By popular vote sure, but let's not pretend that just shy of 50% of the voting public is somehow a small minority. "The majority did NOT vote for Trump", give me a fucking break.... stop with the righteous indignation it just makes you look like an arrogant prick. You lost the election, get over it.
Well said... I'd have supported Bernie Sanders too, despite his comical social policies and his general inability to show a damn backbone, because his policies where fair and decent...

But lacking that, the American people has a choice between a corrupt, sexist, anti-gay, populist, corporate controlled conservative... or Donald Trump. If you give them a choice like that is it any wonder they reject the Democrat candidate.

As for "Vainamoinen" post. Well done, you can claim that a bunch of Hollywood actors, directors, and writers; living in the most staunchy Democrat state in the country; at a time where admitting they're Republican will get them death threats and actively stop them getting work... to all claim they back Hilary Clinton during an election where the media was actively saying she was a sure thing. Big fucking woop. If I was an actor in Hollywood, I'd have lied and claimed to be a Democrat too.

I promised Pheace I was going to meet him by the goalposts but, gosh darn it, they seem to have been moved somewhere.

I dunno Vainamoinen, I've always respected you and consider you one of the gog type of forum goers around here, but you roll around with that much swag and it doesn't really matter how many fair points you make in between.

I have to disagree with your assertion that this show is beating the other Trek series at being Trek. You have to admit the whole thing has the sugary glaze of a summer blockbuster action flick. Much of it is barely considered and requires you don't think too much. When those moments you mentioned did happen, it was almost so on the nose that it was a conceit, almost like the show was wearing it on its sleeve.

As for these Klingons mirroring our own culture I don't buy it. This supposed culture war is as much misplaced aggression over what the present capitalist date is as it is the fact that sarongs are just so ugly looking, turmeric is just so darn disgusting and stainy, green tea makes you stomach sick, or athletes forgetting they need to touch the ball before they can do stuff like kneel and stuff.

watched it

found the show ok (to kill some time) but not great and moved on to playing bg instead

Rofl, *I* lost the election? Do you see United States on my profile anywhere? You're really invested into this us vs you thing.

Well libertarianism (if we're talking about the American use of the term) is controversial because of its views on government compared to the world we live in and the radical change that would have to happen to see a libertarian view realized - so yes in that context it is controversial. Probably less controversial than likening the treatment of libertarianism to neo-nazis which is hyperbolic and untrue. Libertarianism and Neo-Nazis are both clearly empathized with by right-wing institutions (well now the presidency as well actually) in this country as Charlottesville and the Tea Party illustrate.

Generally it's been my experience those standing up for libertarianism are unread and unthoughtful in what they espouse. It's then no surprise why many in the Tea Party movement didn't realize it was being bankrolled by industrialists like the Kochs nor think much about the use of such politics to those with power. Since you like linking Salon pieces, try this one.

Backing a bigot tends to have that effect.

I don't remember Obama failing to condone Neo-Nazis or pardoning a virulent racist that faked an assassination attempt against himself. I do however remember him breaking up Occupy Wall St., calling BLM thugs, and generally governing as a center right candidate.

And yet you use the same epithets of conservatives like "SJW," "virtue signaling," & "regressive" while promoting the right's "liberal bias" myth.

There is no left wing in American politics. It's pretty clear by what you write after this that you really haven't put any work into understanding much of anything thus your recycling of distortions and misinformation about Antifa and media bias - all right-wing propaganda narratives.

I haven't seen it yet so I don't know, but it's more than likely just like all other Trek series before it, it is pushing its viewers to question things - something unthinking uncritical reactionaries are loath to do.

Trump Voters are not the same as Trump Supporters - there's a distinction. His base is closer to 20% of that which is more than deserving of questions about their character - though they're likely not introspective enough for it to matter.

I suppose this is your attempt at being clever. Clinton wasn't a populist. She always sold herself as a center right candidate even up to the end with her rejection of Sanders as a VP and embrace of Tim Kaine. Trump supporters now must confront the "corrupt," "sexist," "corporate controlled," "conservative," & I'll add Wall St. embracing, racist, incompetent reality that is Trump.

Again Trek has always been left-wing since the show's lets-put-mixed-races-on-a-starship-in-the-future-inception during the civil rights movement. You're clearly too young and ignorant to know that if you want to complain about it now. The fact you find that intolerable doesn't make the show regressive or the media authoritarian it just makes you a right-wing reactionary that loses his shit when he's challenged by a TV show he doesn't like.

What's your next diatribe going to be about - Seasame Street is a covert socialist indoctrination tool to get children to care about 'others' (while learning how to count)?

It's just the general narcissism of the right - an inability to empathize with anyone but themselves. It's a kind of cult of victimhood - doctors refer to it as childhood.

