Not so much. I'm just in a bad mood. Sorry for snapping.

Whoops, sorry! Not sure how it got assigned to Flub in my head.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's an interesting experiment for sure, but it feels a bit unsportsmanlike. If you are scum, then you knowing that you're scum and knowing who your teammates are is what we need to pick up on, like reading someone in poker. If you genuinely don't know these things then there's nothing for us to read so it feels a bit "cheaty".

Whatever, I've given my feelings. I'll leave it unless other people feel strongly about it.

Still catching up.

I'm just gonna vote Lifthrasil

- Aggressive opening,
- Voting for me when I take some interest in him
- Turning ZFR's "lift or joe" post into a "ZFR and joe" thing
- Non-commital jokey "It feels good to be on joe" leaving his vote on a wagon gogtrial has given a push too.

^ These make me feel justified in this vote.

or OMGUS. whatever.


@Yogsloth - you've appeared pretty confident in recognising scum lift in the past, what do you reckon?

Ok, looks like dedo has things to say about Carradice's play too.

And everyone else. Well I'm glad it's not me.

Sorry, that wasn't my intention. I just meant that explaining the joke suddenly made me not find it funny any more.

Alright dude, I did explain my absence on monday evening. I tried to get back into things yesterday but I was still not of sound mind. I'm ok now though.

What!? Ok I know I'd said my piece, but reading this exchange between you and Joe has been really frustrating.

Why are you still talking about when you started posting? I don't think Joe could have been clearer that it's not about that.

It's about participating without reading your role, plain and simple. The timescale is irrelevant, it's the sequence that matters. Read role first, post after.

I actually do think it’s a good idea still, but don’t get so set on your town core being Town that you give them a pass because anyone can be full of it and fooling you. Funny part about the championship game is I was going to start questioning SilverKeith the next day about several posts he had made when asking people questions. The way he asked them made the person answering them look bad no matter what answer they gave, almost said something Day 1 but got too focused on KZA acting scummy.

I also see you giving yogsloth a Town lean for his opening comment of being Town, beware the seduction he’s one of the best scum players I’ve seen. Don’t take that as me saying he’s scum because it’s way too early to make a cal on his alignment, but be cautious. I might be jaded with him though since he keeps fooling me :-/

What do you think about Scene saying Carradice’s OMGUS gave them Town cred? What do you think of Carradice’s OMGUS vote?

No, of course I can't prove anything without knowing which team you are in. But your method of not knowing your own team initially is especially anti-team (and therefore anti-game) if you are NOT town. If you are scum, you might put a team-mate in a bad position. You can end up hurting your own team. You might even have ended up acting against your team's conditions. What, for example, if your team had a requirement not to vote for each other? (A requirement that in retrospect the Twins should have had in the Shining game). In that case your negligence could easily have led to a loss for your team or a modkill for yourself. Because when you don't read rules, you risk breaking them. In a closed game, an addition to the rules may well be in your PM.

Even without speculation, your statement that you didn't read your PM was bad. If you aren't Town, you exposed yourself to scrutiny. And even if you are plain Town, your play was bad. If you are Town, you've directed the major part of todays discussion towards yourself by the admission that you play intentionally, for a while, without knowing your own role. So if you are Town, you hogged a lot of attention which was then not spent on actual scum. That means, even if you are Town, you played effectively against your own Team.


Carradice isn't that new, that a newbie excuse would be valid. And yes, his claim not to have read his role might have been a safe-guard against observations of meta-change. But that wouldn't make him Town either. The only ones who have to be afraid of being read through meta-observations are scum.


Come on. Don't pretend that you didn't read your PM out of lack of time. A role-PM isn't that long. At least mine isn't. It would have been no big effort to read that first. No, you conciously and intentionally decided to post without reading your PM for a full day. No wiggling out of that and no turning it into a 'Oh, I only did it because I was late' excuse!


Gee, what a surprise. But thanks. I knew I was missing something! ;-)

Here and catching up.

Lovely.


This confuses me. Is there a mistake here and SPF was scum last game or does this statement make no sense?

Could it be that this wall of text was your last entry in this game? Did you do some reading beyond post 164? We're 230 posts beyond that. That should give you something to work with beyond your preliminary reads. Also you have a grand total of 5 posts of which only one had game-relevant content!

