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Ready to play dirty?

<span class="bold">Gremlins, Inc.</span>, a fierce digital board game where you must outmanoeuvre other gremlin businessmen at every turn, is now available on GOG.com with a 50% launch discount.

This is a gremlin eat gremlin world of ruthless capitalism, political power struggles, and opportunistic moves. Use cunning, subterfuge, and your conveniently maladjusted moral compass to navigate a steampunk universe of cut-throat profiteering, both in single-player and multiplayer.

Expand your experience further with the <span class="bold">Digital Artbook</span> or <span class="bold">Soundtrack</span>, plus the <span class="bold">Uninvited Guests</span>, <span class="bold">Astral Gamblers</span>, and <span class="bold">Automated Competitors</span> DLC.

The 50% discount will last until May 18, 13:00 PM UTC.

NOTE: The game supports Galaxy/Steam crossplay, GOG Galaxy achievements, and a fully functional mod Workshop, among other things.

When you buy this game, you get 2 products in your GOG Library: Gremlins, Inc. – playable online in single-player and multiplayer modes, with item drops; and Gremlins vs Automatons – playable offline in single-player mode.

Tinker with the trailer.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by maladr0Id
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blotunga: You know what you're buying. It's their choice to offer multiplayer only through Galaxy and DLC that is for it and your choice to buy it or not. If you're not interested in the multiplayer, you don't need to buy the DLC.
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DoctorGOGgles: As far as I can tell this is the first and only DLC sold on GOG which is offering something exclusively for always on-line multiplayer. It's not something I, as a long-time customer on GOG, expect from a product sold as DRM-free. Every other item sold on GOG offers you something, that can be used without depending on third-party servers or being on-line.

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amok: actually and technically no, it is not... It is just that the DLC only works with the online version. Different matter entirely, not DRM.
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DoctorGOGgles: Digital Rights Management. My right to use the skins provided in this DLC is managed by (depends on) a third party (the developer of the game).
So is it DRM if I by the horse armour DLC and I can't use it with Skyrim?
Post edited May 15, 2017 by amok
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SergeiKlimov: TL;DR – gamedev is changing. Multiplayer is exciting. Client/Server architecture AND meta-game with in-game items allows for interaction between players, and mechanics outside of the actual game, that are very appealing because they offer new experiences. This is where we're moving, as well a most of the teams we're friends with. Our new game is designed as a single-player experience. But it will have a special mode, Ironman, that will be online-only, because it will offer great new stuff that we designed to enhance the single-player experience. I don't really care about the piracy. I care about offering to players something great that they can have in our game, which wasn't even possible 10 years ago. And I'd love to see GOG evolving to embrace studios like ours, rather than shorten its release list only to the classic franchises.
"Games have to be ephemeral experiences for your own benefit! Otherwise how could we possibly add in all the gimmicky crap you'll immediately forget about? This is the future because me and my friends think it's super awesome and GOG is totally going to miss out if you don't all just bend over and take it.!"

PR. PR never changes.

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amok: So is it DRM if I by the horse armour DLC and I can't use it with Skyrim?
The issue isn't that it only works with that certain version of the game. It's that the version of the game required by the DLC is the one that couldn't show up by itself until it came with a token offline version. If Gremlins Inc was too DRM-y for GOG, how is DLC that only works with it not exactly as DRM-y?
I'm not going to touch the discussion on whether Gremlins "should" be sold here or not with a 10 foot pole, but I'm curious about this post, because you seem to be contradicting yourself...

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DoctorGOGgles: Up to now, this was true for every item sold on GOG, that I am aware of. There's always something I can still use from the backups of every item I've bought on GOG. Sometimes only single-player might work. Sometimes I might only have a crappy wallpaper to look at, but there is always something still usable contained in every item sold. The Gremlins Inc. skins DLC are the first and only items sold on GOG, which will be unusable once GOG and the developer shut down, so I feel like I only rent a time-limited right to use the contents of said DLC while the servers are still up. This doesn't fit my definition of DRM-free.

