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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 24, 2015
Greetings, Hunters!

<span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, an action filled next step in aRPG design, is available now for Windows and Mac - complete with GOG Galaxy Achievements, DRM-free, and 10% off for the first week!

In a genre that's seen immense highs and extended lows, it seems that we're always waiting for the secret formula for the perfect action RPG. Some say it's all about an overwhelming amount of loot, upgrades and treats galore. Others choose to experiment with new and innovative ways to connect their players, or to give them new types of control over making their character one of a kind. Victor Vran brings its own answers to the table.

It's a game that places movement and action first, truly putting the "action" in the aRPG, eliminating the boundaries of a traditional class system, and opting for freeform gear-based progression. A combat-oriented approach doesn't mean that Victor Vran is lacking in the other departments either - there's plenty of loot to collect and increasingly awesome weapons to find (including what looks an awful lot like a lightsaber) as well as innovative character progression. All that's there, however, is enhanced by an unprecedented movement system that will have you (and up to 4 of your co-op buddies) leaping, dodging and wallrunning. It's a game where survival is based on so much more than how hard you can hit.



GOG.com Exclusive Bonus
For a little something special, your copy of the game will come with a one-time-use GOG.com-exclusive Treasure Key! Just log in to your GOG.com account, start your single-player game, and redeem it in-game for a fountain of gold and the following drops:

- Med Kit (Legendary) - An endless healing potion.
- Hope Destiny Card (Uncommon) - Provides additional health when equipped. Can be equipped on level 2.
- Diamond Demon Power (Uncommon) - Creates a protective shield. Can be equipped immediately.
- Gift Box - A box that can be opened for random loot.
- Red, Green and Blue dyes - Used to colorize your outfit. Transmutation unlocks at level 16.




Q&A With The Devs
Have questions about the game that only the devs can answer? Join the team behind Victor Vran for a special Q&A session this coming Monday!
Boyan (Lead Designer) and Momchil (Designer) from Haemimont Games will be visiting our forums on Monday (July 27) starting 6pm GMT (8pm CEST / 2pm EST / 11am PST to answer all your questions about the game, the life behind game development, or their favorite type of sandwich. Save the date, stay tuned for the announcement thread, and come hang out with us.


Experience the definition of "a" in aRPG with <span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, DRM-free on GOG.com! The launch discount will last for one week, until Friday, July 31, at 9:59 AM GMT.
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: Let be honest though, that's like every game, every game has some sort of restrictions in what you can and can't do. That's part of gaming and the limitations that it has. For instance some games have a campaign mode and a sandbox mode? Maybe I want to play the campaign but I want all the stuff unlocked like it is in the sandbox mode from the start, but I can't? Why? The game was not designed that way... should GOG not sell that game now because it has placed a limitation on what I can do with it's game modes... as you say I can't "decide on my own how to use the game for all modes"?

See the problem here?
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throgh: I can't believe what we are doing here. There are criticism about how the game manages multiplayer-sessions and really every argument is used to relativize. It is just criticism on technical level: The game uses a client-server-communication for multiplayer and not a peer-to-peer-mode. No problem with both, but it should be mentioned because there are enough games here also using the peer-to-peer-model. So either the system information is enhanced in the future, that a third-party account is the only way playing together, or such games are rejected because they does not fit in. When I buy such a game and there stand something about multiplayer than I'll take the real basic for and this is of course the local peer-to-peer-method. When there stands something about a third-party account I'd decide harder and in most cases the game stays where it was and I buy nothing.
I also can't believe what we are doing here. It was your logic and I simply found the flaw in it. I agreed earlier that GOG should make this more clear about what the game actually has on it's game page. But that by no means, means the game doesn't have a place here on GOG.

And this point were going in circles which means it's time to move on. Good day. :)
Posted July 26, 2015
Ok, regarding booster pack content. I am at level 18 now (7 hours in game) and have acquired all the booster pack content through playing the game. So its really all just cheats/boost for starting the game easier and nothing else (not that the game is hard at normal difficulty). That's about it about the booster pack content.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Matruchus: Ok, regarding booster pack content. I am at level 18 now (7 hours in game) and have acquired all the booster pack content through playing the game. So its really all just cheats/boost for starting the game easier and nothing else (not that the game is hard at normal difficulty). That's about it about the booster pack content.
Can I ask you for you honest opinion? Just want one from somebody who I know wasn't keen on this but still bought the game so has first hand experience.

