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Time4Tea: I had been planning to spend $150-200 on GOG this year, but instead I will be spending that at Zoom Platform, to help build up a viable DRM-free alternative store.
I took a look at the zoom website as I am also interested in other DRM free resellers of games but they don't explicitly mention they sell DRM free games or guarantee any and all games they sell *are* DRM free.... For all you know, it could just be the publisher's decision to not include DRM in their games like some do on the steam platform....and you just happen to have had bought a game on there that didn't require any activation, account creation or signing into one that they "require" for the game to work(multiplayer/coop modes I can understand for cross platform multiplayer or coop modes, but can also be done without needing to create a first or third party account to achieve playability in multiplayer or coop modes), serial key input, signing up for a newsletter, registering the game, or other hoops to jump through just to install and play your purchased game(s).

Also you make some interesting points that I'll keep in mind.
Post edited July 09, 2022 by Newbie
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Time4Tea: I had been planning to spend $150-200 on GOG this year, but instead I will be spending that at Zoom Platform, to help build up a viable DRM-free alternative store.
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Newbie: I took a look at the zoom website as I am also interested in other DRM free resellers of games but they don't explicitly mention they sell DRM free games or guarantee any and all games they sell *are* DRM free.... For all you know, it could just be the publisher's decision to not include DRM in their games like some do on the steam platform....and you just happen to have had bought a game on there that didn't require any activation, account creation or signing into one that they "require" for the game to work(multiplayer/coop modes I can understand for cross platform multiplayer or coop modes, but can also be done without needing to create a first or third party account to achieve playability in multiplayer or coop modes), serial key input, signing up for a newsletter, registering the game, or other hoops to jump through just to install and play your purchased game(s).

Also you make some interesting points that I'll keep in mind.
Actually, if you scroll a bit further down their front page, it says "Always DRM-free" at least a couple of times. I'm fairly active on the Zoom Platform Discord channel - the store staff/owner post on there frequently and are very frank and open. They are 100% committed to DRM-free and they have stated they will never develop their own client application. Their chief technical guy often talks about the meticulous care they take to strip DRM out of any game they sell.
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Time4Tea: I had been planning to spend $150-200 on GOG this year, but instead I will be spending that at Zoom Platform, to help build up a viable DRM-free alternative store.
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Newbie: I took a look at the zoom website as I am also interested in other DRM free resellers of games but they don't explicitly mention they sell DRM free games or guarantee any and all games they sell *are* DRM free.... For all you know, it could just be the publisher's decision to not include DRM in their games like some do on the steam platform....and you just happen to have had bought a game on there that didn't require any activation, account creation or signing into one that they "require" for the game to work(multiplayer/coop modes I can understand for cross platform multiplayer or coop modes, but can also be done without needing to create a first or third party account to achieve playability in multiplayer or coop modes), serial key input, signing up for a newsletter, registering the game, or other hoops to jump through just to install and play your purchased game(s).

Also you make some interesting points that I'll keep in mind.
In case you were in any doubt, I have attached a screen capture from the zoom platform main page.
Attachments:
always.png (22 Kb)
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nightcraw1er.488: Yes, it’s a funny turn around, as GOG drop Linux support steam is investing heavily into it both software and hardware. Will be interesting to see where epic goes, maybe they will want to compete with steam deck (unreal deck??). Could be an interesting clash and would hopefully bring prices down on handhelds.
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Longcat: Agreed. Most of my gamer friends in the IT industry choose Steam, not because of DRM-issues, but because they can actually play the games they buy. They all use Linux.
And that way they are a part of 1% of the userbase of Steam.
Even Apple does outshine their numbers. And this 1% is for a plattform that does try to push Linux by even building HW for it.

1% of the Steam Userbase is a Number you can work with.
1% of the GoG Userbase is not something that will pay your efforts.

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Even puplishers/developers refuse to add Linux versions to GoG, because maintaining them does not worth the effort.
It has nothing to do with GoG (that is a store...) is neglecting Linux, that is because the number of Linux hardcores on GoG is nothing to speak of.

Sorry for you, but for years it becomes more and more comical, how important and Legion the Linux users see themself.
Nearly as funny as "Linux will beat windows as the major enduser system within the next years" - something i heard for the first time in 1998 or so. Around the time of Suse 6.
Its like fusion energy. That is something too, that is only 10 years away from its major breakthrough - for at last 40 years now.