It wouldn't have fit GOG's definition for DRM-free up until a year or two ago...
(emphasis mine)

So, if I get it right, according to you:

Game A
_Part 1: Single Player - will always be usable
_Part 2: Multiplayer - will not always be usable
OK

Game B
_Part 1: crappy wallpaper - will always be usable
_Part 2: everything else - will not always be usable
OK

Game C
_Part 1: yadda yadda yadda - will always be usable
_Part 2: blah blah blah - will not always be usable
OK

Game D
_Part 1: Gremlins vs Automatons - will always be usable
_Part 2: Gremlins Inc - will not always be usable
_Part 3: Skins DLC - will not always be usable
Not OK

Could you explain why? Why is Game D not OK if games A-C are OK according to you? Conversely, why are games A-C OK, if Game D is not, according to you?
Post edited May 15, 2017 by ZFR
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ZFR: I'm not going to touch the discussion on whether Gremlins "should" be sold here or not with a 10 foot pole, but I'm curious about this post, because you seem to be contradicting yourself...
Go ahead touch it, it will make you feel better. I promise.

PS: I secretly regret touching it. :P
high rated
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SergeiKlimov: TL;DR – gamedev is changing. Multiplayer is exciting. Client/Server architecture AND meta-game with in-game items allows for interaction between players, and mechanics outside of the actual game, that are very appealing because they offer new experiences. This is where we're moving, as well a most of the teams we're friends with. Our new game is designed as a single-player experience. But it will have a special mode, Ironman, that will be online-only, because it will offer great new stuff that we designed to enhance the single-player experience. I don't really care about the piracy. I care about offering to players something great that they can have in our game, which wasn't even possible 10 years ago. And I'd love to see GOG evolving to embrace studios like ours, rather than shorten its release list only to the classic franchises.
Let me put it this way: it's great that you're excited about multiplayer and server dependant architecture. I hope your next game is amazing and makes use of those technologies to the fullest, so the people who likes that stuff gets an amazing time. I, however, have zero interest on a server dependant experience and I would appreciate if GOG didn't sell your game so I don't waste my time figuring out the details of a game I have no interest on.

It is a selfish viewpoint, but I liked the curated approach because every single game released on GOG was worth a look. Now, I will need to waste time checking if a game crosses one of my personal red lines, which is something I rather not do. This will most likely translate on a general disinterest on new releases and hurt other devs. But that's just me and I know painfully well how in the minority I am.



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ZFR: Could you explain why? Why is Game D not OK if games A-C are OK according to you? Conversely, why are games A-C OK, if Game D is not, according to you?
I believe his not OK remark was for just the DLC, which are sold separately from the main game yet have no DRM free part whatsoever on them.
low rated
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SergeiKlimov: For example, in most countries women earn less than men for the same kind of job performed.
SJW confirmed! Gotcha!!! (Nice reveal about yourself, captain.)

This is a MYTH and an outright LIE perpetrated by feminists, social justice warriors, social engineers etc. In most Western countries, especially, there are laws (fuck them, btw) that make it illegal to pay less, discriminate, etc, so it does not happen - apart from very rare and specific instances. And then, it happens plenty the other way too.

The main reason it seems that males get paid more for "the same job" is the hours worked between the sexes and in some cases, experience or "bonus/performance" based extras.


PS: Go buy an Audi. ;-)
Post edited May 15, 2017 by GOGer
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Klumpen0815: War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
These... contorted rationalizations are... interesting...
https://pics.me.me/ho-de-through-power-jusslice-through-fear-ici-cbm-reviews-9357495.png
Peace through War
Attachments:
Post edited May 15, 2017 by ValamirCleaver
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Klumpen0815: It's like a giant "screw you" to the whole DRM-free crowd / us.
We're making the games that we want to make, creatively. We're not designing games for mobiles or tablets or consoles because we like to design the experience that at this time can be delivered on PC, with enhancements that will be delivered online. If you take my creative choice to be a "screw you" to you, then a good question to ask would be "what's the reason for all that anger?". As a studio, we follow our own dreams, we're not working for hire for someone who will tell us what to do – and what not to do. We're also being honest about our approach.
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ZFR: I'm not going to touch the discussion on whether Gremlins "should" be sold here or not with a 10 foot pole, but I'm curious about this post, because you seem to be contradicting yourself...

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DoctorGOGgles: Up to now, this was true for every item sold on GOG, that I am aware of. There's always something I can still use from the backups of every item I've bought on GOG. Sometimes only single-player might work. Sometimes I might only have a crappy wallpaper to look at, but there is always something still usable contained in every item sold. The Gremlins Inc. skins DLC are the first and only items sold on GOG, which will be unusable once GOG and the developer shut down, so I feel like I only rent a time-limited right to use the contents of said DLC while the servers are still up. This doesn't fit my definition of DRM-free.

