
Posted February 24, 2020
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joppo: Should I post LAMIST in order to simply post more often?
Just have a bot/scipt print out a new post that simply says "town here, now move along citizen" every few hours, maybe? :D

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joppo: And you guys can expect a reasonable increase in post frequency for the next three weeks.
Sounds good. :)
Posted February 24, 2020
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Lifthrasil: @Pooka: how do you know that trent doesn't know if there was a Night 0 chat? And how does that fit with your theory that he is scum? If you believe trent to be scum you should assume that he knows whether he had a N0 chat or not!
cracks neck

What I meant is that if trent is town, he doesn't know if there is a Night 0 chat (or if there is not a Night 0 chat). So the fact he is insistent that there isn't a N0 is suspect. That's pretty much the skinny of it.

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joppo: (Thank Gog for DRM-free games.)
Same. Had an issue with my ISP back in 2015 or so, and bam, no more Steam games for me...but Torchlight from GOG would still be playable and that made me double down on the service with no regrets.

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joppo: Pooka can testify I pretty much told them my regular routine when we were talking in the observer thread of the last Secret Hitler — although this conversation happened through PMs.
Yep, can confirm.
Posted February 24, 2020
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PookaMustard: Same. Had an issue with my ISP back in 2015 or so, and bam, no more Steam games for me...but Torchlight from GOG would still be playable and that made me double down on the service with no regrets.
That is one of the reasons why I keep files downloaded for ALL my bought and paid for steam games/etc, in case I ever need them. :)

(Of course I DO buy a ton on GOG as well, and most digital games I own I own here)
Posted February 24, 2020
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Carradice: @Trent: hoping you are not the first to be processed. It would be nice that you turned out to be a townie.
I'm Town, although it seems I've played poorly as Town this time. yogs snookered me and if you are right on Joe he snookered me as well.


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GameRager: ..
Not a 3rd party, would have been better if I was a 3rd party or scum as I enjoy those roles more.


At this point I am so bleh about the game, I am not abandoning the game and I will answer any questions anyone has of me, but I am tired of trying to analyze everything in my head as to what's going on and who's lying and why. Lynch me, lynch Pooka, lynch Joe, I don't care much who it is anymore. If someone wants to use this as a sign of me giving up because I'm scum, well you'll be wrong but meh whatever happens oh well.
Posted February 24, 2020
I'd like to take [player] to lunch.

Strict reasoning says [another player] might be better from a "clearing the picture" angle, but I suspect [player mentioned in the first sentence] is more suspect and gives a higher chance of finding scum.

I shall wait for Caesar and Joppo to give their promised reports before revealing the above names.

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trentonlf: At this point I am so bleh about the game, I am not abandoning the game and I will answer any questions anyone has of me, but I am tired of trying to analyze everything in my head as to what's going on and who's lying and why. Lynch me, lynch Pooka, lynch Joe, I don't care much who it is anymore. If someone wants to use this as a sign of me giving up because I'm scum, well you'll be wrong but meh whatever happens oh well.
I know the feeling all too well. I probably should have skipped my second game to unwind a bit, but didn't and eventually the drain became too much and I had to step away for a bit. It wasn't that I didn't enjoy playing, because I did. The head games--especially coupled with IRL health issues (now over, mostly)--just became too much for me. I don't see this post of Trent as a scumtell but as honesty.

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Joppo, I do understand. I also appreciate the explanation!

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@GR I don't have room for all my steam games to be downloaded at once, let alone all of my gog installers.

Games like the Mordor games which require 80+GB apiece make me despair somewhat.
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@Joe I hope to someday see a scum bus driver. T'would be interesting and frustrating, especially if it was a hidden (even from that player) trait!
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joppo: 1. Man, you really do love your math. I like it a lot (or I wouldn't pursue a career in programming), but you take it to another level. I don't think I am smart enough to understand your layman explanation.

I trust you to have done your job correctly. I also trust you to give me a headache if I attempt to understand all your calculations. :)

But while I do see the value your spreadsheet can bring, excuse me if I prefer to focus my attention in the more traditional methods. If I put too much weight in your spreadsheet I will end up forgetting to listen to what my gut tells me. Like an echo chamber I will end up suspecting who everyone else already suspects instead of thinking for myself.

2. The nightly and the heightened work rush situations bring me another problem: once someone acts thoroughly scummy I have a low chance to be among the first to point it. I help no one if I just repeat "Yeah I was gonna say that thing you said above, that player who you just said looks scummy looks scummy". Should I post LAMIST in order to simply post more often?
Congrats on the holiday! Sorry about your ISP situation.

1. I agree fully. They are a useful tool (I am glad I don't have to do the math to reason them out, even if I did use a calculator to check one of the early spreadsheets with averages listed.), but they should not take the place of good old gut reasoning.

