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General discussion (archive)GOG Forum Mafia #21 - The End of the World(1047 posts)(1047 posts)
(1047 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 27, 2014
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Telika: ...But Flub says that the 5 representatives of his species...
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flubbucket: Could you quote my post where I state exactly how many are in my race Miss Quote??
Post 541, already mentionned I think in the latest discussions. You meant 4 players plus the mod ? So, 4 or 5 (a fifth may be hiding, unless another group confirms having 5 people).

Now is that the most important ? Compared the the issue I point out about deliberate scum obfuscation and alt account shielding ? If you're only four, it's even nicer, as it narrows it down further. You think that there are only townies in your group, despite of these deliberate identity confusions ?

Or do you deliberately avoid this specific question, Miss Low Hanging Fruit ?
Posted June 27, 2014
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flubbucket: Could you quote my post where I state exactly how many are in my race Miss Quote??
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Telika: Post 541, already mentionned I think in the latest discussions. You meant 4 players plus the mod ? So, 4 or 5 (a fifth may be hiding, unless another group confirms having 5 people).

Now is that the most important ? Compared the the issue I point out about deliberate scum obfuscation and alt account shielding ? If you're only four, it's even nicer, as it narrows it down further. You think that there are only townies in your group, despite of these deliberate identity confusions ?

Or do you deliberately avoid this specific question, Miss Low Hanging Fruit ?
What do you think is most important, accuracy or obfuscation?? You are quoting me as saying something then waving it off as not the issue. Was not DarkoD13 having something of an issue with accuracy a bit ago??

Now tell me what I can do in my Quick topic to remedy the issue?? I can not address anyone of my race directly so interrogation is out. If someone is being anonymous because they don't trust or are a traitor what do I do?? Have I stated anywhere that there are only townies in my group??

OR FROM THE FUCKING BEGINNING HAVE I OPENLY EXPRESSED MY CONCERN OVER INFILTRATION YOU FUCKING MORON?!?!?!?!?

Oops... sorry I must have pressed caps lock by mistake.....carry on
Posted June 27, 2014
Oooh what to do what to do this is so hard.

Copy-paste in your subforum :

"Oh my oh my, i think that there are some bad guys in our group, and they have been posting things under false names for no good reason. so it would be awesome if each townie in our group would post about not having posted this anonymous text nor that anonymous text nor that one anonymous text : it would sure help us flush out the scummiest ones amongst us even if we would not be able to tell him anything directly."

It would make you look way more clever there than here. I promise.
Posted June 27, 2014
It does sound like a little but silly restriction, as there is just so many ways of working around it and communicating with directly addressing each others...

Definitely not something that can be used as an excuse if you really want to try.
Posted June 28, 2014
I've only read up until post 495, but I thought I'd attempt to be more active in the game by posting some of my thoughts as I went along.

I really don't care for Ixam's, 'Telika jumped in with "You're Scum" WALL OF TEXT. I'm very much "here's what I think and why, here's my vote" and whenever I see someone tossing up walls of text my first thought is drowning out those other voices...' comments in post 460. Though he does soften the statement somewhat by saying that perhaps this is something he should reconsider, I think that seeing an well thought out, in depth post and saying to oneself, "Well, I don't want to read that, let's lynch him." is incredibly scummy thinking. Ixam is a bad man.

Also, having seen numerous posts of Telika's where he mentions my 'too scummy to lynch' line of thought, I'd like to again explain why I find that someone can indeed be too scummy to lynch. Telika may consider it blatantly ridiculous, but I'd usually think of it this way: If we were in some sort of comic book Italianate town with a mafia presence, I'd be more likely to suspect the suited me that hang around Don Corleone's drinking wine and sinisterly talking about 'business', than I would be to suspect coke-fueled Eduardo Fluboconte who hangs around the town square yelling, "I'll cut you." to passersby and standing under a sign which reads, "Real Mafia Member!"

By which I mean to say that, using a fairly ridiculous metaphor for our situation, it comes down to my belief that flubbucket's intent is to get lynched for an anti-town reason. As stated earlier, I've played alongside flubbucket in a few previous games, and while he has acted strangely in those, he's acting even odder in this one. Therefore, I assumed that he wanted to be lynched because he was some sort of Jester or the like.

Furthermore, I don't think that lynching anyone that appears so overtly scummy is necessarily a pro-town action. Wasting a lynch on a Jester is just that and no more, and is a lynch that could have been used to possibly kill someone else that may be scum. This, of course, assumes a lot of things, and may be poor thinking on my part, but I have a gut feeling about flub's actions, and that gut feeling says, for the time being, don't lynch.

I'm doing little more than rambling at this point, so I should really stop.

Having said all of this, I believe Telika to be town, and feel like this argument is really going nowhere, as we're both not really going to change our minds on this topic. Is there anything else that you have a problem with, my play-style wise, Telika?
Posted June 28, 2014
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CSPVG: Having said all of this, I believe Telika to be town, and feel like this argument is really going nowhere, as we're both not really going to change our minds on this topic. Is there anything else that you have a problem with, my play-style wise, Telika?
I think the two things are :

1) This, and how it conveniently allows you to both peg someone as "obviously" antitown while not taking part in its wagon. All the implications (strong scumsigns should be ignored in favor of weak scumsigns, supposed antitown/mafia much not be lynched because it's probably part of their plan anyway, it's a "waste" to lynch an antitown player instead of lynching randomly or lynching nobody).

