Everything I have posted makes perfect sense to me. I need you to help me out a little. Is that so hard? Show me where the issue lay, and I will do my best to use small words... or pictures ... or more videos. ;)

Rainbows!

And that was ... well... I was going to say your first mistake.. but... moving on. Dangit.. I need a cookie...

I tell you I prefer not to keep talking about roles or PMs, yet you want to specifically mention my name in relation to why we should. Are you just trying to antagonize me?

Let me see if I can try and explain this to you again. At the start of the game the only advantage town has is sheer numbers, and day one it will not get much better that. What is it scum needs to know to keep the upper hand? More info on who has possible power roles so they can remove them from the game and hinder town from getting more info. So why would you want to discuss the very thing they need right from the start? Will the need arise to discuss possible roles or something from a PM at some point during the game, absolutely. Is there any reason to do it on day 1 for town, absolutely not.

I think it just bothers you that day 1 there is a lack of information, well the truth is that's the way it will always be. The game is designed that way. If this was a game of revealing your PM and role info from the start and guess who's lying then it would not be called a mafia game.

You want to know what someone is thinking here's a thought, ask them. No need to go on about roles or PMs, ask questions to get what info you want.
"Hey yogs, what's your thoughts on this town, love it? like it? kind of hate it?"
"Hey yogs, what do you think of the bullies who ran our friend out of town?"
"Hey yogs, can you please stop trying to feed the scum info?"

-The town is pretty good. I mean, I wouldn't marry it, but I would definitely have sex with it and still respect it in the morning. And then have sex with it again.
-Bullies suck. But was that ranting nutjob really our friend? I mean, s/he did call me a doucheface. Ironically, not to my face. And after all I did for him/her - man, the nerve of that c__ and/or c___!

Frankly I think the town is better off now that they've gone. Y'know, assuming they don't sneak back into town at night as a vigilante or something.

Though really, there's only 14 of us, and presumably we don't all have amnesia. Wouldn't one of us remember who that was? Maybe they have really good makeup, or a Zorro costume or something.

Thank you all for the well wishes and such.

They are closing the place down and all are to be given their "freedom." They are looting this place like a CVS in Baltimore.

I got a rather galling letter from corporate reminding me to continue providing excellent service and to basically keep doing my job until the end.

I'll take their input and adjust my attitude accordingly.

I only have a moment here so I'll state I'm cool with Leonard taking a break. But of course it is all up to Vitek.

@trentonlf....I'll have a Maker's, neat.....I don't want to see this glass empty until I'm on the floor in a pool of my own shame.

I'm going to say this much. The game of Mafia is won and lost by the town, not the scum. The scum already know far more than we do (or will when they speak with each other at night). The town knows next to nothing. This fear of saying anything lest the scum learn too much is just backwards. They already know too much and we know too little. Town has more to gain by sharing information than lose.

In fact, if one wants to really break a Mafia game (which I don't endorse because it takes all the fun out of it), everyone role claims Day 1. Town will win virtually every time because it becomes very obvious who the most likely scum candidates are and the scum can't night kill us as fast as we can lynch them. Even if we're wrong once or twice.

This said, I am very very skeptical about anyone who wants to stifle discussion Day 1. That is a scum position. The more the town knows the better. The less the scum have to be on record for, the better for them. Avoiding town role discussion makes sense, but there really isn't anything wrong with discussing scum set-up or roles at all, except for the fact we know nothing, so its a mostly fruitless conversation.

But hey, you know, we could always discuss nothing Day 1 and no-lynch. Scum kills one of us because they already know who is town or not and we can enter Day 2 just about as ignorant as we are on Day 1. Does that sound good?

Nope. The more we discuss, the more people are put on record, the better it is for town. The people saying very little and especially the people trying to distract the conversation from being anything useful are most likely doing so for a reason. And that reason is more than likely not to our benefit...

You are right. The scum already know which townies have roles that should be targeted (cop, doctor), which are vanilla and can be ignored, and which townies have roles that should be ignored (Paranoid Gun Owner). Discussing this will obviously help town [/sarcasm]

One scum claims cop early on. Another scum claims vanilla. One more may claim tracker. Another possibility is claiming miller, especially if you have laid breadcrumbs about it from the start. Not to mention that in some games, the mod also gives falsclaims to the scum.

