100% correct.

I think you missed my point.

Don't answer for my benefit. Feel free to ignore me. Feel free to ignore me the rest of the game. Talk to the other players. You see many people asking you questions, and they are not under my mind control. This flippant evasion doesn't help you much.... So forget me, and instead talk to them, because no player can be lynched with only one vote.

And " useless" never ever meant answering questions and being active.

I am going to apologize in advance about my upcoming post, but I need to get this off my chest as it is bothering me too much. I just want people to understand why I react so poorly to yogsloth.

This is for yogsloth
I grew up in an abusive home. Daily mental abuse and often physical abuse, and the mental was far worse. Me and my siblings were told in an almost daily basis how useless we were, how we would never amount to anything. We were put down and kept down, treated as if we were a waste of space and should feel fortunate to be where we were.

Now I've moved on from this, and it has made me a stronger person today. But, when I see someone in real life or on the web who treats others like they are inferior it invokes a defensive response in me. I try not to intrude because I know most people can handle the situation just themselves and move on.

So here we go again for another mafia game and you keep on with your degrading of other people. You often call people idiots for their opinions, call them useless because they don't post enough or post what you consider good content, you act like you are superior to everyone and we should all bow to your genius and thank the gods we are in your presence. You do this almost every game.

I have seen how you interact with others on the forum, and it's nothing like that. You are very personable and generous in spirit and actions. But for some reason when you play this game whatever drive you have makes you turn into a total asshat that I want to literally beat the shit out of because of how you treat others. Treat others how you want to be treated is a simple statement, but a powerful one.

I understand this is me probably over reacting, and I am not looking for you to quit or me to quit. All I am trying to do is point out to you how your words and perceived actions here on a forum can be construed as a form of mental abuse or bullying.

Please don't take this as me being angry with you as I'm not, but I wanted to get it off my chest why I have reacted in the way I did. I want us all to continue to play this game in a friendly manner and have some fun.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

On a game note
@ hyper I'm still thinking on it
@ lift I was a key player in a past game that utilized a strategy involving PM information to secure a town victory. It took a lot of the fun out of the game and made me realize that taking about PMs or mass claiming of roles (I should stipulate this with early on in the game) is never called for. This is why I am so adamant about not discussing roles or PMs at the start of every game. If we are going to do that out of the gate what is the point of even playing.

So I know this post isn't intended for me but yogsloth, but now I also need to get something off my chest: yogsloth was berated quite alot in this game i.e.:
to which the reply was:
and that's a good example of what I'm trying to say. It's just a game don't take everything personal. Of course I also think we shouldn't degrade or humiliate people (I'm prone to taking things personal myself), but yogs has got the message I think, he said he won't use the term useless anymore and he never personally attacked flubs as far as I see it, it's all ingame pressure.
Anyway I only read this game and the one before where yogs wasn't even playing but modding (still "won" it strangely enough), so I can't say anything that happend before these two games that I play/watched. But from what I gathered so far yogs is a pretty fun character and a skillful player, please don't take it so far to make him quit playing, because I think he writes fun and witty comments most of the time. I like reading his posts and quite a bit of the fun I'm having at playing this comes from his posts (Like that beans in the nose incident :D)
So thank you yogs, love to have you here in the game :D

--------------

Ingame:
Also where's that wagon analysis everyone's been talking about? adalia I'm looking at you...

You could do with following your own advice. All you've done this day is declare that flub must be scum, there is no other player who could possibly be scummier, based on... well, absolutely jack shit. You can pat yourself on the back all you like about lynching CSPVG day 1, but we all know he could have flipped town and it was just luck that meant he was actually scum this game.

Let's look at the board shall we?
Yes, there's flub, there's no walls of text, but there never is with flub. That's not how he plays. I don't think he could be quite accused of lurking though as his contributions have been fairly regular. Not backing down on yogs with all the information available to him, that does look a little bad, but I've seen worse (and done worse) from town before. The thing with flub is, he is very intelligent (he may like to claim otherwise, but I know it to be true) but he portrays everything in a jokey fashion, it's up to you to pay attention to his posts and pick up on the (usually pretty good) insights he has. Yes, he probably does this so that when he is scum it's easier to hide and harder to catch him out, but you know what? That just means it's a damn good play. Could he be scum this game? Certainly. Have I seen any strong evidence he is? No.

What about Lift? Spend most of day 1 wanting to lynch yogs, then all of a sudden 'got' the thing and now is fully signed up certain town. Really? Without any access to the 'secret' code I had guessed the probably reason for yogs claim within the first three or four pages of the thread. Lift apparently (from what I gather from his posts) has the secret code or some part of it available to him and still took most of the day to see it.. and now he's advocating a mass claim (which in practically every game I've played, despite usually being a pro-town move, gets called out as being scummy) and no has even batted an eyelid?

Then there's Krypsyn. As inscrutable as ever but you can't help but feel something's off by the way he keeps trying to defend untenable positions... And well... he's always scum. Sure bet.