Do you feel that by not having this at the start it effected your single player experience in any significant way?
Do you feel that this has placed restrictions or controlled your game in anyway by the developers which is typically true of DRM? Or do you find this to be actually DRM?
Post edited July 26, 2015 by user deleted
Posted July 26, 2015
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Realistically it did not affect my singleplayer experience since I could acquire all of that content by playing the game. Yes the start of the game might have been easier for total beginners but if you played an arpg before you don't need that booster pack especially since it is more or less all low level stuff that you get very soon in the game. The activation part for booster content does include drm since it demands online activation for use of the booster pack content (serial key + email, basically creation of multiplayer account) which is not good (I did not use the booster pack) but otherwise it does not affect the game at all which is drm-free otherwise.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Matruchus: Realistically it did not affect my singleplayer experience since I could acquire all of that content by playing the game. Yes the start of the game might have been easier for total beginners but if you played an arpg before you don't need that booster pack especially since it is more or less all low level stuff that you get very soon in the game. The activation part for booster content does include drm since it demands online activation for use of the booster pack content (serial key + email, basically creation of multiplayer account) which is not good (I did not use the booster pack) but otherwise it does not affect the game at all which is drm-free otherwise.
Okay I won't argue on why I disagree with you since I asked for you honest opinion... but thank you. :)
Posted July 26, 2015
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USERNAME:Martek#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:901#Q&_^Q&Q#We may be referring to different things. I was talking about the so-called "exclusive Treasure Key" (ref game card). It doesn't sound at all like that is something meant to be shared - but is instead to unlock a set of item drops.

That thing - do you have to be online to redeem it? And is it a one-time thing (game card seems to say yes).
I don't know what these other "shared code" things are - I don't see that noted on the game card - but instead only see it discussed here ITT.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:901#Q&_^Q&Q#
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USERNAME:Martek#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:901#Q&_^Q&Q#Again, I don't see this mention of multiple "codes" on the game card - just the one single "exclusive Treasure Key".

If that is a one-use code, then my previous posted opinion applies (it's DRM). If it isn't one-use online redemption, then disregard that and I'll update my opinion based on that correction.

So for the moment, I can't agree to disagree or whatever on if it's DRM or not (or its significance) - because I'm not sure we're talking the same thing here.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:901#Q&_^Q&Q#
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I just don't know that were discussing the same thing here. On the Victor Vran Release Announcement, it states:

GOG.com Exclusive Bonus
For a little something special, your copy of the game will come with a one-time-use GOG.com-exclusive Treasure Key! Just log in to your GOG.com account, start your single-player game, and redeem it in-game for a fountain of gold and the following drops:
- Med Kit (Legendary) - An endless healing potion.
- Hope Destiny Card (Uncommon) - Provides additional health when equipped. Can be equipped on level 2.
- Diamond Demon Power (Uncommon) - Creates a protective shield. Can be equipped immediately.
- Gift Box - A box that can be opened for random loot.
- Red, Green and Blue dyes - Used to colorize your outfit. Transmutation unlocks at level 16.
That's what I am referring to - the "single-player game GOG.com Exclusive Bonus". There;s no mention anywhere in that announcement nor on the Victor Vran game card that that is part of the multiplayer system.


Referring the that - it's controlled by DRM. Here's why:

* You need to go online to a centralized system to redeem it.

* It''s one-use only - and that is controlled by that back-end.

you point to a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management]wiki article on DRM (it's quite long and I didn't read every word of it).

The first paragraph of that article has; "..intent to control the use of digital content and devices after sale". That applies to the code. You buy the game first; then after-sale, you go online to redeem it for in-game content - and can only do so once - so the code usage is controlled after-sale.

Later in the article (under <span class="bold">Introduction</span>), it says; "DRM technologies enable content publishers to enforce their own access policies on content, such as restrictions on copying or viewing". That happens here - the game publisher (content publisher) enforces the one-use policy that they made and control.

Under <span class="bold">Limited install activations</span> it says; "Computer games sometimes use DRM technologies to limit the number of systems the game can be installed on by requiring authentication with an online server". That's exactly what happens with the "single-player game GOG.com Exclusive Bonus" - you are limited to one install.