They can cause mislynches though.

You are aware the difference between "No discussions", "No role discussions" and "No PM discussions", are you not? I would rather have the investigative roles alive on Day 3 telling us their actions rather then knowing the investigative roles on Day 1 and losing them on Day 2.

So no, PM and Role discussions on Day 1 are not something that helps town. And I'm really surprised how many people still think that kind of discussion is actually beneficial on Day 1.

I actually am, but, maaannn... All those notes really take it out of you.

I really like this line of Sage's. I totally agree that lurkers are very little use to town, but all too often people seem set to lynch them just for lurking. Just like Sage says, if you want to hide, staying super quiet actually draws attention to you in this game.
Then again, sometimes scum do just lurk at the edges, so there's obviously no hard-and-fast rule.

This is the kind of admissions that I like. Trentonlf is fairly certain Bookwyrm is scum, but he realizes that if Bookwyrm flips town, then trentonlf will be in a spot of hot water. (Rather sneakily, he still pushes that he is town with his "'unfortunate' next candidate" line.)

I am totally with Bookwyrm, ON THIS POINT. "Could you make a townie and me the last two to be mod-killed?" does not grammatically exclude Bookwyrm from being town. The implications are there, but that is just the English language.
I'm not so sure about Bookwyrm's alignment, as he has said some rather bizarre things in the name of scum-baiting.

I love Krypsyn's random switch from himself to RWarehall. Obviously, it makes sense for him to finally take his vote off himself, but to vote for RWarehall without reason either means he wasn't thinking when he did it, or he has some sneaky little plan up his sleeve. Later on, he does sort of reveal why he did it, but I don't see why he wouldn't state his reason at the time of voting.

This is very interesting. I assume that bler144 had voted for Krypsyn for a reason, though I know that bler144 had some wrong ideas at the beginning of the game. Now, he switches off to a no-lynch, which, even in RL Mafia, is pretty much useless. Strange behaviour.
Then, in post #173, he says
Now that is a real non-reason. The only reason you are voting for Krypsyn is because he is voting for himself? What on earth are you thinking? Or maybe I'm over reacting and a smiley face at the end of the line would have conveyed the proper emotion.
bler144, why are you voting like this?

#175, we have the first person asking why Krypsyn switched his vote.

#178, 179, 180, we have more people asking why Krypsyn switched his vote.

Here we have Sage guessing at Krypsyn's reasoning. I actually don't see why this is a reason to vote him, though, again, my inexperience may be counting against me.

Apparently Sage guessed right! So Krypsyn himself admits to not being involved, and is suspicious of anyone who says otherwise.
Myself, I would say that Krypsyn is definitely one of the more involved players in the game, though the vast majority of his posts are YouTube clips. Though his stated reason is right in front of me, I still see his reasoning. This is something that I don't like and I'll be keeping a closer eye on Krypsyn from now on.

Now we move on to other, less well-known, characters. bler144 seems to be claiming...something. In post 190, Sage thinks he's claiming neutral or survivor role, which would seem to make sense with his post. I would assume he's not just pulling random junk out of the air for amusement's sake, though that is totally possible.

Yogsloth has backed off trentonlf (thankfully), and has now noticed Bookwyrm's bizarre actions. I kind of wondered when Bookwyrm stuck his vote on Krypsyn in the RVS, but it didn't bother me much. It seems to have bothered yogsloth a lot more.
However, I don't buy his reasoning that Bookwyrm put it there just so he could take it off and get some distance. His later arguments are much stronger, from my point of view.

This is the best reason that yogsloth brings up.

This is absolutely ridiculous. So because Krypsyn flipped votes around for no reason in the Space game, then Bookwyrm flipping votes around in the Gallows game must be scum.
There is absolutely no logic here. You cannot draw lines between two totally different players and expect results. Now, if 90% of scum flipped votes around for no reason, then I would understand. However, then we would also have a problem with Krypsyn, and maybe with bler144 as well. So, yogsloth, you have found 1 half-decent reason in 3 tries.

Bler144, this is no good. Anyone can say that they "legitimately have no idea" what the other factions are. I "legitimately have no idea" who the heck I'm trying to lynch, or even how many people I'm trying to lynch. I also assumed this was just town and scum.
No, if you are town, you need to show that you are town, do some legit analysis, and quit talking about your love child. If you are not town, then you are going to have a problem winning, since you have claimed so soon.
Sorry dude, those are the facts.