Linux will never become something important at the enduser market. Not as long at it is like it is now, not as long as the com as it is now.
Any store, publisher or developer who does not care about it, I can understand them.

And don't get me wrong.
I would love to have something better than Windows.
Linux isn't this "better". It got its own problems, flaws, fuckups and broken by design parts.
As well as Apple stuff, that is even less an option but got a much bigger userbase when we talk about endusers.

And Epic, well, Epic won't give a shit.
They build broken software and don't care.
Some find from a german well known IT guy, run through DeepL

https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9c4b1b52

"Is anyone here an Epic Games customer? Uses their launcher? Can't log in there for over a month?
The launcher leaves logs under Windows, in %localappdata%/epicgameslauncher/saved/logs. There you will find epically outdated versions of curl, openssl and zlib, and the reason for the problem: Epic screwed up their AWS configuration.

During login, it tries to connect to catalog-public-service-prod06.ol.epicgames.com, and it returns a dozen or so different IPs, one of which seems to work (maybe more), but others throw errors ranging from "Unknown CA" to "certificate expired" and "hostname not found in certificate".

Using libcurl 7.55.1-DEV
supports SSL with OpenSSL/1.1.1

supports HTTP deflate (compression) using libz 1.2.8

It really makes you wonder what these people do for a living.
I tried to report this to their support system, but they say my email is invalid. Well, then not.

Current are curl 7.83.1 (gave one or the other vuln since then), OpenSSL 3.0.4 (gave one or the other vuln since then), 1.2.12 (1.2.8 is from 2013!!). I find irresponsible to bring something like this among the people.

So if anyone here knows someone at Epic, or knows who is responsible for security there (if there is someone), then please give them a short kick. This does not work at all.

My workaround was to nail down a working IP in the hosts file. So login works again. But now that I know what insecure components are in there, I have spontaneously hardly desire to start the launcher at all."
Post edited July 09, 2022 by randomuser.833
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Longcat: Agreed. Most of my gamer friends in the IT industry choose Steam, not because of DRM-issues, but because they can actually play the games they buy. They all use Linux.
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randomuser.833: And that way they are a part of 1% of the userbase of Steam.
Even Apple does outshine their numbers. And this 1% is for a plattform that does try to push Linux by even building HW for it.

1% of the Steam Userbase is a Number you can work with.
1% of the GoG Userbase is not something that will pay your efforts.

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Even puplishers/developers refuse to add Linux versions to GoG, because maintaining them does not worth the effort.
It has nothing to do with GoG (that is a store...) is neglecting Linux, that is because the number of Linux hardcores on GoG is nothing to speak of.

Sorry for you, but for years it becomes more and more comical, how important and Legion the Linux users see themself.
Nearly as funny as "Linux will beat windows as the major enduser system within the next years" - something i heard for the first time in 1998 or so. Around the time of Suse 6.
Its like fusion energy. That is something too, that is only 10 years away from its major breakthrough - for at last 40 years now.

Linux will never become something important at the enduser market. Not as long at it is like it is now, not as long as the com as it is now.
Any store, publisher or developer who does not care about it, I can understand them.

And don't get me wrong.
I would love to have something better than Windows.
Linux isn't this "better". It got its own problems, flaws, fuckups and broken by design parts.
As well as Apple stuff, that is even less an option but got a much bigger userbase when we talk about endusers.

And Epic, well, Epic won't give a shit.
They build broken software and don't care.
Some find from a german well known IT guy, run through DeepL

https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9c4b1b52

"Is anyone here an Epic Games customer? Uses their launcher? Can't log in there for over a month?
The launcher leaves logs under Windows, in %localappdata%/epicgameslauncher/saved/logs. There you will find epically outdated versions of curl, openssl and zlib, and the reason for the problem: Epic screwed up their AWS configuration.

During login, it tries to connect to catalog-public-service-prod06.ol.epicgames.com, and it returns a dozen or so different IPs, one of which seems to work (maybe more), but others throw errors ranging from "Unknown CA" to "certificate expired" and "hostname not found in certificate".

Using libcurl 7.55.1-DEV
supports SSL with OpenSSL/1.1.1

supports HTTP deflate (compression) using libz 1.2.8

It really makes you wonder what these people do for a living.
I tried to report this to their support system, but they say my email is invalid. Well, then not.