Elsewhere, you note; "Lets not make this out to be more significant than it is.." I respectively agree that it isn't a "huge" thing but that it's significance doesn't matter. A pint of beer is an insignificant portion of a keg; but it's still beer. DRM on a small thing is still DRM.

As I've previously , this DRM'd code can prevent one from experiencing the single-player game in a way that redemption of the code allow. Calling it a <i>cheat code</i>, a <i>CD key</i>, or whatever, doesn't take away that there's an advertised single-play experience that can only be added to the game once (not [url=http://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_victor_vran_92633/post868]50 times); and at some point in the future will likely be unavailable at all - due to the online-controlled DRM.

Basically, the redemption code looks, talks, walks, and smells like a duck. It's a duck. It's DRM. That it's for a "small" basically DLC doesn't take away that it's DRM - just on a small part of the game.
Posted July 26, 2015
low rated
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Martek: I just don't know that were discussing the same thing here. On the Victor Vran Release Announcement, it states:

GOG.com Exclusive Bonus
For a little something special, your copy of the game will come with a one-time-use GOG.com-exclusive Treasure Key! Just log in to your GOG.com account, start your single-player game, and redeem it in-game for a fountain of gold and the following drops:
- Med Kit (Legendary) - An endless healing potion.
- Hope Destiny Card (Uncommon) - Provides additional health when equipped. Can be equipped on level 2.
- Diamond Demon Power (Uncommon) - Creates a protective shield. Can be equipped immediately.
- Gift Box - A box that can be opened for random loot.
- Red, Green and Blue dyes - Used to colorize your outfit. Transmutation unlocks at level 16.
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Martek: That's what I am referring to - the "single-player game GOG.com Exclusive Bonus". There;s no mention anywhere in that announcement nor on the Victor Vran game card that that is part of the multiplayer system.
Yes and as I stated it part of the treasure hunt system, look it up. All they did was make a special code for GOG as a bonus called the treasure key. It's for multiplayer and can interact with single player. It's an online component that you need an account for similar to online MP. However not doing has no real effect on single player as you can still get everything by playing the game.

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Martek: Referring the that - it's controlled by DRM. Here's why:

* You need to go online to a centralized system to redeem it.

* It''s one-use only - and that is controlled by that back-end.

you point to a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management]wiki article on DRM (it's quite long and I didn't read every word of it).
Yes I linked this earlier...

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Martek: The first paragraph of that article has; "..intent to control the use of digital content and devices after sale". That applies to the code. You buy the game first; then after-sale, you go online to redeem it for in-game content - and can only do so once - so the code usage is controlled after-sale.
As stated there are many competing definitions, but no this refers to the product as a whole. Not single parts of a product. And as a whole you are not being controlled at all. You can install, copy, or use the product in confines of how it was designed as much as you want.

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Martek: Later in the article (under <span class="bold">Introduction</span>), it says; "DRM technologies enable content publishers to enforce their own access policies on content, such as restrictions on copying or viewing". That happens here - the game publisher (content publisher) enforces the one-use policy that they made and control.
The content not walled off at all, therefor does not full under this at all. You can gain said content by playing. Said content is in the game and obtainable by anyone. You don't need special access to gain them.

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Martek: Under <span class="bold">Limited install activations</span> it says; "Computer games sometimes use DRM technologies to limit the number of systems the game can be installed on by requiring authentication with an online server". That's exactly what happens with the "single-player game GOG.com Exclusive Bonus" - you are limited to one install.
Um no, your stretching this one big time. This is does not "install" anything at all, it changes game code to unlock something already in the game. Installing would be installing the game via GOG standalone installer which is unlimited and DRM free.

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Martek: Elsewhere, you note; "Lets not make this out to be more significant than it is.." I respectively agree that it isn't a "huge" thing but that it's significance doesn't matter. A pint of beer is an insignificant portion of a keg; but it's still beer. DRM on a small thing is still DRM.
Not it's not, all your doing is taking things from that article out of context to fit your view of DRM. Anyone can take what was stated and stretch if they try hard enough.

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Martek: As I've previously , this DRM'd code can prevent one from experiencing the single-player game in a way that redemption of the code allow. Calling it a <i>cheat code</i>, a <i>CD key</i>, or whatever, doesn't take away that there's an advertised single-play experience that can only be added to the game once (not [url=http://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_victor_vran_92633/post868]50 times); and at some point in the future will likely be unavailable at all - due to the online-controlled DRM.

