No donuts for you! I've already said why I would have voted no lynch or not voted, if I thought both of them were town then why would I have voted either of them? I don't vote someone if I think they're town just to achieve a lynch, lynch me if that makes me scum.

Dessimu felt off to me most of he day so I felt he was scum. The fact that he claimed a PR before his lynch meant bubkis because if he had been scum he would have done the same thing.

I don't expect you to acknowledge how your scum buddy cristi was setting me up, it would make her look bad if you did.

The no-lynch thing has been discussed to limbo and back and and usually you acknowledge the value of a flip even if that means mislynching on Day 1. Your opinion may differ from mine sometimes, but don't pretend that the concept of lynching someone to get a flip and a wagon to analyse and information is foreign to you. Especially since town can never be sure about someones alignment. Especially not on Day 1. So we NEED information. The only persons who can be sure about alignment on Day 1 are scum.

And I can't acknowledge something that isn't there. Cristi said that she saw you as scummy. That's all.

But I noticed something: overall your tone is much more aggressive than when you play town. Usually you are quite laid back. Now you accuse Cristi of setting you up (just like you accused HSL of various things last game) and one vote on you is enough for you to state 'it looks like scum will get a mislynch anyhow' - even though there are two other players have the same number of votes on them. Quite exaggerated and a bit hypoctical, wouldn't you agree? ... Well, yes, town-trent probably would. But all in all your tone and playstyle, so far, resembles quite a bit your tone and style in the last game when you came under a bit of pressure.

Not really surprised yogsloth flipped town; I thought him more likely to be town but no Power Role, who was just trying to gauge reactions and sow confusion for scum with his actions. Also not really all that surprised Dessimu was also town; his reserved play and focus on trentonlf and yogsloth made his claim more likely true than not. At least we didn't do scum's job by lynching him.

Since I wasn't around during the discussions close to D1's end, I've gone over those posts during the Night. Regarding yours (#308 and #318), here are a few questions for you:

- When Dessimu claimed, did you go back to re-read him and see if his claim made, or at least could make, sense based on his play, and vice versa?
- If the players around at the time had said they believed his claim, would you have re-voted him?
- Why would you abstaining from the vote necessarily lead to a No-Lynch? Did you think those not voting at the time would let it go to No-Lynch? If so, why did you think that? I know you won't vote someone you don't think scum on D1, but do you think that other townies won't either? Specifically, do you think that if it comes down for them to choose between someone they see as more likely town who quite obviously has no Power Role and someone they don't quite see as scum, who claims one, they wouldn't choose the former over the latter to avoid No-Lynch, and see how things go from there?


Why did it necessarily have to be a case of "the scum out of the two"? You spoke of suspicion D1, and that he didn't alleviate it, and were so convinced of it that you were willing to risk lynching the only investigative role we have. But you never shared what exactly about him was so suspect in your eyes. Not when asked to, and not when you revoted him. Even now, you say just that he felt off.
Since I didn't see what made him scummy in your eyes to vote him in the first place, and since I did ask you for specifics, could you finally share what exactly made him that suspect for you?


So you're sel-ftaught, eh?



I read your clarification, just want to make sure I understand you correctly - is the "I'm not going to" part meant as in "I no longer need to"?


Two questions:

- Do I understand you correctly that you believed Dessimu's claim?
- Does this mean that were you around after he claimed, you'd have unvoted him?


Do you think enough people would be onboard with lynching Dessimu D2?



More to follow after I prepare and have dinner.

One vote?

There would be two votes for Trent if Meda had unvoted me before voting Trent. Either there are intended to be two votes on him, meaning he should be in the lead, or Meda deliberately screwed up her vote switch and didn't actually want to vote Trent.

Which do you think it is, Lift?

Correct. If he survived the night, then I was going to try and keep him from getting lynched on D2 (barring something major).

Since he's dead, it is rendered moot.

I didn't believe the claim, for the reasons that Yog pointed out. So no, I wouldn't have unvoted him since I believed Yog was townier.

If Dessimu survived N1, however, then I'd have tried to keep him from getting lynched on D2, especially if there were two kills on N1. That decision was made based on number of scum and anticipated requirements for scum actions.

When, in the worst case, I might only need two town votes to do it? Yes. Yes, I think that lynch might have been very possible. And even if it wasn't, either he or his targets can be cleaned up later with the extra kills.

Going back to D1 for a bit.

