Why? You're "obvscumreading" Bookwyrm, yet you vote flubb. Why do you prefer him?


@HSL and others: Yes, scum has a vested interest in knowing for sure which PRs are out of the game and town has a vested interest in hiding PRs. In the case of investigative roles until some read is revealed.
However, exactly this 'hiding PRs' is a reason NOT TO FALSE CLAIM AS TOWN! Not even soft-claiming. Since each (soft)-claim of a PR will draw some kind of reaction, likely even a counter-claim, from the true PR. So if you aren't, say, the PC but claim to be it, you help scum. Scum, however, has an interest to draw out PRs. So they have a motivation to false soft-claim and judge reactions. So I really disagree on yog's soft-claims being in any way commendable. Unless you are scum. He did help scum with this and I don't see any advantage for town coming out of it.
And I especially don't understand why "don't talk about roles at all on Day 1"-trent suddenly finds 'reasons' for yogs false-soft-claims being oh so towny. Town-trent would have hated what yogs did. Scum-trent, however, needs a justification for why he decided to go for Dessimu even after that PR claim. So he NEEDS to town-read yogs, no matter what. Just as he needed to get rid of Dessimu, since he had already stated, that he had invesigated trent.
Conclusion:
scum-trent had good motivation to town-read yogs and to get rid of Dessimu, either by mislynch or, failing that, by nightkill.
town-trent had no reason to town-read yogs so strongly, who was doing something that town-trent defined as no-go in past games. town-trent probably also wouldn't have gone for Dessimu after that claim in the way that trent did.
So I'm still convinced that the trent in this game is rather scum-trent than town-trent.

I agree on this point. People that aren't doing anything should be a concern.

I've already stepped beyond your progress in analyzing JMich by noting his overall participation AND by taking a step toward trying to change that.

You accuse me of making up excuses about why it doesn't work, then immediately turn around and suggest I'm giving it no thought at all. Which is it, RW? Am I thinking about your idea or not?

I offered you an alternative because I'm saying the avenue you are currently following isn't worthwhile. It was offered in the spirit of "Don't bad mouth it unless you have a better suggestion".

I haven't gotten into wagon analysis yet myself because I'm currently doing the second thing I suggested: rereading people and trying to get alignment clues from what they've posted.

Fear not. If you and Meda are both town, then neither of you have to worry about a NK, and nor do I.

So, which of JMich's comments do you like?


And one last thing: I want to make an out-of-game trade with you.

I'll publicly admit your idea has merit IF 1) You are town, 2) you send me a picture of your face taken when you see my mod-revealed alignment. I'm tempted to add a third condition (scum were all offline), but I'll refrain.

More specific question for you: what do you think of Meda's play and her alignment?

meaning less is not my words. I do however feel that we all have lives and can not be here at all times. To say one person is less scummy just because they are on at a certain time when others are not I have a problem with. And scum have every incentive to keep the game going like it is with the nights falling before the weekends and the game coming back on the weekend so less people are around to post and easier it scum to push town the way they want.

So let me ask

Did you sit on the night before the lynch all night just watching players status to turn green?
Did you get on right before the lynch to check and see who was on for it?
or are you basing their last active times before the lynch on posts?

This will be getting a bit out of order, so bear with me.

I keep notes and track of the votes and wagons progression in a spreadsheet, but use the Vote Counts to check if I, or you, missed or messed something; you shuffling the votes around makes this more time consuming, and sorry, I don't see this as time well spent on the game. JMO

Is this also the reason you set the deadline time at noon GMT? IMHO, this choice doesn't seem to be optimal for either side of the pond, so perhaps you would reconsider moving it into the GMT evening hours?



I wouldn't go as far as applauding, for two reasons. One, It'd have been more effective, and perhaps clued more townies in, if he hadn't jumped on every role available, imo. That alone said he most likely had none, and he practically admitted it in his post #245, so any plan of soaking the NK he may have had didn't look all that good from a certain point on. And two, it added to Dessimu's bafflement, which showed and you (and others?) took as scumminess, which in turn contributed to him not being believed when he finally had to claim at L-1.


