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Elmofongo: Sisko does look badass though. My impression of him is that he is a fusion of Kirk and Picard.
Not much of Picard to him, really. Other then baldness in the latter seasons ;) He's an interesting and well acted character, and he really is a very different man from both Picard and Kirk, which is a good thing. I just didn't find him quite as likeable as Picard and Kirk or even Archer. That does not mean there is anything wrong with the character, it's just a very subjective feeling.

Janeway might be the only character in all of Star Trek I outright dislike.
Anecdotically, my main issue with TNG is that I cannot stand Troi and Riker. It's too bad because they aren't exactly avoidable...

The original series has for itself the well crafted crew. The new generation has a couple of nice characters and is a bit more polished on many levels, but, geh, Riker/Troi block.
Post edited June 14, 2015 by Telika
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Telika: Anecdotically, my main issue with TNG is that I cannot stand Troi and Riker. It's too bad because they aren't exactly avoidable...

The original series has for itself the well crafted crew. The new generation has a couple of nice characters and is a bit more polished on many levels, but, geh, Riker/Troi block.
I don't hate Troi nor Riker? But there are not my favorite characters so far.

What's your beef with them? Especially Troi?
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Telika: Anecdotically, my main issue with TNG is that I cannot stand Troi and Riker. It's too bad because they aren't exactly avoidable...
I like RIker a lot, and I think him and Picard make a perfect Captain/First Officer team. But I agree that the Riker/Troi relationship is rather bland most times, and I don;t like Troi much at all. But if it wasn't for her we'd never get her mom on the show, so it's worth it :D
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Telika: Anecdotically, my main issue with TNG is that I cannot stand Troi and Riker. It's too bad because they aren't exactly avoidable...
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Breja: I like RIker a lot, and I think him and Picard make a perfect Captain/First Officer team. But I agree that the Riker/Troi relationship is rather bland most times, and I don;t like Troi much at all. But if it wasn't for her we'd never get her mom on the show, so it's worth it :D
OK I am the opposite. I find Troi's Mom annoying.

It's amazing Troi acts more mature and older than her Mom who is acting like a petulant Teenager. (I am referring to that Episode where Mom wanted to marry this guy that is suppose to die as his culture demand)

When she appears before Picard he reacts as if he is doing his famous Facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNsrK6P9QvI
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Elmofongo: OK I am the opposite. I find Troi's Mom annoying.

It's amazing Troi acts more mature and older than her Mom who is acting like a petulant Teenager. (I am referring to that Episode where Mom wanted to marry this guy that is suppose to die as his culture demand)
I like her, because she has a lot of depth and even wisdom beneath that annoying exterior. Maybe you didn't get to those episodes yet (and the best ones are probably the ones in DS9 anyway).
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Elmofongo: OK I am the opposite. I find Troi's Mom annoying.

It's amazing Troi acts more mature and older than her Mom who is acting like a petulant Teenager. (I am referring to that Episode where Mom wanted to marry this guy that is suppose to die as his culture demand)
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Breja: I like her, because she has a lot of depth and even wisdom beneath that annoying exterior. Maybe you didn't get to those episodes yet (and the best ones are probably the ones in DS9 anyway).
She appears in Deep Space 9?
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Telika: Anecdotically, my main issue with TNG is that I cannot stand Troi and Riker. It's too bad because they aren't exactly avoidable...
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Breja: I like RIker a lot, and I think him and Picard make a perfect Captain/First Officer team. But I agree that the Riker/Troi relationship is rather bland most times, and I don;t like Troi much at all. But if it wasn't for her we'd never get her mom on the show, so it's worth it :D
Heck, it's even more primitive than that. Beyond finding Troi and Riker horribly bland as characters, I just - can't - stand - their - faces. And expressions, and attitudes, and, eek. They are just gooey. Gooey I say.

They make the starship look like a cosmetics shop.