For some reason I thought, detailing my thoughts would get reactions from players, more importantly those that had "?" in my thought process, but that only seems to work with people who want to explain something. So, I guess I will have to adress people directly.

I re-checked things and found this. You actually thought that switch had "alignment reasons/roots"? Why?

The only one I voted was Aybak who got put in with us by flavour, but isn't even available for lynching.
Why didn't you vote me?

I know it doesn't (or does it still?) matter anymore, because you got substituted, but just for completeness sake:
But it still doesn't explain why you (and SPF/SMFR) quote someone's thought/opinion with a few words, that don't have any meaning (because no further information then just those few words given) attached to it. Especially no explanation given why either of you felt like quoting/responding to that specific bit at all.
Your post 195 also gives me MafiaGR vibes. Like you're "trying too hard to stay out of trouble" by not commiting to anything you say (except the "I don't want to say anything (yet)'" part).
214: That is sad to hear. -
@everyone
I don't know how to go about this (replacement). The substitute "takes responsibility" for everything GR did or didn't do up to this point? So I would still think they're mafia even though, they themselves didn't do anything yet? Or should I start from scratch with forming an opinion? Or does everyone decide that for themselves?

Really? You didn't consider that to be a reminder for me where to continue reading, because I didn't plan on refreshing and was well aware there will be posts in between? Like other players state things like "replied/read up to post xyz"?
So, ZFR being LAMIST did bother you? But just not enough to evoke your everlasting rage? Not even with LAMIST-joke in early game? Only LAL-jokes do that?
I see you as a player who plays it close to their chest (I think that's the correct phrase). Is that intentional so you won't be found out so earily (or at all) for when you've drawn mafia?
What do you think your chances are of being found out this game?

What are you trying to hint at?
I think it was pointed out in multipled past games already, that the possibility for drawing non-town doesn't encrease.

I actually forgot you are in the game until I got to that post. Is that your favourite tactic for mafia?

And how exactly would you have come to know this? How do you feel about the possibility of both of them being town? How about: One town one mafia?
I see you as a player who plays it close to their chest (I think that's the correct phrase). Is that intentional so you won't be found out so earily (or at all) for when you've drawn mafia?
What do you think your chances are of being found out this game?

Yes, 64 for my only (and first) mafia game.
Summary (from what I remember): I thought I saw mafia making a mistake Day 1 and "went after" (don't know what else to call it) yogsloth and trentonlf. I refused to hammer micro (town) at end of day 1 because I didn't believe him to be scum, couldn't figure out what meaningful posts are (except giving my opinions/thoughts, which doesn't seem to cut it) and work made me pretty much dissapear all of day 2 and I got lynched but was actually relieved (even more so once it became clear/er -in observer thread- I was on a wild goose chase -I thought there were one or two Mentor/s). Yogs got lynched day 3 due to his behavior and GR (cop) investigating him and finding mafia. Don't know which days and which order: SPF (mafia) got NK by SK-Joe, trent got mislynched (which I'm still sorry for, even though it I'm fairly certain had nothing to do with the weird ramblings of a clueless player), Joe got lynched. Joppo (last remaining mafia) did what he could, but town won in the end.
Why I act different? I don't want to make a complete fool of myself again. And my first game at least taught me not to read too much into things/remain in the realm of the realistic. But only because RW gave me pointers about what might be realistic to expect in a typical mafia game.

And your thoughts/opinions on players/state of affairs are?
Do you need encouragement?

vote SMFR/SPF

The only Heidi I know of is the one from an anime series (which might or might not be based on a book). Heidi is the only name I remember though.

My brain is trying to make me see things again:
Are you and zazak/Laser/Plasma the same person?
How do you feel being asked this ^ question?

I think you lie about not reading your pm and that weird stuff about good/bad lynch/anti-town behavior.
Or maybe I'm just really hoping that because you seemed to be a good player in the past games (except the last one, when you lost your cool -at least in my eyes-)
You like charts (I associate this with a meticulous person) Are you actually capable of "not doing your homework"?

So: Anything else you want to say about your behaviour so far?
I will definitely vote you, if this is some metagameestablishing thing. It was annoying the first time (when I wasn't even playing myself) and it still is. In all other cases (including silence) I will make up my mind with the info you gave.

@all:
What does "hammer not required for getting someone lynched" mean for claiming? Still L-1 only?