Current are curl 7.83.1 (gave one or the other vuln since then), OpenSSL 3.0.4 (gave one or the other vuln since then), 1.2.12 (1.2.8 is from 2013!!). I find irresponsible to bring something like this among the people.

So if anyone here knows someone at Epic, or knows who is responsible for security there (if there is someone), then please give them a short kick. This does not work at all.

My workaround was to nail down a working IP in the hosts file. So login works again. But now that I know what insecure components are in there, I have spontaneously hardly desire to start the launcher at all."
To be fair, and I don’t use Linux so have no vested interest, at work all server infrastructure, plus most of the development software we use is all Linux. I do believe that support for it has come a long way. If it wasn’t so disparate (I mean having a top 100 distro list for example) then I would be more inclined to use it. The whole steam deck/proton is one push, but there are other big players out there now pushing it. Maybe in the future. I have just got a win 11 laptop, not really sure what to make of 11, open shell still appears on the left even if the main bar is central. Time will tell on that.

Edit: also, wonder how much rollback there is. Obvious one, steam deck, how many are installing windows on it? Same for laptops that come with Linux which is not something seen much before. Once something comes like it, there will be less impetuous to change which is one reason why windows has dominated for so long.
Post edited July 09, 2022 by nightcraw1er.488
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Deleted!

Thread became useless, discussions pointless and misdirected!

So, once again! I don't care anymore and goodbye!
Post edited July 12, 2022 by GlorFindel
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nightcraw1er.488: The whole steam deck/proton is one push, but there are other big players out there now pushing it.
That might be, but Steam is pushing Linux for years now and they managed something like 1,1% Linux Userbase to like 1,18% or so.
Even it this goes exponential - I won't survive Linux overtaking Windows.

It already starts with the "most used" Linux within those 1% Linux userbase is used by 11% of the Linux users.
The first 5 most used Linux destris got less then 50% of the whole userbase.

So yeah, as you said, one of the biggest problems (that won't be overcome with how Linux and his Com are today) is how disparated it is.

But I saw the time Suse was pushed to some extent (at last in germany) and it just didn't do anything.

So yeah, I don't expect any change on that in my lifetime, until MS fuckes it up much much much worse then they do now.
And even then...

So we are back again at what was first, Hen or Egg.
Post edited July 10, 2022 by randomuser.833
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Longcat: Agreed. Most of my gamer friends in the IT industry choose Steam, not because of DRM-issues, but because they can actually play the games they buy. They all use Linux.
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randomuser.833: And that way they are a part of 1% of the userbase of Steam.
Even Apple does outshine their numbers. And this 1% is for a plattform that does try to push Linux by even building HW for it.

1% of the Steam Userbase is a Number you can work with.
1% of the GoG Userbase is not something that will pay your efforts.

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Even puplishers/developers refuse to add Linux versions to GoG, because maintaining them does not worth the effort.
It has nothing to do with GoG (that is a store...) is neglecting Linux, that is because the number of Linux hardcores on GoG is nothing to speak of.

Sorry for you, but for years it becomes more and more comical, how important and Legion the Linux users see themself.
Nearly as funny as "Linux will beat windows as the major enduser system within the next years" - something i heard for the first time in 1998 or so. Around the time of Suse 6.
Its like fusion energy. That is something too, that is only 10 years away from its major breakthrough - for at last 40 years now.

Linux will never become something important at the enduser market. Not as long at it is like it is now, not as long as the com as it is now.
Any store, publisher or developer who does not care about it, I can understand them.

And don't get me wrong.
I would love to have something better than Windows.
Linux isn't this "better". It got its own problems, flaws, fuckups and broken by design parts.
As well as Apple stuff, that is even less an option but got a much bigger userbase when we talk about endusers.

And Epic, well, Epic won't give a shit.
They build broken software and don't care.
Some find from a german well known IT guy, run through DeepL

https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9c4b1b52

"Is anyone here an Epic Games customer? Uses their launcher? Can't log in there for over a month?
The launcher leaves logs under Windows, in %localappdata%/epicgameslauncher/saved/logs. There you will find epically outdated versions of curl, openssl and zlib, and the reason for the problem: Epic screwed up their AWS configuration.

During login, it tries to connect to catalog-public-service-prod06.ol.epicgames.com, and it returns a dozen or so different IPs, one of which seems to work (maybe more), but others throw errors ranging from "Unknown CA" to "certificate expired" and "hostname not found in certificate".