Do you see it on mine?

The election in United States is a global affair, and you clearly had your preferred candidate just as I had mine... Yours lost, mine won. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

There's a reason everyone knows who the President of United States is, but no-one really cares too much who runs Netherlands except the people who actually live there. USA is still a global superpower, and it's cultural direction massively impacts the rest of the world.

I have a hard time with it because of how ridiculously incompetent and stupid every character in the show is. It becomes a little more watchable if I assume that we're being shown the worst crew in starfleet, instead of the best as we have in the past. Sending a crew member out into space alone with no plan to recover them or backup, killing the thing they said they shouldn't kill literally a minute earlier, sending the command staff to fight klingons in hand to hand combat instead of sending security officers, not waiting for the command ship to arrive before starting problems, going down to a planet without a valid exit strategy(and potentially getting trapped for 89! years there), running off the bridge during a crisis because they need to call their father.

Now we also have a stupid prison guard(that's practically becoming a new meme) that can't do their job, we have prisoners being allowed to walk around free on the ship for some reason (unescorted, mind you), risking the life of a cadet by forcing them to bunk up with a criminal. I don't think they have done a single thing right.

The claims of being overly sjw MIGHT be overblown, yes they sent the two women in command to fight klingons in hand to hand combat, however the result of that action was fairly realistic. If it was being overly sjw then they would have won that fight, being girl power and all that. I'm still keeping an eye on it though, to see how they handle the new captain. He seems like a potentially strong male presence in the show, but I'm afraid they're going to try and turn him into the bad guy. If they do, then I'll agree with you that it's leaning too far towards sjw propaganda.

Mostly I just want even one of the characters to actually do something smart, instead of being whiny buffoons or needlessly endangering themselves or others. I don't care which character does this, any race, man or woman, human or alien. I just want one of them to be smart, and emotionally stable. The chief security officer might be that character, but she hasn't said very much so it's hard to tell. It's like they're running a daycare and not a ship, everyone is so immature.

Even the bloody klingons are apparently starting all this only because the main klingon was bullied when he was younger. Boo hoo! Poor klingon got his fweelings hurt. That's the only motivation we were really given. He has a really strange message; 'we must kill them because they're trying to be inclusive and change our culture!', then 'I am worth listening to because I am inclusive and allow all klingons to join me, and thus changing our culture!'.

It's impressive how bad the writing is so far. The 'main' character just said 'sometimes up is down, and down is up'; No! You utter idiot, up is up and down is down. Star trek discovery is... well, it's not good. At least we have the Orville, which has been surprisingly good as a star trek show.

Enlighten me. What made this 'clear' to you. The fact that I disagreed your assumption that winning the election with a minority = mainstream or that I don't recognize this SWJ issue in things unless people point it out?

I'm really starting to get sick of clicking "Post my message" only for the forum to lock up, say "Please wait. Processing...", and for my post to never show up...

Just tried to edit this post to include the response I just wrote, and it won't let me... it's almost as if my post is being auto-filtered. What the hell?

Edit - Not letting me post the last bit of the response at all now, there's no swear words in it; but no, I don't get to respond.

Edit 2 - I'm allowed to make edits, but I'm not allowed to actually respond with my actual response. GOG has clearly added something to the word filter that I can't find. It's not a swear word, but it's effectively censoring any response and it does so by just freezing up on "processing" rather than actually showing an error. Well done GOG. Pathetic.

Edit 3 - I've been trying for half an hour to get this shitty forum to actually accept my response and it won't yet no-one else seems to have this trouble. Screw this, it's not worth any more of my time, just so I can get insulted by idiot SJWs anyway.

----------

Really?

Do you actually know what libertarians stand for? Because you seem somewhat confused. Libertarians stand for social freedoms and put those rights above all others. We stand for free speech, free expression, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, the right to assembly, the right of association, and other such rights and privileges. We believe that social restrictions should exist ONLY where they directly restrict someone else's rights...

So let's take Free Speech Week at Berkeley, California as an example. The conservative and libertarian students and speakers wanting to hold a convention and organised lectures with celebrity speakers in paid accommodation; who the SJW masses have labelled as neo nazi's and white supremacists because they lack the brain capacity to see how wrong they are. These people should be left unhindered and able to run their convention. If you don't like it, don't attend. The people protesting, shouting "no racist KKK, no fascist USA" over and over, not realising their attempts to limit free speech makes them the fucking fascists. They should be arrested. Why? Because the right to free speech gives four rights. The right to speak, the right the remain silent, the right to listen, and the right to be heard. These protesters are denying the students who ran this convention the right to listen to their speakers by intentionally trying to drown them out and disrupt the even, and they're denying speakers like Milo Yiannopoulos, Ann Coulter, and Steve Bannon their right to be heard by people who want to see them and have paid to see them...

