Because I get strong scum scent from Trent and I want to see if anyones willing to join his wagon. Obviously I don't know who Scum are. So I can look for Scumtells or look for lurky behaviour. Both

You've take Carradice to 3 votes. How likely do you think it is that you've landed on Scum? Because all of his OMGUS suspicions make me think he's probably town.

Nothing of substance, yes. I still see it that way. Once again, I don't care who arrives when as long as they do arrive and start participating immediately after they do so to compensate for their late arrival.

Heh.

Reading comprehension maybe? Others seem to have picked it up.

I haven't taken part in the last games so I don't know what extra weight you might be putting in that expressions. So I asked. You said that includes insults and playing in a way that damages the game for other players. Not reading your PM means you can't be playing for your team in full as you don't know what that team is. Not doing your best means you're not being helpful to your team and possibly are damaging it right now. That is anti-game, yes. If you don't like me using this particular term in that way we can think of something else. The label isn't important.

Someone was saying something about irony escaping someone else earlier. For some reason I was just reminded of that.


All in all - I am not voting you as I don't find you scummy. I have no idea what you are as you don't yourself. You are at the top of the list as I see the way you have decided to play the game (however long that is) is not helping whichever your team is and that's just not OK with me. If you're scum that's technically helping the Town including myself but exactly because I'm not being opportunistic I calling it out. Someone is not getting your full support until the moment and that is "anti-playing-with-others".



It sticks out when taken out of context, sure. I was looking at both scenarios where Carradice is mafa and whey they are Town.

I was waiting for someone to play that card. Funnily, I'm actually not surprised it's you but I'm not sure what that means yet. To answer your question - Carradice is not my scum-buddy for sure. Technically they can still be my teammate but I have no way of knowing that.

I was looking at Carradice as scum in that particular sentence to support the point I was trying to convey. You are right that "assuming" would have been better used that "considering", though.

@Carradice, just so we're clear, you only haven't read your PM first day? You've read it now?

Not the online light. I meant that if Carradice is scum they are not taking part in the always-on scumchat since they don't know about it or how to access it.

Yes I have now. Actually I did after I was done writing yesterday. I chose not to read it for one day, until I had the chance to process those +250 posts. Predictably, the PM did not add much, after all.

Why? If town, in order to have a last tiny drop of info, and also to process those posts without my assigned role getting in the way, in case I had been either a power role or a vanilla role. Also, I expected to ferret out opportunistic fire, be it from town or scum.

In case it needs explanation, in case I had been scum (or a rebel guard, as the signup thread said) at least I would have had the chance to play the game for one day as town and trying to figuring things out, without spoilers. Also, I might have had the chance to provide scum mates with genuine feedback on how they were looking in the thread.


I kept that possibility in mind. I hoped that was not the case, but I knew that if it happened I would have to live with that. So, while I was processing the posts, I was just replying to posts that were addressed to me directly. The exception was discussing the mechanics of the game in an attempt to make things clearer for all.

So, if I was town, opportunistic fire was from someone who deserved to be targeted. If I was scum and the case was that one that you mentioned, that person would be barking at the wrong tree: the real problem was that I had appeared late in the game because I thought it was going to start on monday, is all. If that hypotetical scumbuddy had been mad at me and trying to punish this player that way, that would have been abysmal play on her part, to the point of becoming a liability to be rid of.

In any case, the intention to postpone reading the PM until catching up, just one day, was made clear. No one should have been mad at it.

I think that for the next game, if I can post on the first day or second day, I will start by reading the game thread to have a first unspoiled tast, then read the PM (spoilers?), then post. This time I had to post before reading because I was close to the time limit of two days, since the start.

OK. With a bit more time I go back a bit and go through some posts one by one.

It goes even further. A tie would be fine for scum too, because it results in a no-lynch. So in this game we not only have to think about quick-hammering but also about the policy of un-hammering / balancing. If someone switches wagons close to the deadline leading to two leading people having the same number of votes on them, a no-lynch occurs instead of a simple-majority lynch.