Since everything else is pretty much moot now that yogsloth flipped town, I'm just going to say that you apparently overlooked the specific setup we have, the no-roles flip in particular, and thus were unable to see what yogsloth had been doing with all the (soft)claims as town-play. And you still seem to overlook it. Why is that? Do you think that playing the usual way regarding Power Roles works (better) for town in this setup? If so, why? If not, why do you think that only scum would try to sow uncertainty and confusion, especially as to who may have what role?



How does rule #5 not specifically say it's a majority lynch setup?



Are you saying that he looked scummy to you even before he re-voted Dessimu? If so, what for, and why didn't you mention it earlier?



Reason(s)?



[emphasis added]

Does the part I highlighted mean that, at the time, you thought Dessimu also to be town who false claimed to survive the lynch?


Why only two? There are three Goons, plus two town makes 5 votes. If scum had NK-ed two townies, then we'd be down to seven of us, plus three scum, a total of ten players. In a majority lynch setup, a lynch still requires 6 votes, doesn't it?



And one more question for trentonlf before I go get my late mother's, and my neighbour's, reading glasses to make out what he replied to me.

If you were not scum-reading her, and she had made the same post about another player, would you still consider it as her setting them up?



@mod - Any particular reason you list our votes in the order we signed up every time you post a Vote Count, instead of the order in which votes are cast? What purpose does this serve?

I wasn't sure whether or not to believe it until yogs kept pushing him. The way that yogs was pushing was really town so I assumed he was soft ccing and followed. 1:1 is still better than no lynch which is why I hammered at deadline.

And thanks I forgot.

unvote book
vote trent

Book is trying really hard to townslip and seem like he's all for town's agenda, he is really just manipulative and clearly informed aka scum. Trent is fake, his reads are static nonsense, his "lynch me" is not town ate and he deserves to die.

Yog wasn't confirmed town. Dessimu wasn't confirmed scum. By the time of the claim, only one of the two of them was going to get lynched. Of the two, Yog looked townier.

No, I didn't think Dessimu was town false-claiming. I figured that IF he was town, then he was telling the truth. However, the timing and particular claim were easy choices for scum to make in a similar situation.

12 players to start. 11 alive after D1 lynch, 9 alive after 2 NKs. 9 alive means 5 for majority. 3 goons + 2 town = 5 votes.

hmm, seems a good possibility meda is working for the scum team too. No donuts for you! Now I have to figure out who is the lost townie in all this.

Let's see, I bet it goes like this:

1. Sparse activity this weekend, and when there is it will be minimal content from most
2 Weekend ends and we have 3 days to figure out what direction we should be going
3. town will still run around like chickens with head cut off
4. scum will sit back and love ever minute of it and get another mislynch
5. we will probably lose two more players once night starts
6. We will be down to 7 players and scum will hold 3 of the 4 votes needed to lynch
7. town will now be afraid to actually vote for someone because we will be at LYLO
8. scum will wait it out and jump on the first bad vote and get a mislynch and either win or have to out guess the doctor and win with a NK

yeah, pretty sure we are screwed

I bolded.

If you thought yogs to be more likely town why did you vote for him?

It serves my decision to have them ordered in that specific way. If someone requires the actual sequence of voting/unvoting they will have to do their own research and dig up that information. Fortunately, it's in the public domain and everyone has access to it.

Long, drawn-out Friday. Will catch up after sleep.

Don't know. But the point is, before that post from trent which I quoted was an official vote count. So there was quite definitely, confirmed by mor, only one vote on him.

The way I see it the fact that we don't get role flips means that one of the core tenets of Mafia is even more important than usual: TOWN SHOULD NOT LIE. Period. The only way how we can get reliable information is by flips and if town keeps to the tenet, we can read town flips as confirmation of previous role claims. If town starts lying too, then we lose one of the advantages that flips give us. That's why I decided to take it for granted that Dessimu did not lie and was indeed the Parity Cop. And that's also why I am so mad at yogs for his false-soft-claiming extravaganza. That was pure anti-town play in my eyes.

Unless we lynch scum. That means: you.

You still didn't give a good reply as to why you were so sure about Dessimu's scumminess. Even after HSLs question. You apparently had just your gut feeling and you were willing to risk killing a PR - or alternatively to let no-lynch happen - over a gut feeling. That is not very towny.

And you also still didn't reply to HSL's other question: if cristi would have suspected someone else and not you, would that also be 'setting them up'? ... I'll even extend that question: is suspecting someone generally 'setting them up' ... or is only suspecting you 'setting you up'? What makes you so special that suspecting you - after the way you played - is a sign of scumminess?