Not sure I follow, why isn't it?



[emphasis added]

Your gut? It's clearly stated in the Game Setup (post #2) that there are 3 scum, and so far none of them is dead.


And what result would have been achieved by "looking at a third party" at the time? It came down to the very last minutes before the deadline expired because we couldn't decide who to lynch in five days, do you really think that it was possible to reach a majority decision in the last few hours?

Additionally, why would you be looking at someone else when you were scum-reading yogsloth?


[emphasis added]

We have payers from different timezones, and people have obligations and schedules in the physical world. Not to mention that the deadline time, as already told the mod, is set to the non-optimal, for either side of the pond, noon GMT. There is no way to know, let alone prove, why someone was not around at deadline, even when it's set to a time where they could have been on theoretically. I fail to see how this can be used to deduce anything useful about one's alignment.


While you're not asking me - no, I don't. But then I don't expect town to stay up all night, or get up earlier than scheduled, or interrupt their daily schedule just to be on at deadline; reality check says it's just a game, and such expectations are unrealistic and silly, to say the least. Do you really think that a town-player would go out of their way to be online at a deadline that clashes with their regular schedule?

Because after Day 1 or 2 the numbers are probably going to start biting us in the ass if we did a no lynch. Scum are guaranteed at least 1 NK the first 2 nights and possibly more if we are able to lynch scum and if all that is dying is townies a no lynch is no longer viable.

On another note

Unvote meda
Vote Lift

I don't think he's even reading the thread

Unsure. Seems a bit over aggressive, and quite sure of her reads, but that could be her usual playstyle. She does feel like scum to me, but I'm not known for my good decisions.

Actually, I'm trying to figure out what others saw as lynch-worthy about Dessimu, because I didn't see it, even before I thought that he may be the Parity Cop. I asked specifically about Dessimu, and Dessimu alone. Why are you trying to make something else out of it?


Nice shade (fourth from the bottom).


OK (third from the top).



This almost sounds like if scum don't NK me soon (N2?) I can't be town. How nice.


Not sure I follow the last bit of your statement. You are aware that if we don't lynch scum Today, and they manage to get two NKs through, we're at LyLo Tomorrow, yes? And this is without factoring in the Vigilante. So how is four players "a very lynchable number"? Unless you mean something else?


I'm afraid you've lost me. Elaborate.

Also see medamiedo's post #452. Did you call her town? I take your post as things supportive to your earlier "I don't think she's town" (post #407), did I misunderstand you? If I did, why are you voting her?


I'm still catching up as I was interrupted by a minor family-emergency phone call.

Naw, I was thinking of giving you at least through N3. You're too town and active to not be an attractive NK target.

I hadn't done the math to reach that conclusion; that's a fair point. Regardless, I'm no longer convinced of the accuracy of that list.

RW's initial post was an explanation that his vote was a warning vote, along the lines of "Quit the deceptive soft claiming crap that you do".

Meda states she can't see any town purpose in such an attitude/post/behavior/whatever.

She also said I'm obvscumming. Reread my post, and tell me what you think.

You did not misunderstand me.

That would be true if I were scum. After last game I have learned: as scum, kill HSL quickly. ;-)
But then again WIFOM kicks in, so that might also turn to: let HSL live and get him mislynched on Day 3 on grounds that he should have been killed by then.

That was SO obvious that you would react this way. Thanks for confirming it. Maybe I'm focused on you, but as town you would see my points. I'm sure of that. Maybe you have reasons for that change that have nothing to do with you being scum. But if you do, you didn't manage to communicate them convincingly yet. IF you are town, please read your own posts and try to imagine that someone else wrote them. Then you will start seeing them as scummy too!


@other: meda was discussed quite a lot. On Day 1 I had her as scummy. Day 2 start felt towny, but that might have been an act to distance herself from trent. Sure, she assured us that she never busses, but as scum she might say the same thing. Especially while she was in the act of bussing/distancing. 'I never would do this as scum so I must be town'
I think it's possible that meda and trent are a scum team. I also have doubts about Bookwyrm. I find it more difficult to unterstand what he means in some posts than in past games. Don't know why and if that really is a sign of scumminess. But something feels off. If push comes to shove I could be conviced to vote meda or Bookwyrm, but I feel more sure about trent being scum and we have to get it right today. So I go with my strongest read.