So scum literally have to do nothing in this game. At least on D1. They can just sit back and relax, unless one of their own is leading. In that case they can just start an alternate wagon and hope for a tie. Let's try to get a regular, absolute-majority lynch going and anyone not willing to participate will be noted.


Nice! Finally a game where you read the rules! Now the question is: is this meta-change alignment-indicative in one way or the other? ;-)


Welcome Achmed, thanks for stepping in!


Since you don't back that stated opinion up with votes, I guess it is mostly meant as a joke. Everything else would be quite bad anyhow. Wanting to lynch two players because of past games... but you don't really mean it, I guess.

By the way for the record: yes, I think Joe would find me scummy even if we were scum together. At least that's what I would ask him to do. Him finding me towny would just be a breach of character. :-)


Anti-team is anti-game. If you are playing against your own team, you are breaking the game balance. Which is anti-game. So I don't call this dirty tactics. I call your decision not to read your PM anti-game too. Just like Lasers 'Meta-busting' in the last game.


And this statement is pure BS. It's the old 'act scummy trap' fallacy. If you act weird and someone jumps on it, especially on D1, that just means that they are scum-hunting. To the extent that is possible on D1. They may be true scum-hunting or fake scum-hunting. But saying "I'll vote first for anyone who is actively scum-hunting" (paraphrased) is really, really anti-town. You give a free pass to possible scum, who just coast along and don't react to your weirdness, because they don't care.


What? Why? OMGUS is a reaction that is quite often seen from scum that is under pressure. So what makes OMGUS towny in your eyes? For me, the fact that his reads are omgusy make him look rather scummy.


For me, dedo is clearly the more towny in the dedo<-->Carradice conflict. I know, I pointed out that dedo might be mad at Carradice for not playing for his team because they are one scum-team. But I posted that mostly to gauge reaction and for completeness sake. Anyhow, that would only work if Carradice is scum too. So while there is a faint possibility that both dedo and Carradice are scum, I'm getting Town-vibes from dedo and scum-vibes from Carradice.

I would like to vote for Carradice. But we still have ample time and, one thing that makes me hesitate, he is one of the more active players now. As discussed earlier, all scum really have to do in this game is hold back and let the 'simple majority' lynch mechanic work for them.

So, I will have a look at the lurkers tonight before switching my vote. Right now it still feels good to be on Joe. ;-)

Ah right thanks, I didn't realise it was a running joke.

It struck me would dedo make that joke as mafia (if it's a running joke it's pretty much insignificant)
If he did make it as mafia, how would his teammates react? I wondered if SirP was trying to qualify it as just a joke.

Whatever. I feel stupid now.


I do feel bad. I was thinking that scum dedo would have two people with an invested interest in not picking into his side of things but that's just weak and as soon as I realised I had an actual reason for thinking you town I dropped my line of thinking.

So yeah, as you say it's really just OMGYASSIGTIOOTOYAARYBO

I didn't get a cold, just a spectacularly foul mood which is still lingering today.


It's never happened! I probably would though!
I'd put a lot of effort into it and everyone would ignore me and we'd win >:D


yeah okay I accept


NO what? no! That's not the game! It's just stupid.


hmmm... I'm not sure? I'd forgotten about it till you brought it up :T (sorry dedo, love)


do you think he's lying about not having read his role?

PRE-POST EDIT: what's your take on it now? Was it annoying to have your scummmate kick up a fuss with you, only to find that they hadn't read their role yet?


Sorry... I think I've been ignoring you because I don't want to make everyone else jealous.

Also you've kinda stayed in the background making smart comments. Which, yeah now I think about it is how Vitek do.


Which is basically cheating isn't it? Anyway, it's done now. But whether it benefits or harms anybody, it's just not playing the game properly.

PRE-POST EDIT - I had a few quotes of carradice's picked out and now I just deleted them because I thought what's the point of going into analysis when there can be no tells because he didn't even know his role?
It's pretty frustrating.