Also would it be false to describe the original series' crew as much more "alive" than them, humanly ?
Post edited June 14, 2015 by Telika
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darthspudius: Honestly, I thought Avery Brooks was a much better actor in Star Trek terms. Stewart was great and certainly had his moments but he lacked the different emotions that Sisko gave off.
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Breja: For me he never came close to Stewart. Not to say he was bad, and he had great moments, but on the whole he's just not in Stewart's league. I'd say Brooks would be third on my list if I was to rank the Trek captain actors, after Stewart and Shatner (though Sisko would only fourth if I went by characters - I liked Archer more).
It depends what you're looking for in an actor though. I mean Avery is from a completely different back ground so comparing him to Stewart is a bit odd to begin with. He is a fantastic actor that really did not get a lot of great material in his career but when he did, he really looked great. It's quite a shame.
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Elmofongo: Sisko does look badass though. My impression of him is that he is a fusion of Kirk and Picard.
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Breja: Not much of Picard to him, really. Other then baldness in the latter seasons ;) He's an interesting and well acted character, and he really is a very different man from both Picard and Kirk, which is a good thing. I just didn't find him quite as likeable as Picard and Kirk or even Archer. That does not mean there is anything wrong with the character, it's just a very subjective feeling.

Janeway might be the only character in all of Star Trek I outright dislike.
To be honest, Kirk and Picard are great characters but they did not expand them enough at all. Kirk got some great back ground in the first four movies. But Picard had a great character back ground that they never expanded on very well. What I love about Sisko is his show focuses more on relationships rather than "bad alien, blow it up!". You see him with his family, friends, enemies and Q. It's a lot of different flavours which Kirk and Picard very rarely got to expand upon.
Post edited June 14, 2015 by darthspudius
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Breja: I like her, because she has a lot of depth and even wisdom beneath that annoying exterior. Maybe you didn't get to those episodes yet (and the best ones are probably the ones in DS9 anyway).
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Elmofongo: She appears in Deep Space 9?
At least twice that I can remember. Good episodes too, her relationship with Odo (the shapeshifter security chief) is probably more interesting then with her daughter.
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Breja: I like RIker a lot, and I think him and Picard make a perfect Captain/First Officer team. But I agree that the Riker/Troi relationship is rather bland most times, and I don;t like Troi much at all. But if it wasn't for her we'd never get her mom on the show, so it's worth it :D
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Telika: Heck, it's even more primitive than that. Beyond finding Troi and Riker horribly bland as characters, I just - can't - stand - their - faces. And expressions, and attitudes, and, eek. They are just gooey. Gooey I say.

They make the starship look like a cosmetics shop.

Also would it be false to describe the original series' crew as much more "alive" than them, humanly ?
So Troi and Riker looks too "normal" for the crew? Like it's just a bunch of random people that bumps into a starship?
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Telika: Also would it be false to describe the original series' crew as much more "alive" than them, humanly ?
I wouldn't say that, but I think I know what you mean. The original crew feels like a more colourfull bunch, the ones you'd rather hang out with if given a choice. But TNG gave the whole crew more of a even chance to shine, while in TOS characters outside of the Big Three were always in the background. There is definately a difference between both crews, but I would not say either is inherently superior.
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darthspudius: To be honest, Kirk and Picard are great characters but they did not expand them enough at all. Kirk got some great back ground in the first four movies. But Picard had a great character back ground that they never expanded on very well. What I love about Sisko is his show focuses more on relationships rather than "bad alien, blow it up!". You see him with his family, friends, enemies and Q. It's a lot of different flavours which Kirk and Picard very rarely got to expand upon.
That's not really fair. DS9 allowed to explore characters a little more, their relationships and so on, but Picard we got to see in plenty of very different ways, more son than Sisko I would say. We go to see him as an explorer, a diplomat, a man of action, archeologist, soldier, dealing with Q as both trickster and omnipotent judge, even dealing with children and the fact that Picard was more detached from his family is not the same as lack of background, that is his background and his character. In fact, I found that because Picard was a more private person seeing him form the few relatioships he did on the show, or interacting occasionally with some old friends/family made it more interesting and unique for me.
Post edited June 14, 2015 by Breja
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Telika: Heck, it's even more primitive than that. Beyond finding Troi and Riker horribly bland as characters, I just - can't - stand - their - faces. And expressions, and attitudes, and, eek. They are just gooey. Gooey I say.

They make the starship look like a cosmetics shop.