It wouldn't have fit GOG's definition for DRM-free up until a year or two ago...
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ZFR: (emphasis mine)

So, if I get it right, according to you:

Game A
_Part 1: Single Player - will always be usable
_Part 2: Multiplayer - will not always be usable
OK

Game B
_Part 1: crappy wallpaper - will always be usable
_Part 2: everything else - will not always be usable
OK

Game C
_Part 1: yadda yadda yadda - will always be usable
_Part 2: blah blah blah - will not always be usable
OK

Game D
_Part 1: Gremlins vs Automatons - will always be usable
_Part 2: Gremlins Inc - will not always be usable
_Part 3: Skins DLC - will not always be usable
Not OK

Could you explain why? Why is Game D not OK if games A-C are OK according to you? Conversely, why are games A-C OK, if Game D is not, according to you?
What you define as a single Game D is sold as two different products on GOG:

- The first is the main game Gremlins Inc. (together with its offline mode Gremlins vs Automatons). I'm ok with selling this, because you can still play offline. It might not be fun, there might be some features missing, but as long as I can see what's missing in offline mode from the product page before I buy it, that's ok with me.

- The second product is the skins DLC. If I buy, e.g. the Uninvited Guests DLC, I pay 6$ and there is nothing in this purchase, that can be used without connecting to third party servers. I don't get to own anything in exchange for those 6$, I only get a temporary right to use them while the online servers are still active. There's nothing DRM-free contained in this item sold and thus is not ok with me.

If the skins DLC was bundled together with, e.g. wallpapers or concept art of the skins and if the product page clearly would state, that the skins themselves can only be used online, that would be ok with me too. I would know, that I would only get to keep wallpapers for a 6$ purchase. Of course that would be a bad deal for me and I wouldn't buy it, but there would be something you get to keep and own in return for paying. As it is right now, you get nothing DRM-free, nothing I get to keep indefinitely, for those 6$ and that's my reasoning for saying, that the skins DLC should not be allowed to be sold on a DRM-free store like GOG.

If parts of a product rely on third-party servers (Galaxy) and this is clearly stated, then I can determine if the value of the remaining DRM-free parts are still worth the purchase for me, but if there is absolutely nothing DRM-free contained in a purchase, then it shouldn't be sold in a store that labels itself as DRM-free.
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metricfun: Thing is, some people came here to have something different than Steam, and DRM-free is the biggest difference (for me) between the two. The way I read your post, you hope GOG will relax its views on DRM so developing for it (and offering a "better" experience to the player) would be easier for you (developers). Right now there are plenty of consumers here that don't want what you envision. I bought Gremlins not to encourage DRM, but the fact you (devs) took time to make a DRM-free offline experience of a game I might (or might not) like. While you like the online aspect for data collecting and "enriching" the experience, "we" / I don't. Because when developers or publishers or the store pull the plug we just don't have a game we paid for anymore for some "arbitrary" reason.
Thanks for the feedback (and for the purchase). I won't speak for GOG here but let me split the situation into two parts, as far as I can see it:

(1) there are games that depend on online servers; if the game is unsuccessful, the server cost is too high, and the game dies; you have played it for while it lasted but that's ultimately it.

This risk is similar to supporting a game on Kickstarter, or in Early Access. What if the game is never shipped or finished? Some of my friends are now developing a remake of Pathologic. They are years late. I would imagine that some of their backers are quite frustrated.

Steam makes a choice to allow Early Access with some awesome results, and GOG now allows this too (ref. Factorio). I think (to me) this is a proof that the early access risk is worth it. Some games won't be finished but some will be great.

Let me also bring another example, which is sadder. There's a game called Mad Games Tycoon. It launch rout of EA, great product. Then the updates stopped coming. Some players in the community were complaining and being angry. But the reality is, one of the developers died unexpectedly, and so the development was put on hold for moral reasons, his brother needed some time off. Can you protect against that? Not really.

So if GOG made a step from "games finished years ago" to "games still in development" (curated), is it possible that a further step will be made towards "games that offer online experience"? Let's imagine FTL multiplayer with a persistent universe. Is this a product that does not belong to GOG, which has 2K+ positive reviews for the original game?

(2) there are games that depend on the servers BUT they also offer an offline edition that's going to work regardless of the server side.

So what's the problem with offering these titles on GOG? You do have an offline version which is going to be there in 10 years from now, and you have the online experience.

The problem I see here is actually emotional, not reasonable. There is a version of the game that is going to be safe form anyone paying or not paying for servers. And there's additional online content as a bonus. Why people are up in arms to remove that bonus content, then? And why any feature that exists in the online version "must" be in the offline version, no matter the dev time spent on this?