>:|
Can I quote you for my website?

Ouch. Are you sure of that? Can you prove that I was playing against my team? Exactly how? Are you blaming me for not doing an effort in reading people? or for not being the kind of mafioso that you are? or what exactly? The crap I am getting for taking one day to read the bloody thread.


@Joe: What is the point of pretending to be in the game when there are 5 pages of 50 posts waiting to be read? I was responding to posts addressing me out of courtesy and to prove that I was not lurking but getting on track with the game. I had warned that it would take one day. Still not getting this.

Maybe the next time that this happens and I am late +2 days I should post placeholder posts and that is it? Or call it a loss already and give up completely?

oh yeah

Unvote dedoporno

A thought that struck me and it's a bit cheaty if I'm correct. @joesapphire says he got his role 1-2 days before the game started yet I only got my role 12 hours before the game started. Could mafia roles with their respective flavour have been given out earlier than Town flavour? Or is he lying about getting the role earlier in order to make a thing of ZFR/Microfish swapping avatars?

@SirP
your lurkyness makes me think you're scum. I thought it last game when you were Town and this game too. Share with us your thoughts on the state of play


I think new town players get suspicious of other players who scumread them. They see it as being attacked. His Scum picks are myself, ZFR and Dedo who was suspicious of him. He scumread me after I changed my vote on him. He's playing a little differently to last game where he was scum in actively accusing more players. Granted he is being prodded far more this game and is under more pressure. I also think if he is Mafia he probably joins an established wagon like mine or Joes. He has a OMGUS excuse to go on mine too

Claiming not to have read his role is bizzare. If true though perhaps he's trying to improve disguising his meta alignment. Actually reading back it looks like he rushed into the game thinking he might be mod killed. That's his claim.

If it isn't true case my vote on him may have shacken him. He claims he thought the game was starting Monday. Why did he think the game was starting Monday? Did Pooka state in any sign up thread when the game was starting? I thought the only way to find out would be the PM. So he would need to read the PM to know the game started unless he just saw it browsing the forum.

If arriving late to the game by mistake is cheating for you...

Frustrating? Remember that I had no reads on people until I could process the thread. At least I was present and trying to contribute. If you think that people should be damned for arriving late, that is O-KAY, just spell it that way. Actually I made a bigger effort than dedo, that had arrived late and mostly lurked and complained about the next guy to arrive late.

Why are you trying to turn it into about you turning up late? It's about you deliberately not reading your role, and posting a whole bunch.
From the point of view of people playing the game, these are posts from somebody who isn't (yet) in the game. Just like it would be annoying if somebody turned up who didn't have a role and started posting, making analysis and getting into arguments.

Turning up late = FINE
Posting without reading your role = DOING IT WRONG

So you prefer straight lurking. I do not. I did what I could to contribute to the game in the limited way that could be done without having read the thread completely. I had announced that I was taking one day to read it all. I contributed to the discussion of the rules, with ZFR calling me scum for disagreeing with him about his appreciation of the changes (WTF). I reacted to Scene's vote on someone who had not even showed up. Also I was way more patient than courtesy granted, trying to be collaborative with dedoporno, whom I had never met. All while trying to catch up.

You would have preferred that I would have started posting at all, when, today?? On Wednesday? Then call the guy a lurker?

It's possible that it was 12 hours and I transformed that to a day or two in my head...

Anyway I like that scene has this thought.

So, Town leans:

ZFR (the thought process that lead to his re-evaluation of the most-votes-at-deadline-is-out rule)
dedoporno (speaking in Joe's defense. A conscious and overy effort to praise/flatter Joe despite this being stated as something he last did as mafia.)
yogsloth (saying he's town straight into the game. This game intro feels different to his scum-game openings)
supplementscene (this recent thought process about possible differences in the times roles were distributed)


Having seen how your MU championship game ended, do you still think this is a good idea? ;p


post whenever you like. Just read your fucking role first