What about Sage, cristi or BlueMooner? I think they've all checked in now, but valid reasons or not they've all been lurky as hell and that was enough of a reason to vote CSPVG yesterday but it's not good enough anymore?

There's trent, who still doesn't quite seem to have picked up on what makes yogs and the others town, which is a little odd to say the least as everyone else seems to have got it.

There's mchack, who soft claimed vanilla day 1 and is now trying to push for a mass claim.

I'm sure anyone could give you a dozen reasons they find me (and any other's I've left out) suspicious if you asked.

And then there's you; self proclaimed town cop on day 1, yet hasn't been able to return a useful result, and managed to out a considerable number of town power roles day 1, it can't really be a coincidence that Agent got NK'd considering how much he had to say about yogs' claim and play.

Yeah, you got lucky and got CSPVG day 1. Big frickin' woo. Why don't you try playing the game too instead of just phoning in a vote and belittling everyone until you get your way?

Well said. I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, but I get where you're coming from. As mchack has pointed out I can't really claim to be entirely blameless when it comes to name calling, but I think for me it's generally a reaction to those who act that way first (i.e. HijacK and yogs), and I (usually) mean it in fun.

I don't want anyone to give up playing the game, but if there's one thing I can't stand it's when people think they know better than everyone else (particularly without any good reason).


As for wagon analysis; a rushed last minute lynch on a lurker doesn't leave much to go, but I'll see what I can do.

true, but there's also timing you need to take into account, jumping off hijack's wagon when it meant suicide to do it, to save an important townie. Pretty much confirmed by quite a few people including our flipped town doctor. He couldn't have taken

I have just look at yogsloths wagon after Hijack's claim and his insistance yogs is scum even today. For me that still means at least he can't have a town power role. So Scum, Neutral or vanilla I'd guess. But why the insistence if he's vanilla?

I also wondered about that. But he figured it out pretty well and called out flubs on it in the process. But he also went of yogsloths wagon about the time hijack claimed. that means something for me.

indeed, care to vote? he _was_ asking for some pressure :)

as for Sage and cristi they at least don't wanna lynch out cop until they figured it out.
As for Bluemooner I really don't know what's up with him. From his late game turn on yogs I'd guess he wasn't thinking on the same lines as the rest. He probably thought yogs was a bomb or a hider or something.

Yep what is up with that, really?

hehe, finally some recognition. I somehow thought my posts were invisible or something :) But I did retract the push for a massclaim bit earlier due to popular demand...

c'mon he pretty much proved his alignment when choosing suicide over lynching a town role. (even lift saw it and as you pointed out he was anti yogs from the beginning) Now there's alot of info out there for all of us to go on

That's not the only wagon to go for even though it's also interesting since scum knew from the beginning cspvg was one of them.
Look at yogsloths wagon and hijacks wagon! and what happened after hijacks claim...

On Refresh I saw trents post but have to think it over before commenting on it...

thanks for sharing. So what's the twist? couldn't said twist be the restriction?
As for protection, I think scum has so many targets right now, you should feel pretty safe, since they only can kill one at a time. And so can we.
So if not flubs anyone else who's pinging your scumdar aside from yogs?

I don't think the twist is the restriction. I have a chance each time I check someone out of being tempted to take any money's I find to help my wife receive cancer treatments. If I fail whatever check the mod does I take the money and the person knows they were visited if I pass and leave the money they are none the wiser.

As to who I find scummy at this time, I actually thought you might be but not so sure now. But right now Cristi seems the most suspect to me.

Could you please list all of the questions I have not answered??

This is accurate.

You also took my money!!!

Sorry flub, I failed my roll this time. But my wife appreciates it!

I needed that money for calf implants.

LOL, calf implants. I shudder to think what your legs look like if you need calf implants.

It is precisely because I listed my assumptions that I want other people to do the same

I always had him leaning town, as the alternative seemed rather risky for scum. However, we have no idea what informatin scum got at the beginning of the game and what may or may not be in the PMs. The main way I had, and still have, to arrive at the truth is to pressure people with questions and votes.

I didn't have the complete picture, but I was going on what I did know, based on my own PM. When yogsloth blank stared at at me the first time, I thought he was clueless to the mechanic as *I* understood it, so I voted for him. When he blank stared again, I unvoted him because I thought he was trying to give me a poker face affirmative that he understood, but didn't want to say anything. I didn't realize until the end of the Day that he had not been indicating such.

No, I have known about the restrictions, at least that they were a thing, since the game started. I was mainly concerned with HijacK's claim, because it seemed too convenient. It was the 'Reserve' thing that threw me. He could have made up the role, based on information available in the thread (and possibly granted to scum in their PMs), but the way he had 'Reserve' seemed a little too convenient. I moved my vote back away from him, because I thought maybe other people had something similar to 'Reserve' or 'Back-up', and it meant something to them. (Note: this would be different from a restriction like agentcarr's, or potentially yogsloth's, in terms of mechanics.)

Super.