If this were a barrier to jump over, then I see a lot of teams just not finding the time to launch on GOG. Would anyone be happier? I don't see how. Because these teams will not wake up and think "OMG, I need to change my dev concept because of the GOG community". As harsh as that may sound, but if the game is successful, then extra revenue from Humble or GOG or Sonkwo will not matter much, time is more precious. And if the game is not successful on Steam, then the potential sales on GOG will not justify the effort anyway.

I remember how years ago we spoke to Firaxis about DLCs for Civilization. The local publisher wanted to know, which DRM the game will use to protect the DLCs from pirates. Firaxis said: the amount of dev time spent to create DRM for DLCs, will yield maybe 5% extra sales due to less piracy; the same dev time spent on new DLC, will yield 100% extra sales from the loyal audience; so we prefer to create games, not protection.

The same happens with devs and GOG. If the amount of time needed to meet some requirements from GOG become untenable, then the devs will just create new content for the other platforms/focus elsewhere.

To me, GOG is first and foremost the curated store that was good for discovery. If this changes and the difference becomes purely technical (e.g. there was an idea for a "Unity Store" or "Unreal Store" based on the engines the games used, I don't know if anything actually shipped) then it's a limitation that's not going to age well, looking into the future. This is just my feedback from the outside.

We'll see how GOG evolves, of course, and the primary indicator will be the sales data. A healthy platform grows with the market, and maybe has a chance to take a bite out of another platform. The opposite would be a steady or declining revenue due to lack of content. It is the interest of dev community as well as platforms like Steam, that GOG keeps growing.
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Executer: Our hope was, if we make GOG financially successful, people would make games for us, that could be preserved and be sold on GOG. Instead GOG turned its back to us and has choosen growth and to do what every else does.

(...)

Please consider adding as much of what makes your game Gremlins Inc. so unique.. and benefits the gameplay itself.. into Gremlins. Automatons. It might be all that can be interactively revisited in the near future.
1) GOG has to follow the wind, so to say, because the market is so big and fluid... This War of Mine sold 500,000+ copies in China via TGP; I would imagine that the sales on GOG are substantially smaller; as a developer, 11Bit would be right to focus on how they can do 1M units with their next game in China, which has a higher priority to them than 10K units on GOG (I'm using 11bit as an example here, I don't really know their minds). Why? Because sales = revenue = opportunity to make the game of your dreams with the funds that you receive, which is every studio's dream.

2) Of course, and this is the point which motivated us to invest in creating GvA in the first place. Every night we have a chance that something may go wrong with the servers and people would be unable to play. It happened 3 times over 2 years, but still. So crating GvA for us was a way to ensure that players can play regardless of what's happening with the servers. In features and single-player content, GvA is 1:1 Gremlins, Inc., so the whole experience of this digital board game will be there in 10 or 20 years. Which is also the reason why we update both products when new content or s/p features ship.
Post edited May 15, 2017 by SergeiKlimov
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GOGer: PS: Go buy an Audi. ;-)
1. I have 2 Audis (2000 & 2015)
2. 50% of our dev team is female
3. We are committed to making games industry a better place for women, so that the current gender mix can be closer to film/books/music, which is a more diverse environment.

But this is off-topic, of course ;)
Post edited May 15, 2017 by SergeiKlimov
One thing I do wonder about is why do most devs omit to include direct TCP/IP multiplayer? That would please most of the whiners. And technically it's pretty easy.
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DoctorGOGgles: What you define as a single Game D is sold as two different products on GOG:

- The first is the main game Gremlins Inc. (together with its offline mode Gremlins vs Automatons). I'm ok with selling this, because you can still play offline. It might not be fun, there might be some features missing, but as long as I can see what's missing in offline mode from the product page before I buy it, that's ok with me.

- The second product is the skins DLC. If I buy, e.g. the Uninvited Guests DLC, I pay 6$ and there is nothing in this purchase, that can be used without connecting to third party servers. I don't get to own anything in exchange for those 6$, I only get a temporary right to use them while the online servers are still active. There's nothing DRM-free contained in this item sold and thus is not ok with me.

If the skins DLC was bundled together with, e.g. wallpapers or concept art of the skins and if the product page clearly would state, that the skins themselves can only be used online, that would be ok with me too. I would know, that I would only get to keep wallpapers for a 6$ purchase. Of course that would be a bad deal for me and I wouldn't buy it, but there would be something you get to keep and own in return for paying. As it is right now, you get nothing DRM-free, nothing I get to keep indefinitely, for those 6$ and that's my reasoning for saying, that the skins DLC should not be allowed to be sold on a DRM-free store like GOG.