Also would it be false to describe the original series' crew as much more "alive" than them, humanly ?
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Elmofongo: So Troi and Riker looks too "normal" for the crew? Like it's just a bunch of random people that bumps into a starship?
Not exactly. In fact the original series' crew looked normal, like, real people (even if slightly cartoonishly stereotyped, as the genre requires, as part of the fun). Troi and Riker are like a shampoo commercial's version of jedi wannabees. They look like star trek officer uniforms with nothing inside. It's hard to express what they evoke me. Like an artificial attempt at looking super dignified (while looking actually super creepy - my personal theory is that the Riker character is secretely a smug pedophile all along, it just SAYS SO ON HIS FACE), or at super honouring their super functions of super starfleet super official super officers, or something. They feel bland in an artificial attempt to match a certain idea of "coolness" that I cannot really stomach. Something very far from the relaxed and spontaneous humanity of the crew of the original series, or space1999, or the galactica remake.

They give me the impression of acting in front of a mirror, in a somewhat opposite way from kirk's. Much worse.

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Telika: Also would it be false to describe the original series' crew as much more "alive" than them, humanly ?
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Breja: I wouldn't say that, but I think I know what you mean. The original crew feels like a more colourfull bunch, the ones you'd rather hang out with if given a choice.
Yeah. I'd also say there is something a bit more 'informal' about them. While troi and riker seem really proud of their formal attitudes with some oh-look-how-cool-i-am-within informal "sir dare i smile and make a personal comment to show that i have opinions and humour and stuff sir" pseudo-humanizing twatness here and there.

(I do not like them much.)

(But i do like Picard, and i tolerate Data, and i like the design of blind-guy-with-techno-glasses before he got techno-eyes instead, etc...)
Post edited June 14, 2015 by Telika
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Telika: Also would it be false to describe the original series' crew as much more "alive" than them, humanly ?
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Breja: I wouldn't say that, but I think I know what you mean. The original crew feels like a more colourfull bunch, the ones you'd rather hang out with if given a choice. But TNG gave the whole crew more of a even chance to shine, while in TOS characters outside of the Big Three were always in the background. There is definately a difference between both crews, but I would not say either is inherently superior.
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darthspudius: To be honest, Kirk and Picard are great characters but they did not expand them enough at all. Kirk got some great back ground in the first four movies. But Picard had a great character back ground that they never expanded on very well. What I love about Sisko is his show focuses more on relationships rather than "bad alien, blow it up!". You see him with his family, friends, enemies and Q. It's a lot of different flavours which Kirk and Picard very rarely got to expand upon.
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Breja: That's not really fair. DS9 allowed to explore characters a little more, their relationships and so on, but Picard we got to see in plenty of very different ways, more son than Sisko I would say. We go to see him as an explorer, a diplomat, a man of action, archeologist, soldier, dealing with Q as both trickster and omnipotent judge, even dealing with children and the fact that Picard was more detached from his family is not the same as lack of background, that is his background and his character. In fact, I found that because Picard was a more private person seeing him form the few relatioships he did on the show, or interacting occasionally with some old friends/family made it more interesting and unique for me.
But the problem with those is that they were not fleshed out at all. I mean we saw his hobby once or twice AT MOST. Had we got the chance to see him off the bridge more I would totally agree. But we didn't. What we get instead is slight snippets of what it is to be Picard. Sisko on the other hand fleshed out all his hobbies, relationships and occupation through out the entire seven seasons.

TNG really need less random alien episodes and more personal time for the cast I think. It wasn't until the later series that we finally got stuff to relate to with the Ent D cast.
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darthspudius: But the problem with those is that they were not fleshed out at all. I mean we saw his hobby once or twice AT MOST. Had we got the chance to see him off the bridge more I would totally agree. But we didn't. What we get instead is slight snippets of what it is to be Picard. Sisko on the other hand fleshed out all his hobbies, relationships and occupation through out the entire seven seasons.

TNG really need less random alien episodes and more personal time for the cast I think. It wasn't until the later series that we finally got stuff to relate to with the Ent D cast.
It's all about the show's format. The longer story arcs and character arcs of DS9 made it possible, even necessary to develop the characters more. Character in TOS and TNG had to be painted in broader strokes, because the show focused on single episode stories, there was no time and no need to go in-depth with character background. TNG still did more of that than TOS, and DS9 did even more, because that's the way tv shows were evolving, with Michael Mann's Miami Vice and Crime Story pretty much just introducing longer story and character arcs to tv at the time.

This way DS9 has deeper characters, but not nearly as many strong single episode stories as TOS and TNG.