Grow up. Donald Trump isn't a bigot, he's a man in his 70's who doesn't give a shit about political correction. Wind your damn neck in and stop acting like everyone who doesn't care about your delicate sensibilities is somehow Caligula.

Because those labels fit.

I'm a socialist, environmentalist, libertarian. I support universal healthcare, the universal living wage, public ownership of transit and energy services, and a more intense wealth re-distribution by increasing taxation on the rich. I also support harsh environmental regulations to combat climate change, protections for free speech, deregulation and fragmentation of the media, full net neutrality, and a separation of church and state. I'm more left wing that anyone you're ever likely to meet....

....but because I don't swallow the bullshit that American "left wing" groups peddle I'm apparently a conservative now. Coming from a country where both their major political parties can be adequately described as, far right corporate conservatives. Americans wouldn't know left wing if their lives depend on it, even Bernie Sanders was a best a centrist, but when talking they call the fascist feminist authoritarian crybabies the left wing, and the overbearing anti-science moronic conservatives the right wing... while I'm not a fan of either, the American right wing is the lesser evil by quite a long way.

So they don't riot? Attack conservatives? Try to silence and censor the American right wing? Don't label everyone who disagrees with them as white supremacists?

STOP FÚCKING LYING! - (really, a swear filter, that's why my post was locked in "processing" hell, oh grow up GOG)

Is that your way of justifying mainstream media portraying the people who support the CURRENT PRESIDENT as bloodthirsty psychotics? Screw you, how about that.

Finally got to watch the first two episodes, and... oh boy... I had low expectation, I tried to avoid all the crazy controversies, but I didn't expected that...

Disclaimer : First I am not a "Trekker/Trekkie" or whatever they are called, I am a "casual Star Trek" fan, I watched most of the series and most of the films, enjoy several of them, but I don't consider myself an hardcore fan by any stretch of the imagination.

SPOILER WARNING!!


But for me this new series, at least the two first episodes, managed to feel even less Star Trek than the first JJ movie. Say what you want about Enterprise but at least they tried very hard to tie-in with the other shows and the time period, here it doesn't really seem they give a damn.

I mean what happened to poor Federation, are led lightning or light bulb suddenly become a rarity ? Why is the bridge, and a lot of the shots, so dark, even the JJ bridge looks more like a proper Star Trek one that the Discovery one, also the technology used don't feel right for the time period.

Then the Klingons... a lot has been said about them... I can accept a "redesign" but I don't know... are the Klingon really such huge Botox addicts ? The Klingons have always been rather "expressive" here there look like that are unable to move their face, it's almost as if they were wearing heavy prosthetic and makup that prevented them from moving their faces. They didn't act like Klingon either, if it wasn't for the show telling us they are I could have though they were just the generic alien of the week random enemy.

Also I an not a Klingon language expert, but I am pretty sure that "fmmfff hmmmff ffmff fffmfmfhh" is not how Klingon is supposed to sound like, is it a side effect of the augment virus, does it cause their tongue to swell making them unable to articulate and speak correctly ? And again continuity be damned, the ships don't look anything Klingon and they apparently already have access to stealth generator which, if I remember correctly, is not something they should have access to in this era.

Finally, I kept the "best" for last... the main character. What was exactly their plan with her ? makes a character more annoying and antipatic than Wesley ? If that's what they were going for then they succeeded. She was annoying, incompetent and for somebody who is supposed to have been raised by Vulcans, she is totally unable to handle her emotions.

I hope it was part of her character ark; make her unlikable at first and have grow in later episodes...

And of course the only likeable character in those two episodes, the captain, dies. Honestly I would have rather they killed what's her name and kept Michelle Yeoh's character instead I am sure it would have made me a lot more more interested in the show.

Nailed it!

Well said.

Uhm, not sure where you read that or from whom. But it definitely wasn't in one of my posts.

I'll gladly debate those points with you, but at the time, not in this thread. At the time, we have far too many people in here on a surprisingly difficult journey towards coming to terms with the elementary democratic socialist nature of Gene Roddenberry's utopian vision. I'd gladly accept a friend req and private chat.

The SJW agenda is in the plot:
Klingon suprematists menacengly lurking to start the war with progressive Federation. And they succeed, because suggestion of black-lesbo-trans woman to strike them down first (before they use their beacon to unite alternative klingons who fear that progressive humanity will take away their klingon identity) is denied by white male president... I mean admiral, who thinks that free broadcast shouldn't be abolished and desires to talk with both sides.

Yeah completely non-political message that tells us, you should shoot first at everyone, whose values and code are different from progressive, and deny them free speach.

Too bad that all efforts were put into creating this allegory and none left for making aesthetics and lore faithful to the real Trek.