If parts of a product rely on third-party servers (Galaxy) and this is clearly stated, then I can determine if the value of the remaining DRM-free parts are still worth the purchase for me, but if there is absolutely nothing DRM-free contained in a purchase, then it shouldn't be sold in a store that labels itself as DRM-free.
Fair enough. Thanks for answering.

By the way, it's good to see you actually have set a proper definition of a DRM for yourself, since many users treat is as a buzzword (which it really has become) and shout "DRM!" whenever they see anything they don't like, regardless of what it actually is.

My definition of DRM is almost exactly same as yours: will have to work forever as long as a I have the hardware, without relying on the goodwill of a third party... etc.. etc. However I don't subscribe to the "at least something has to be usable offline" statement. Since GOG have made it known from the beginning that their DRM-free extends only as far as single player, then the usable part must mean the full single player experience. I'm OK with multiplayer, or a part of the game that is single player but inherently relies on being online (e.g. a business simulation that uses real time stock prices), not being usable, just as long as it's clearly stated in the game description. Of course it would be nice if there is some DRM-free multiplayer too (hotseat, LAN), but I'm OK if it's not.

So if a DRM-free single player comes out, and later the devs add the "Multiplayer DLC" for the game as a separate product and all it does is offer multiplayer through a sever, I would be absolutely OK with GOG selling is separately.

As to this particular Gremlin case... well, the core game is fine, since you do get the full single player experience (though as you said, it might not be fun). As for the DLSc, for me the revelant question is "are they necessary for the single-player experience?". Whether it's bundled or sold separately is irrelevant.
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ZFR: As to this particular Gremlin case... well, the core game is fine, since you do get the full single player experience (though as you said, it might not be fun). As for the DLSc, for me the revelant question is "are they necessary for the single-player experience?". Whether it's bundled or sold separately is irrelevant.
I think the point here is that the DLC is a product sold on GOG. If it is not DRM-free in and of itself... *shrug*

Again, I don't really have a dog in the fight.
high rated
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Nix31: From what I read in this thread, the notice on the game's page is misleading ( "PLEASE NOTE: An internet connection and GOG Galaxy are required in order to access the multiplayer content in Gremlins, Inc." ) since you need and internet connection and Galaxy for singleplayer as well.
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Qfasa: We already have sent a request to GOG to change this (and few others) description to more informative one.
UPD

GOG kindly updated the DLC store pages to have the following text:

"This DLC requires Gremlins, Inc. in order to play. Please note that this DLC works only with Gremlins, Inc., and is not compatible with the companion product Gremlins vs Automatons."

And the store page of Gremlins, Inc. has been updated to feature the following text:

"PLEASE NOTE: An internet connection and GOG Galaxy are required in order to access the multiplayer and single-player modes of Gremlins, Inc. The companion product Gremlins vs Automatons that is included with Gremlins, Inc. does not require any internet connection in order to play."
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blotunga: One thing I do wonder about is why do most devs omit to include direct TCP/IP multiplayer? That would please most of the whiners. And technically it's pretty easy.
I'm not sure about the other teams but for us supporting a separate server tool is unfeasible as we do not have the bandwidth to provide the support/collect feedback on that. Our focus on the multiplayer side is on offering a lobby where you can find a new game in under 5 minutes. We had a peak of 1,000 players online at the same time and we normally peak at 200-300 players daily, which allows for a new ranked game in a few minutes = you log in, you start playing, no wait time.

Some regions (Japan, China) tend to have a lot more invitation-only games between friends, and granted that China has a bit of a firewall issue, we would have loved to be able to offer those users their own servers to launch, but... if we are to do this, then we will never ship our next game in 2018, and it's a very high price to pay for us.

We're looking at everything from the perspective of our overall goal. Let me share my own perspective here: I believe that Alexey Bokulev is a super-gifted game designer, and my job as a producer is to let him ship as many games as he can. He shipped Eador. Genesis in 2009. His next game, Gremlins, Inc., we created from 2013 through 2016, and even right now, in 2017, we continue to improve it. That's 2 games from Alexey in the period of 2008-2017. That's very few, IMHO. He has a ton of great ideas in his head.

So right now, our focus is to release Spire, the next product, in 2018, making it 18 months from preproduction to Early Access. If we are able to do this, then I can see Alexey delivering 5-7 more awesome titles in the next 10 years. Spending 4 years on 1 game is really a pretty sad rhythm for a game designer whose head is full of ideas.
Post edited May 15, 2017 by SergeiKlimov