2) Whether there is an actual sincere position on the cult-or-killer question, and people hopping from positions to positions with no reason, or implying contradictory beliefs simultaneously, strike me as not having a background 'vision' but a pragmatic rhetorical approach. One sign of this, in my eyes, is when a player implies both that we face a cult, and that scums are numerous from the very start. It's all a matter of "Can he be truly believing this -or both of these- while he's typing that ?".

That being said, I'm middle in a deep re-read. These might be further put in perspective this weekend.
Posted June 28, 2014
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CSPVG: Having said all of this, I believe Telika to be town, and feel like this argument is really going nowhere, as we're both not really going to change our minds on this topic. Is there anything else that you have a problem with, my play-style wise, Telika?
I still find Telika to be slightly scummy. He's managed to pry quite a bit of information out of Flub while really offering nothing of his own intent. He's like the Socratic mafioso.

Now, it COULD be good that we've learned what we've learned about Flub and his group - but I thought he offered enough prior to being forced into spilling every detail.

It COULD also be bad, as scum now have a TON of detail to work with when it comes to Flub's group.
And I'm sorry if I misread Flub's intent on revealing his group details - maybe Telika didn't back him into that corner and it was Flub's desire to do so all along - in which case I suppose I'd find Telika slightly less scummy - slightly...

Also, we're coming dangerously close to a second day without a lynch here, and we still have a lot of lurkers. I know of those lurkers Nmillar is now off my list but I think it's PrimalForm who is very much on it - I HATE those "real life" excuses for lurking and find them very scummy - in other news, I'm going to continue to hide low and lurk hardcore for a few days because my guinea pig's aunt is at the Vets - I'm TOTALLY not just hiding in the background behind an excuse that can't be questioned game-wise.
Posted June 28, 2014
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Ixamyakxim: Now, it COULD be good that we've learned what we've learned about Flub and his group
What we've learnt is that some people are blatantly abusing the potential anonymity of these quicktopics in his group. And that some people are prone to justify it with false arguments (claiming that it's about not wanting to have their species revealed, and yet saying that they have identified enough members to fill a group).

We'll have learnt something useful when we'll know WHO exactly is abusing this system. And, given the situation, this will have to be an "internal" investigation. It would be interesting also to know who shows what level of interest for it.

As we don't have access to the quicktopic where this is all happening, we have to delegate. To the members of Flub's species. More than to Flub himself, who is pretty much below the bottom of the list of people I'd trust for that.
Posted June 28, 2014
*second time, as CSPVG puts it, I'm "walking back" a bit on my interpretation of Telika as scummy*
Posted June 28, 2014
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Telika: .............. who is pretty much below the bottom of the list of people I'd trust for that.
And you're black.
Posted June 29, 2014
You stay classy, San Diego.

I guess we're going for a second no-lynch. Is that a record?
I don't really care about Flub & Co's group. Since most of the people in it (I assume) are town, they should be able to sort things out internally. It's not that difficult. They could even each pick a special word in their quicktopic and then repeat that word here here for identity verification purposes.
Posted June 29, 2014
Hey, just a note that I might not have internet access the next 14 days - however it is only a small risk that it will happen - so if I ain't as active as before it will be the reason. However I doubt it will come to pass.
Posted June 29, 2014
Pot....Kettle.....

It's a reference to those who think of themselves more highly than they ought....
Posted June 29, 2014
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flubbucket: Pot....Kettle.....

It's a reference to those who think of themselves more highly than they ought....
Yeah, but do you have to stare straight at me every time you say it? :P

Also, I am annoyed. Not at flub, that was so 3 seconds ago... No, I am annoyed at the folks that haven't posted squat of significance. I even called a few of them out: SirPrimalform, nmillar, and P1na, and got virtually nothing. At least Robbeasy, the 4th person I not-so-subtly prodded, has come forward with a bit of analysis. SirPrimalform only came up for air long enough to say, and I paraphrase, "nothing significant has gone on, so I am not going to say anything". P1na came on long enough top say that he didn't care enough to even read the previous Day; super. Nmillar only posted to say that he had forgetten about the thread. Yay?

WTF am I supposed to do about voting if the people I want to hear most from don't want to comment about anything? I don't think flub is scum. I could be wrong, but his antics (and really, that is the only word for it) have been wild, but actually seem a bit pro-town on the whole. Ixamyakxim is reading slightly scummy, but not hugely so. He might be scum trying to ride in Flub's shadow a little bit, or perhaps he is actually an honest town player; I keep flip flipping on this. Then there are some others in the wings who lean one way or the other, but there hasn't been enough information for me to base anything solid on.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: the most pro-town action any player can make is to post. This is the only way town can effectively suss out who is scum. We need dots to connect, and without those it is just throwing darts in the dark. Just annoying that some folks don't ever want to post; they can't all be scum.

My early vote on SirPrimalform was intended to be a placeholder. I never intended it to stay on him this long (unless he said something insanely scummy, but he hasn't said much at all). I just haven't been able to find a better target, but there has been so little conversation amongst all of us (just the usual suspects, really).

We need a lynch though, so I will switch my target to the person I feel is mostly scummy looking who currently has votes on him:

Unvote: SirPrimalform
Vote: Ixamyakxim

Now, I need to get another shot of bourbon, I think I might be sobering up...
Posted June 29, 2014
Whoa... I must be a bit more tipsy than I thought:

Unvote: Ixamyakxim
Vote: nmillar

Double checked the votes, and he has two (compared to the one on Ixamyakxim). Also, he is one of the three who most annoyed me. Win/win.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)GOG Forum Mafia #21 - The End of the World(1047 posts)(1047 posts)
(1047 posts)