2. I had the same issue in my early games and was advised during and post games:
[paraphrased] "just spit it out! Yes, you might look like you're playing 'follow-a-random-leader', but your thoughts are on record, which cannot hurt town (unless you give away your PM info too soon, etc), and helps show that you are indeed present and engaged." Also, exact quotes and saying 'yup, this is my opinion' is marginally better than nothing, rewording is better if you have time, as this might present a new approach to some players, as sometimes merely rewording something helps make a concept clear to someone.
I have tried to follow that advice to this day, even though I am still tempted to repeat other players POV instead of reasoning for myself. in the end, if a player is scummy, several people will pick up on the same thing (reference Scene's last Day in 57)

(Is this the point where I should/can post a LAMISS jokepost?)
Posted February 24, 2020
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Microfish_1: (Is this the point where I should/can post a LAMISS jokepost?)
Actually, you were beaten to that by Agent and yogs :P
Posted February 24, 2020
Remember that post from D2? (a few hundred posts ago, now)

Just for fun: Who is holding both @Flocke and @Micro as suspects?
SPF; yogs; Lift; GR; Caesar; joppo; agent

From those, let us say we remove agent:
SPF; yogs; Lift; GR; Caesar; joppo (set 0)

Now, let us remove someone who is Mr Innocent (joppo):
SPF; yogs; Lift; GR; Caesar; (set 1)

From those, who are pushing more against each of @Micro and @Flocke? Are they reasoning in a solid way?

Now, who is on one of the two, but not in both?
trent; Joe; Pooka. (set 2)

Hypothesis: Sets 1 and 2, put together, contain ALL of the scum.

Discuss.
At the time, There were very few voices trying to help Micro, and a single one trying to help Flocke. It felt like being a Cassandra, back then.

Please take a look at set 1, if you have not yet. Then, eggs in the basket, set two. O wonder, the three main suspects in D4.
Posted February 24, 2020
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GameRager: I wonder.....if Trent is a third party that wins if lynched....is that even a thing in mafia games?
It's called a Jester - it's not often used and people tend to complain about it if it is. If Trent IS a jester, and he's only voting for pooka because he thinks it's such a ridiculous thing to do that it's SURE to get him lynched, then... well, that would make me sad.

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GameRager: (The above bit is a joke, in case anyone else's joke meter is also broken :))
:p

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Microfish_1: I shall wait for Caesar and Joppo to give their promised reports before revealing the above names.
What's all this about? Carradice said a similar thing, what's the benefit of everybody waiting around for stragglers before saying what they think? I appreciate a bit of dramatic tension, but...

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Microfish_1: @Joe I hope to someday see a scum bus driver. T'would be interesting and frustrating, especially if it was a hidden (even from that player) trait!
Now there's a thought! When are you going to host a game for us? You show great potential...
Posted February 24, 2020
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JoeSapphire: It's called a Jester - it's not often used and people tend to complain about it if it is.
Jesters break games. Professor ZFR has clearly put a lot of effort in balancing this one and making it interesting. It is safe to consider that there are not jesters in this game.

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JoeSapphire: It's called a Jester - it's not often used and people tend to complain about it if it is.

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Microfish_1: I shall wait for Caesar and Joppo to give their promised reports before revealing the above names.
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JoeSapphire: What's all this about? Carradice said a similar thing, what's the benefit of everybody waiting around for stragglers before saying what they think? I appreciate a bit of dramatic tension, but...
Repeated in case someone did not get it: If you are scum, it is to easy to lurk and let town fight town. This game, at least, has been rewarding lurkers, excepting Flocke, who was ganged upon by scum: yogs, who was the first in targeting him, then voting for him, and SPF, who suddenly became very vocal attacking Flocke for no valid reason, and was instrumental for Flocke's bandwagon gaining traction.

Plus, maybe the stragglers can contribute to analysis.

Joe asking for dismissing the opinion of others brings back memories of yogsloth asking for dismissing RWarehall's views on D2.

@GR: you mentioned what if they continue to lurk: See the example of joppo this weekend: First, he offers an explanation. Second, and this is the important part: using the little time that can dedicate to the game to contribute meaningful posts that bear the apparience of trying to be solving the game.

That cannot be said at all of SPF's posts on Day 1, to name just one example.
Posted February 24, 2020
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JoeSapphire: It's called a Jester - it's not often used and people tend to complain about it if it is.
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Carradice: Jesters break games. Professor ZFR has clearly put a lot of effort in balancing this one and making it interesting. It is safe to consider that there are not jesters in this game.
Yeah, zfr would never design a setup anyone would accuse of being broken. You're right.

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Carradice: Joe asking for dismissing the opinion of others brings back memories of yogsloth asking for dismissing RWarehall's views on D2.
I'm not asking to dismiss the opinion of others! I think you've misread:

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JoeSapphire: What's all this about? Carradice said a similar thing, what's the benefit of everybody waiting around for stragglers before saying what they think? I appreciate a bit of dramatic tension, but...
I'm not saying 'we don't need to hear what the stragglers think'. I'm saying why not tell us what YOU think now? I'm asking what the benefit of holding back information is?


Also, I've asked you a bunch of questions which you've not yet responded to:

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JoeSapphire: Tell me more about these clues.
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JoeSapphire: How do you mean 'mud the waters'?
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JoeSapphire: You agree to what?
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JoeSapphire: Are you saying I'm focusing on a clearly town player?
Are you saying I'm lurking?
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JoeSapphire: is that what you're refering to?
Would you mind? :)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionHarry Potter and GOG Mafia #64(1552 posts)(1552 posts)
(1552 posts)