HSL feels towny and JMich feels absent - but they both do that always. So not really readable.

Next I'm going to re-read flubb and sage and see if I can form an opinion on them.

If you have any specifics, then please ask.

The way he replied and reacted to my questioning feels more like town-trentonlf than scum-trentonlf, so I have him leaning town for now, with a small question-mark in the back of my head. I want to go over his back and forth with RWarehall again, but catching up has already given me a headache.



Can you point out what you take as "Dessimu's strongest scumread was trent"? I read puzzlement and frustration in his comments about trentonlf, but don't take any of it as him being his strongest scum-read.


You don't have to like me, if you're town and really don't understand what I'm doing. It's a different matter altogether, if you're scum, however.

A line of questioning doesn't always mean that he value lies solely in direct answers if given, or that said answers are expected in the first place, often the reaction to it can, and is, quite telling. You may not see its purpose because it apparently doesn't fit within your frame of how town goes about questioning and sorting things and others, and tend to read everything that deviates from it as a scum-tell and feel pretty strong about it, but you might want to keep in mind that your frame may not be the only one, or even a universally embraced one. If you're actually town, that is.


This is a good example. You seem to think that just because I don't jump all over people screaming "murder" when something raises my eyebrow, I can't be town. That's not exactly my style, and I can't help you if it clashes with how you expect every single town-player to carry themselves in order for you to clear them. Again, if you're town, otherwise you're just throwing shade my way to look good yourself.

I don't think I've seen anyone before self-proclaim "I'm obvitown", at least not in the tone I read in your post. You exhibit an overly cocky confidence, and somewhat of an expectation we follow your lead, and since I haven't played with you before, I'm not sure what to make of it yet - is it a genuine character trait that manifests itself in the way you play as town, or part of a play-style you've developed and use as either alignment to cover behind when scum? That's not actually a question to you, but you're free to answer it, if you feel inclined enough.


And another one.You overlook that, with the exception of scum, we don't know your alignment, yet you expect us to have already put you in the town-group just because you think you're obvitown in everyone else's eyes, and not only dismiss, in a somewhat contemptuous manner, any arguments by others stating reservations about you, but take them as scum-tells - "no town would ever doubt or scum-read me"; it doesn't work like that. Others' approach and thought process(es) may well differ from yours; expecting other townies to see your play in the exact way you do is not reasonable, imo, even less so since you're new to us and could well be scum trying to lead us to a mislynch.


[emphasis added]

I see that you've warmed up to trentonlf in the meantime, but imo, the bits I highlighted demonstrate how binary you approach others' play, and with strong conviction at that.

Yes, at first read, his actions looked bad. I could have easily just be on his case like you did, and later go "oh no, you may well be town after all", like you did. But I chose to question him, and keep questioning him to form an opinion on "as what alignment did he act the way he did?", and his arguments and reaction would help me in that. And his reaction is one I can see coming from a town-trentonlf more than the opposite.

It's the same reason I question you and others. It may not be the way you operate, and that's fine, if you're town, but you seem to expect everyone to operate the way you do, lest they be labelled scum, and I don't think that's actually helpful to town.


I don't agree, obviously, and have explained my vote, but you are, of course, entitled to your own opinion. Just try to remember that it's your opinion.

And speaking of opinions, two questions:
- What makes you so sure about flubbucket?
- What in Bookwyrm627's post #450 makes you say he's calling you town?



What about trentonlf's reactions to others' (whose?) actions is causing you indigestion?



I don't have the energy to properly go through the back and forth between Bookwyrm627 and RWarehall, and everything in between after post#450 right now, I already got a headache, and need a break, but will try to get back to it later.

Sure let me go and read my own posts since you have failed to do so
*reads own posts and realizes he's a genius*