Basically, the redemption code looks, talks, walks, and smells like a duck. It's a duck. It's DRM. That it's for a "small" basically DLC doesn't take away that it's DRM - just on a small part of the game.
It does not prevent you from experiencing the single player game in a way that redemption code allows, because it does nothing but unlock stuff already in the game and obtainable so your experience will be nearly the exact same as someone who doesn't use codes compared to someone who does.

If you have actually read that article you will also notice in no part do the terms "online services", "multiplayer", or "online components" appear anywhere in it. Why?

Because these have never been arguments for DRM, excluding what people believe on GOG. These are services you subscribe too, you are not entitled to them by purchasing. Your entitled to the core single player experience, which is completely DRM free

The closest you will find is "Persistent online authentication". Why? Because that is a form of control that the developer has over you to make sure you are not doing anything that can break the EULA. But the key difference is "persistent", when means all the time. Authentication for a service you elect to make use of is not persistent and therefor does not fall into DRM.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by user deleted
Posted July 26, 2015
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USERNAME:Martek#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#I just don't know that were discussing the same thing here. On the Victor Vran Release Announcement, it states:

That's what I am referring to - the "single-player game GOG.com Exclusive Bonus". There;s no mention anywhere in that announcement nor on the Victor Vran game card that that is part of the multiplayer system.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Really? I did look it up. I even quoted it and posted two links to my lookup. You then quoted my quote of the looked-up quote and then immediately told me "look it up". Seriously..

I buy from GOG. So I use GOG's own TWO advertisements as look-ups (and quote them). You still say "look it up". Seems like you might want to look it up.

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So you say. GOG's own advertisements do not say that at all - not even close. Don't believe me? Look it up - I conveniently provided quotes and links, see just above (where you told me to look it up while quoting my look-ups). If you post supporting "looked-up" material (as I did), that may change things. But for now it's your word against GOG's published advertisements (that I looked up).

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USERNAME:Martek#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#Referring the that - it's controlled by DRM. Here's why:

* You need to go online to a centralized system to redeem it.

* It''s one-use only - and that is controlled by that back-end.

you point to a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management]wiki article on DRM (it's quite long and I didn't read every word of it).#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#
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I already said that, earlier...

I said (as you quoted)" you point to a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management]wiki article on DRM"? So.. of course you linked it earlier - I pointed that out. Just like the "look it up", it's right there. Look for yourself and see..

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USERNAME:Martek#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#Under <span class="bold">Limited install activations</span> it says; "Computer games sometimes use DRM technologies to limit the number of systems the game can be installed on by requiring authentication with an online server". That's exactly what happens with the "single-player game GOG.com Exclusive Bonus" - you are limited to one install.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Conversely - you are artificially limiting scope to meet your definitions.

What is installed is the ability to play the game a slightly different way. Pre-code redemption - can't play it that way. Post-code redemption - can play it that way.

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USERNAME:Martek#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#As I've previously , this DRM'd code can prevent one from experiencing the single-player game in a way that redemption of the code allow. Calling it a <i>cheat code</i>, a <i>CD key</i>, or whatever, doesn't take away that there's an advertised single-play experience that can only be added to the game once (not [url=http://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_victor_vran_92633/post868]50 times); and at some point in the future will likely be unavailable at all - due to the online-controlled DRM.

Basically, the redemption code looks, talks, walks, and smells like a duck. It's a duck. It's DRM. That it's for a "small" basically DLC doesn't take away that it's DRM - just on a small part of the game.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:921#Q&_^Q&Q#
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"Nearly" <> "the same". Nearly == nearly. You will be UNABLE to experience the game in the way the code allows. If that is so nearly the same as to be of no consequence - then why does the code exist at all? LOL - because it allows a different (if only slightly) play experience as an option An option LOST if you don't partake in the DRM-scheme.

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Then GOG should not advertise the code as a single-player game enhancement, but instead is part of an optional subscription service.

