And this is where you are wrong. This is what everyone was trying to explain to you. Post 37 was way before the new roles were handed out. Even post 40 was before the new distribution of roles. The new roles were handed out shortly before post 43, where Joe announces the re-set. So probably between post 42 and 43.

How does explaining that you base your "suspicion" on a false assumption make anyone scum? ZFR, me, Pooka and yogsloth just point out that you are wrong. But that doesn't make us scum. It just is the truth.


And you still didn't answer Pooka's question what you would have done. Or the question how answering the question 'what happened' in a previous game (i.e. before the re-distribution of roles) makes me scum in this game.

I had just anwered to Joe and it was past 3AM...I fell asleep and I just got to my pc now...people also have a life and need to sleep, You and ZFR, scum or not, need to drop this "you haven't answered" thing. I'm answering to everything.
You have made all the discourse about your post, which is completely irrelevant. The more you two go on the more I see this as a scum strategy and if you are town this is going to end bad.

What would have I done? I said I didn't see the need to make a post saying you WERE scum, and as the game was gonna be reset we could have just moved on. Why would I have had to do anything? No one else made posts declaring their previous roles. Only you. It's not so important, you are making big issues of distortions of everything I say to lynch me as a compact duo, what should I think?

Pooka 111
What you need to do now is:
- Answer my question about what you would have done as Lift
Nothing, I would have done nothing, like everyone else but him.

- Find and quote Post 3.
there you go
ZFR 93
"Also: How does me misspelling your name means that I'm scum?"
I have never said that, completely made up.

To be polite? To answer the question 'what the hell happened?'. You see, me being scum and blundering was the reason for the reboot. And my role was the reason for the blunder. So it was relevant for understanding what happened.

Also: you are still trying to construct an intent that can't have been there. You are suspecting me now, in this game, for an explanation I gave in the previous game. That doesn't make any sense at all.

But you implied it. In Post 57 you accuse ZFR of intentionally misspelling your name (even though unintentional misspellings are quite common) and you construct a nefarious intent behind that misspelling. And you use this assumed intent as justification for your vote. ... I.e. as accusation that ZFR is scum.

Because if you don't mean with your vote that you think ZFR is scum, then why do you vote? Saying on the one hand 'this is reason enough to vote' and on the other hand 'I never said that this is reason enough to think you're scum' is very strange indeed. Because that would mean that you vote just to be seen voting and not because you think ZFR is scum.

Again: your given reasons for that vote are
1 misspelling your name
2 misrepresenting what you wrote ... which ZFR didn't do, by the way.

ZFR just pointed out that you're wrong. That you are, as was explained quite often by now, using a statement from before the reset to justify your "suspicion" after the reset. But pointing out that you are basing your suspicion of a faulty assumption is not scummy. Why do you react so strongly to being corrected? Do you think yourself infallible? Does it annoy you to be shown to have erred?


If you are Town, you should really try to understand the error in your thinking and not play a game of you against everyone else. But if you're scum, please continue. In that case your behaviour is justified because it actually IS you (plus one buddy) against everyone else.

Thanks. I see where you're coming from with that claim. Still, that doesn't change too much, but it clears up some confusion.
Just one post before his, there's a JoeSapphire votecount showing that you voted ZFR. Consequently, I don't blame ZFR for interpreting your vote and the way you go about it as an implied "you're scum."

And earlier you accused him of doing some weird "strategy" that relies on deliberately misspelling your name. In most cases, the people who'd invoke a strategy to shade you based on something like this and deliberately is scum. So I don't fault him for reading between the lines and coming to the conclusion "so you're implying I'm scum."

Again, I think it's all down to miscommunication.

I was actually planning to reveal my role in the transition between the two games, all of it, way before I received my new roles. In that time between the previous game and this one, the game was SUSPENDED. There's no reason for Town to advance their goal or for Mafia to plant their devious seeds of doubts, because nobody knew what the new game would be like, or if they were gonna have the same roles or alignment in the first place.

If I'm scum, and then the game got suspended, and I claim I'm scum. Does that mean I'm planting something for next game? No. But even if I was stupid enough to plant a scum strategy...