Using libcurl 7.55.1-DEV
supports SSL with OpenSSL/1.1.1

supports HTTP deflate (compression) using libz 1.2.8

It really makes you wonder what these people do for a living.
I tried to report this to their support system, but they say my email is invalid. Well, then not.

Current are curl 7.83.1 (gave one or the other vuln since then), OpenSSL 3.0.4 (gave one or the other vuln since then), 1.2.12 (1.2.8 is from 2013!!). I find irresponsible to bring something like this among the people.

So if anyone here knows someone at Epic, or knows who is responsible for security there (if there is someone), then please give them a short kick. This does not work at all.

My workaround was to nail down a working IP in the hosts file. So login works again. But now that I know what insecure components are in there, I have spontaneously hardly desire to start the launcher at all."
I did not bother reading your overly long rant, because quite frankly, life is too short.

But if your starting point is that my friends in IT (or just everyone in IT) are the only ones using Linux, you are already wrong. If GOG does not want to support Linux, then of course those who use it will go to Steam to buy their games. And if you think that number is insignificant, why write a two-page rant about it?
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Longcat: But if your starting point is that my friends in IT (or just everyone in IT) are the only ones using Linux, you are already wrong. If GOG does not want to support Linux, then of course those who use it will go to Steam to buy their games. And if you think that number is insignificant, why write a two-page rant about it?
Yeah, your friends are among 1,18% of the whole Steam userbase. Even while trying to push Linux for years.
Those big numbers of them and other Linux Users, who make just half the number together compared to the Apple users.

1,18% of the steam userbase is a number you can earn (very little) money with.
1,18% of the GoG userbase - not sure if those pay the bill for maintaining the Linux version on GoG. But the answer seems to be No.
Because it is not GoG who decides if a Linux Version will be sold here or not, but the decision of the Dev/Publisher.

Short for you.
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Longcat: But if your starting point is that my friends in IT (or just everyone in IT) are the only ones using Linux, you are already wrong. If GOG does not want to support Linux, then of course those who use it will go to Steam to buy their games. And if you think that number is insignificant, why write a two-page rant about it?
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randomuser.833: Yeah, your friends are among 1,18% of the whole Steam userbase. Even while trying to push Linux for years.
Those big numbers of them and other Linux Users, who make just half the number together compared to the Apple users.

1,18% of the steam userbase is a number you can earn (very little) money with.
1,18% of the GoG userbase - not sure if those pay the bill for maintaining the Linux version on GoG. But the answer seems to be No.
Because it is not GoG who decides if a Linux Version will be sold here or not, but the decision of the Dev/Publisher.

Short for you.
You just repeated the first few lines of your (barely comprehensible) rant. It seems you have not understood the statements that were made at all. If GOG does not want to support Linux, that is their choice. But Linux users will then opt out of using GOG.

Of course GOG decides if GOG should support Linux or not. They are the ones who announced they would support Linux, and then dropped it.

Snore.
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Guys, let's not continue sidetracking the thread into a debate about Windows vs Linux. That's not what it's for. There are other threads for discussing that. Thanks!
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Time4Tea: Guys, let's not continue sidetracking the thread into a debate about Windows vs Linux. That's not what it's for. There are other threads for discussing that. Thanks!
It is not about windows or Linux.

It is about understanding, that not GoG decides if they bring the Linux installers of a game to GoG, but the Dev or the Publisher.

You know, that is a big problem of a lot of guys in here. Understanding what is the decision of GoG - and where somebody else is in charge.

GoG does not produce the games sold here.
GoG does not even own the games sold here (so, GoG is not like a trader like your local supermarked, that usually owns everything that is sold there). At best CDPR owns some games.
GoG sells as a merchant on commission.

GoG in general does support Linux. You want to upload a Linux installer of your game? Do so, the tagging for it is there. We got plenty of Linux Installers for a lot of games here. And the offline installers are updated like every other installer.

GoG Galaxy does not work with Linux - and it does not work with Mac.
Didn't saw anybody ranting about "GoG does not want to support Mac" here. Funny enough, because you can say we got twice the amount of people compared to the Linux users.

So it is up to the Devs/Publisher to decide if the Linux Userbase on GoG is big enough to pay for the work the Linux Installers will make or not.
And we got some who simply say "no". Sometimes they even provide the Mac Installers but refuse to provide the Linux ones, simply because the Mac-Userbase will be already twice as large.