Alright, there're some more thoughts. I'll come up to the current posts this afternoon or evening.

By the way, how do you bold something?

Agree 100% with JMich. That is why I will always find anyone who wants to discuss role or PM information on day one scummy, there is no need that early to do it.


@bler our friend that left town was a he, but it sounds like you didn't really like him at all and are concerned he might come back?

Spit. Forgot to proof read.
Waiting...waiting...waiting...

This should read, "Though his stated reason is right in front of me, I still DON'T see his reasoning.

To the left of the text when when you do a reply is an I, a B, a U with an underline, and a symbol of a chain piece. Select whatever portion of the text you are typing and the corresponding letter or symbol to either (I) italicizes (B) bold or U underline. The chain symbol is to create a link.

"Recently there was minor drama involving one long-time resident of town insulting everyone around, saying he can't put up with local bullies anymore and moving out to some unkown location."

@trenton - When I read that again last night before responding to your post, to me it seemed like a hint from Vitek about what the third faction might be. Otherwise it seems to me a bit oddly out of place as a narrative point. And as someone who loves the town, and my fellow townies, I would certainly both fall into that "everyone." Whether or not I empathize with the outcast, they strike me more as a threat than somebody out to save the town.

As for the gender, people say 'he' unreliably. In the mystery game one of the hints about the villain was "He still has his jaw" - which I ran with on the off-chance it was a slip, but the villain turned out to be female.

@agentcarr - you may disagree with my analysis, but "legit" is just your own value judgment. While many people have laid out excellent theories, much of this is still just grasping at straws. The most rational reasoning this early in the game is still built on a foundation that is shaky at best.

At least two of us are acting oddly, certainly, but why or what my particular behavior portents I'd wager you have no basis to fathom yet. And I prefer acting oddly to the HBP finger wagging others have engaged in, whether legitimately or just to provide themselves with cover.

So you are thinking a disgruntled former townie has come back as a Vigilante or similar role to wreak vengeance on the bullies who wronged them. Would that automatically make them a third faction though? If they were a serial killer, or someone who had an action every night I could see a third faction. But, if they are a Vigilante they probably have limited shots and are still just a townie that is not happy with the way things are. But if they have returned and are a threat to town then I will do all I can to stop them.

I also see your point of the gender question, the default for most people is to say "he" in reference to anyone. I try and take it at face value, but there are times that a "he" is really a "she".

@Sage, can you actually see why Krypsyn switched to CSPVG for all of ten minutes?

This is a nice admission of what I see in the game, though I actually enjoy the 'obfuscatoriness' (I'm fairly sure that's not a word).

It's probably about fifty-fifty chance that one of the scum have slipped, but I don't want to work out the math of slips/players/other stuff. I do find it interesting that you pull out "29%" exactly. I know about how 87.24% of all statistics are made up on the spot, but does this have some bearing on number of players, or what? The way you write it, it sounds like something calculated.

OK. What is happening here? I actually can't tell if bler is voting tongue-in-cheek, or if he's got some reason, or if he is trying a Bookwyrm-esque ploy.
I would say that we do have some serious votes, like the ones on Bookwyrm and yogsloth.

This is the first I've heard of more than two factions in another game. At least this time most of us seem to feel a little unsure as to the involved factions.

Wha...Who...Why...What is this? Trentonlf didn't even ask you those questions, and how much do you know about this dude who left? I have no clue what you're talking about. Please, quit spitting out junk, or we're going to have to lynch to keep ourselves sane.


And...BAM! We're back to discussing role-talk and talking about PM discussion. I don't even want to think about it, so I'm going to skip it. Which brings me up to current postings.
Let's see what happens next.

The only point to Day 1 is to lynch someone. Unless town wants to start alluding to, paraphrasing, or outright quoting their PMs, town has no information to discuss yet.

I had reasons, they were just unstated.

I said that she correctly guessed at a 'large part' of why I voted for RWarehall.

yogsloth does have a problem with me.

The Sun was in my eyes!

J.J. Abrams' over use of lens flare is as well documented as it is distracting.

:)