You keep focusing on the "this content is otherwise available in game so it isn't DRM". YES the content may be otherwise available - that is NOT the point. The POINT is that the way the game plays with the redeemable code is not the same as without - and that code is DRM-controlled. You get a more-limited play experience. Again - if it is so insignificant a difference -WHY HAVE THE CODE AT ALL? because OF that difference. That's why. That difference is LOST unless you partake in the DRM scheme. That is muddled out of both GOG's advertisements for the game, and your defense of it (coincidence? maybe not..).
Posted July 26, 2015
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Martek: Really? I did look it up. I even quoted it and posted two links to my lookup. You then quoted my quote of the looked-up quote and then immediately told me "look it up". Seriously..

I buy from GOG. So I use GOG's own TWO advertisements as look-ups (and quote them). You still say "look it up". Seems like you might want to look it up.
If you don't want to use outside resources to find information then that is on you. Google is a powerful tool.

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Martek: So you say. GOG's own advertisements do not say that at all - not even close. Don't believe me? Look it up - I conveniently provided quotes and links, see just above (where you told me to look it up while quoting my look-ups). If you post supporting "looked-up" material (as I did), that may change things. But for now it's your word against GOG's published advertisements (that I looked up).
So GOG says:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/release_victor_vran_92633/post52/?staff=yes

And the dev if as I said you look at some outside resources.

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Martek: I already said that, earlier...

I said (as you quoted)" you point to a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management]wiki article on DRM"? So.. of course you linked it earlier - I pointed that out. Just like the "look it up", it's right there. Look for yourself and see..
Yes my mistake, sorry it was a lot to read. I did edit my original comment though.

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Martek: Conversely - you are artificially limiting scope to meet your definitions.

What is installed is the ability to play the game a slightly different way. Pre-code redemption - can't play it that way. Post-code redemption - can play it that way.
I'm not limiting anything. What actually happens does not fit in with the meaning of install. To install implies something new had been added, in this case nothing in new was added. Rather likely code is being modified.

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Martek: "Nearly" <> "the same". Nearly == nearly. You will be UNABLE to experience the game in the way the code allows. If that is so nearly the same as to be of no consequence - then why does the code exist at all? LOL - because it allows a different (if only slightly) play experience as an option An option LOST if you don't partake in the DRM-scheme.
To give you an alternative way of interacting with the game and the community. Come on now... you can put two people in the same game and have them do the same things and they will both experience it differently with different experiences regardless of DRM or no DRM. You want to focus on that if the experience is different for two people because of how it's coded then it's DRM... no that just how it's designed. You can design the a similar experience with a game all locally offline with no servers and no online, and the game would still be DRM free if you wanted too.

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Martek: Then GOG should not advertise the code as a single-player game enhancement, but instead is part of an optional subscription service.
This is pretty common knowledge for online services in games, read any EULA for any game with a strong online multiplayer focus or other online services (like stats, ect). I do agree it should have been better worded however and labeled.

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Martek: You keep focusing on the "this content is otherwise available in game so it isn't DRM". YES the content may be otherwise available - that is NOT the point. The POINT is that the way the game plays with the redeemable code is not the same as without - and that code is DRM-controlled. You get a more-limited play experience. Again - if it is so insignificant a difference -WHY HAVE THE CODE AT ALL? because OF that difference. That's why. That difference is LOST unless you partake in the DRM scheme. That is muddled out of both GOG's advertisements for the game, and your defense of it (coincidence? maybe not..).
Because it an important point to focus on, it's what separates this from really being DRM. Why have the code at all? To provide community interaction in the game. Simple as that. Look on Steam, treasure hunts codes are being shared there. It's not conspiracy to change the game for offline players, it simple a small enrichment for those who want to interact with each other and have that interaction effect there game. It's not however something that radically re-invents the wheel were you going to have any worthwhile experience over offline for using it.

I'm pretty much done with this discussion though, we could argue this all day and go in circles... you either understand that or you don't. You accept that or you don't. That simple.

EDIT: I also see the DRM maniacs are at in full force, keep on downvoting, I really don't care. It's a discussion and not everyone agrees. :)
Post edited July 26, 2015 by user deleted
Posted July 26, 2015
Had to slip it in there to see how we would react, GOG? ;-)

Please specify exactly on the gamer page which portions of the game (like Multiplayer in "King Arthurs Gold") are behind a DRM wall and specify which DRM it is (in this case: Serial #). Oh, and please remove the "DRM-Free Content" sticker on your homepage. It misleads people that everything offered here is completely DRM free. Personally, I have nothing against DRM via Serial Keys for multiplayer content.
Posted July 26, 2015
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USERNAME:Martek#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:923#Q&_^Q&Q#So you say. GOG's own advertisements do not say that at all - not even close. Don't believe me? Look it up - I conveniently provided quotes and links, see just above (where you told me to look it up while quoting my look-ups). If you post supporting "looked-up" material (as I did), that may change things. But for now it's your word against GOG's published advertisements (that I looked up).#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:923#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Alright - better - you looked it up.