It has nothing to do with GoG, it is an economical decision of the owner of a game, who does sell here.

Still, you try to pretend it is GoGs fault.

And to be honest, Linux users cry the loudest, when they feel being neglected...
Post edited July 10, 2022 by randomuser.833
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Time4Tea: Guys, let's not continue sidetracking the thread into a debate about Windows vs Linux. That's not what it's for. There are other threads for discussing that. Thanks!
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randomuser.833: GoG Galaxy does not work with Linux - and it does not work with Mac.
Didn't saw anybody ranting about "GoG does not want to support Mac" here. Funny enough, because you can say we got twice the amount of people compared to the Linux users.
There is a Mac client for Galaxy. Not that most people in this thread want to use Galaxy anyway.

https://content-system.gog.com/open_link/download?path=/open/galaxy/client/2.0.51.58/galaxy_client_2.0.51.58.pkg

Please respect the wishes of OP, and stop derailing the thread with your rants.
Post edited July 10, 2022 by Longcat
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Time4Tea: Guys, let's not continue sidetracking the thread into a debate about Windows vs Linux. That's not what it's for. There are other threads for discussing that. Thanks!
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randomuser.833: It is not about windows or Linux.

It is about understanding, that not GoG decides if they bring the Linux installers of a game to GoG, but the Dev or the Publisher.

You know, that is a big problem of a lot of guys in here. Understanding what is the decision of GoG - and where somebody else is in charge.

GoG does not produce the games sold here.
GoG does not even own the games sold here (so, GoG is not like a trader like your local supermarked, that usually owns everything that is sold there). At best CDPR owns some games.
GoG sells as a merchant on commission.

GoG in general does support Linux. You want to upload a Linux installer of your game? Do so, the tagging for it is there. We got plenty of Linux Installers for a lot of games here. And the offline installers are updated like every other installer.

GoG Galaxy does not work with Linux - and it does not work with Mac.
Didn't saw anybody ranting about "GoG does not want to support Mac" here. Funny enough, because you can say we got twice the amount of people compared to the Linux users.

So it is up to the Devs/Publisher to decide if the Linux Userbase on GoG is big enough to pay for the work the Linux Installers will make or not.
And we got some who simply say "no". Sometimes they even provide the Mac Installers but refuse to provide the Linux ones, simply because the Mac-Userbase will be already twice as large.

It has nothing to do with GoG, it is an economical decision of the owner of a game, who does sell here.

Still, you try to pretend it is GoGs fault.

And to be honest, Linux users cry the loudest, when they feel being neglected...
Again, to be fair though, the supermarket has a responsibility for what it’s selling. If Tesco started selling beans for men only, they would be shut down so fast! So forget the Linux part, it’s GOG’s responsibility for what they sell here, I mean the whole “curation” and such like.
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nightcraw1er.488: Again, to be fair though, the supermarket has a responsibility for what it’s selling. If Tesco started selling beans for men only, they would be shut down so fast! So forget the Linux part, it’s GOG’s responsibility for what they sell here, I mean the whole “curation” and such like.
A supermarked buys product, owns them and sells them.
Tesco buyed the beans from the producer and owns them now before they sell them to you.
There can be some things in the contract what they are allowed to do, but if there are not, they own them and they can do with them what the fuck they want.
Tesco will get its money from the difference in the price they had to pay and in the price you will have to pay.

GoG is someone who supplies a place where someone who wants to sell and someone who wants to buy can come together and is taking over all the legal process of the selling for the one who wants to sell for a fee.

Using your example.
Tesco would give some space for displaying the beans to the producer of the beans and would take over billing process for them, while getting some money for every sold can of beans from the sell price.
In that case the one who wants to sell the beans makes the rules.
Tesco could only say yes or no to the rules. If they say no, the one who sells their beans will go elsewhere.

GoG and Tesco are 2 very different types of sales places. You have to understand that in the first place.
They are very different in how who owns stuff, they are very different in how the process works, they are very different in their legal definition.

GoG could refuse to take a game when the seller is unwillingly to provide a Linux version and justifies it in the way, that they will only lose money if they did.
Because nobody want to lose money by supporting stuff that does pay its bill.

So they would not only anger they one who wants to sell here, so that they will think twice about coming back, they will also refuse to bring the game for 99% of their customers just to please a very vocal 1%.

So they take what they can get.
Post edited July 10, 2022 by randomuser.833