Well, SPF had posted something about not being able to post for a while since he was a bit under the weather. Maybe that post passed a bit unnoticed between all the noise. He deserves a RL pass, IMHO. Also he has come back.

@Lift, you got my post wrong. Waiting one day until I was done catching up was a conscious decision. It tried to get something out of the crappy situation of arriving late in the game already by mistake. More on this below. Also, I consider the comparisons with people metaboosting their metaflufff harsh and unfair. Same with Dedoporno and his repeated allusions to selfishness and being unconsiderate and eating children raw O.o I can understand that there is this gross misunderstanding with him (unintentional?), whom I have never met, but you should know better by now.

@SPF: Well it was a limited time experiment of one single day (as stated in the thread). With contributions that attested that I was doing my best instead of simply lurking (which I do not like when I see others doing so).

@Dedoporno: LOL at the video but I think you got that sentence in a wrong sense. The rest of the post should have made it clear: Since I was going to limit carefully the posts to neutral contributions to the game for that day (discussion of the rules, reactions to people addressing or voting me), no harm would be done, and there were goods to bring home either as town or as scum.

But I guess that the source of misunderstanding here is this: that a few people play mafia hoping to be scum. A PM telling you that you are scum becomes a lucky lottery ticket for them. However, playing as scum takes away one of the pleasures of the game: figuring out who is scum and who is not. In that respect, scum receives just a consolation prize in the minigame of guessing which townies hold power roles. Something that townies can play themselves, as well, by the way.

So yes, since there was this dreaded task of reading a kiloton of posts, why not playing the little game, for once, for one day, of reading all that and trying to get a few first impressions, WITHOUT SPOILERS AND UNBIASED. I was late to the game anyway, and doing the experiment once, for one day, I repeat, would be harmless, and neutral for both teams.

@Joe You stroke gold in one of your last comments. Frustration at someone who (for a single day while catching up, only!) was posting regardless of alignment: the experimental nature of the act, and the performance side of it. A bit in the line with the comment upon Gogtrial’s post about people following the fad that any kind of praise might be a scumtell. As a performance, it hoped to provide a little light and feedback on people facing their own biases and prejudices when judging other’s posts. For a day! Talking about the rules! Or criticism about a guy who had not posted yet, or barely! In this respect, this one-shot honest performance hopefully has rewarded everyone, not only the player, and humbly provided an instant of reflection.

To repeat. ZFR sensibly (praise?) asked about the extension of the experiment. It finished yesterday after replying to Trent (IIRC the last reply was to Trent) with a post full of question marks, typed by someone held in astonishment. As a takeway, there is no need to repeat this little silly experiment, although if I was to participate in future games, I would read the game thread first, the PM second, and thirdly I would post. I think I would be getting the most of the ongoing discussion. Unless of course I feel like writing early!

Cheers, I am glad that this little thing has sparked so much interest and enlivened the discussion. Without having to resort to no one holding no gun. Isn’t it marvelous?

Re-read it 'when you were Town'. He seems scummy when he has little input but it's seemingly not role indictive

@Flocke

gogtrial wasn't claiming Micro's all-Town run in previous games affects his chances this game.

My Lift/Joe post is semi-serious (unless one of them *is* scum, and lynching both would be a good idea in retrospect, in which case it's totally serious).

Good question. I say when you feel lynch is inevitable, ideally with enough time for people to react. And definitely at L-1.

Mostly non-existent at the moment. I have posted the thoughts and opinions I do have, I just don't tend to have much on D1. No amount of encouragement, whether positive or negative, is going to change that. At the moment I'd be willing the lynch Carradice, but it's not a strong case.

It really has nothing to do with whether you were lurking or not, it's all about the deliberate choice to avoid reading your PM. I see that as equivalent to, if not slightly worse than not reading the rules.

EBWOB (quote fixed) (micro not gogtrial):
I actually forgot you are in the game until I got to that post. Is that your favourite tactic for mafia?

Acutally, it was two of my posts. The wall of text and post 67, where I ... practiced ... or at least tried to practice prodding.
And yes: I still have no idea what meaningful posts are, in case you are/were wondering. Not sure I will ever figure it out.
And yes: I've seen that yogs posted, but haven't read those posts yet. In case that is your next point of critic. Don't have time for that now either.

I should be able to check in again tomorrow.