So the code is part of the online DRM-scheme - there if you want it and not there if you don't.

GOG needs to be clearer about that on the announcement and the game card. Customer should not have to read a 47+ page forum thread to get that info.

Blue post says:
"That wording was a bit unfortunate on our part, my apologies - we'll update the post with more details"

Too bad that two-days later it still isn't clear on the ads. How convenient too - that this one-thing (slight-dose of DRM) just happens to be left muddled.. Such a coincidence I am sure..

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I agree with you - that we could go on and on and not change our minds. I do understand and accept that - and that you aren't willing to call a small dose of DRM it what it is. No problem..

Calling it what it is means a more meaningful decision can be made: Don't like DRM but want the game - then accept that a small part of the single-player experience will be unavailable. Don't mind a small-dose of DRM? Then go for the optional extra. Simple. No need for all the euphemistic calling DRM something else.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Randoo: It was a nice way for you not to reply to a clear question that would deny your whole nonsense.
I didn't realize acting stupid and ignoring solidly made comparison is a response that I should ignore. Interesting.

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Randoo: In the end you proved my point. There is drm for ingame experience content that can't be found another way and you clearly don't care much for drm-free games.
Exactly what dd I prove and how? Not only you're not making any sense, you're pulling strawmen out of your ass at a incredible rate. Because, as you can see, about all rational people here who don't live in a bubble proved the otherwise. As for me not caring for drm, you need to learn how to properly read in English. There's an obvious language barrier here. Maybe you should try the French forums.

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Randoo: I hope Gog will contact Haemimont and fix those issues (and bring the linux version too).
If only there were any issues to fix.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by HijacK
Posted July 26, 2015
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Martek: Alright - better - you looked it up.

So the code is part of the online DRM-scheme - there if you want it and not there if you don't.

GOG needs to be clearer about that on the announcement and the game card. Customer should not have to read a 47+ page forum thread to get that info.

Blue post says:
"That wording was a bit unfortunate on our part, my apologies - we'll update the post with more details"

Too bad that two-days later it still isn't clear on the ads. How convenient too - that this one-thing (slight-dose of DRM) just happens to be left muddled.. Such a coincidence I am sure..
And I agree with that.

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Martek: I agree with you - that we could go on and on and not change our minds. I do understand and accept that - and that you aren't willing to call a small dose of DRM it what it is. No problem..

Calling it what it is means a more meaningful decision can be made: Don't like DRM but want the game - then accept that a small part of the single-player experience will be unavailable. Don't mind a small-dose of DRM? Then go for the optional extra. Simple. No need for all the euphemistic calling DRM something else.
In my mind if the community wants to call online services... which is any including online multiplayer with keys DRM. Fine then fight that, but we are what 6 or 7 years later when GOG first introduced that here in the form of key based online MP and were now calling fowl? Sorry but if they are accepted then so should this, we can't make exceptions only when we really want something.

I'm out though... thanks for the constructive level headed discussion. God knows the people reading this thread could learn something since apparently I can't have different views without being downvoted like crazy since it's not the popular opinion. Something I've not done once in the entire thread even if I disagreed with you. Speaks a lot about some people here. Oh well, who cares about internet points...
Posted July 26, 2015
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Same here btw.

I can't recall once I've downvoted anything except those obvious "we are under attack" spam threads that pop up all the time. and get downvoted out of view.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Martek: Same here btw.

I can't recall once I've downvoted anything except those obvious "we are under attack" spam threads that pop up all the time. and get downvoted out of view.
Sometimes it just happen.
I think its just trolls passing by that want to stir up some drama
dont pay any attention to it since the rep system is kinda useless on gog annyay.
That goes for both of you.

My two cents on the real matter
I dont think any of the sides in this debate will agree
one side woud disagree and put forth thougths on the matter annyway regardless of what the other part is saying.
Post edited July 27, 2015 by Lodium
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