If I reroll Mafia in the new game: It doesn't matter, it wasn't said in the context of the game.
If I reroll Town in the new game: It doesn't matter, it wasn't said in the context of the game.

Context matters here. When Lift posted, there was no game. He wasn't Lifthrasil the Mafia player, he was just Lifthrasil the forum poster.

Ah, but "like everyone else but him" ignores that Lift is special in this situation. Why did the game reboot in the first place? It's because Lift started the game with a bombshell, ultimately ruining it. So he felt it was his responsibility to come clean and explain what happened to the rest of us. He didn't mean to use it as a devious long-term scum plan, but as a way of saying "I fucked up and I'm sorry."

And instead of saying "it's alright, it's just a silly Mafia game," now we're using it as a talking point in this new Mafia game and calling people Town or Mafia based on reactions. Funny how that works.

To be polite?
To answer the question 'what the hell happened?'. You see, me being scum and blundering was the reason for the reboot. And my role was the reason for the blunder. So it was relevant for understanding what happened.

All I have said tis that your beheaviour was unique, chaotic and suspicious. There's only 9 of us, and someone has to be scum. You are the only player that was having a conspicuos beheavior at that point. If you had been sent a PM telling you that you had been re-rolled as scum for a second time, it made sense that you would post your previous role saying that you WERE scum to imply that this condition had changed. This doesn't make you scum. but at that point you were the pnly player with a bizarre activity and a possible scum strategy. Moving the waters around you also woke up the ZFR sea monster from the waters, that came in your support like a paladin voting for me and making up all sort of things, and joining you in obsessing me and everyone else with the story about your post and the mispelled name he did. These things don't make you two scum, you going on and on about them is something suspicious and it looks like scum strategy.
You are making me repeat the same things dozens of times. Everytime you pretent I am not answering or changing the meaning of my words. If you insist, I'll be quite sure you are in fact scum.

Also: you are still trying to construct an intent that can't have been there. You are suspecting me now, in this game, for an explanation I gave in the previous game. That doesn't make any sense at all.

The games are in the same thread, I have said already many times that you could have been using the I WAS scum declation to imply that you are not now as roles have been re-rolled. You have made a similiar accusation to me, that I have been rerolled as scum. Why in your case it makes sense and it should be treated as the samme game? Also, beheaviour of players in previous games can be considered and evaluated.
If a previous game doesn't matter, why you and ZFR keep going over and over about that?



But you implied it. In Post 57 you accuse ZFR of intentionally misspelling your name (even though unintentional misspellings are quite common) and you construct a nefarious intent behind that misspelling. And you use this assumed intent as justification for your vote. ... I.e. as accusation that ZFR is scum.

I already said that ZFR had made a previous fake vote, and then he made my vote changing my name, letting me confused at his intent?
Mocking me altering my name? Making people confused about the intent of the vote, another joke or real?
Also, voting me for saying that all your chaotic acting was suspicious?
It seems like you have decided in a chat to insist about the same points to draw attention on me, not differently from Cadaver in the previous game - and I was right there too. It doesn't mean I must be right, but suspecting you doesn't make me scum.


Because if you don't mean with your vote that you think ZFR is scum, then why do you vote?

There's 9 of us, I've made my move according to my suspect based on your strategy and posts.
I might reconsider my vote. Why don't you ask ZFR why he is voting me or anyone else why are they voting? Why are you two so obsessed with me? Why don't you ask ZFR why he votes for me and implies I'm scum?
MAYBE because you both are scum.
Why don't you quesiton instead, the votes yogsloth - Microfish_1, and 1 - ettac orrazib si eman ym - Bookwyrm627?




- Saying on the one hand 'this is reason enough to vote' and on the other hand 'I never said that this is reason enough to think you're scum' is very strange indeed.
Saying I have a suspect and saying I'm sure are two different things. How can be ZFR be SURE I am scum?

- Because that would mean that you vote just to be seen voting and not because you think ZFR is scum.
Again, there's 9 of us, in the same way ZFR, probably scum, and you, probably scum, are voting for me. How can you be SURE? Question is absurd. You only know that for sure when roles are revealed.

Again: your given reasons for that vote are
1 misspelling your name
2 misrepresenting what you wrote ... which ZFR didn't do, by the way.

Again no, you are making this up. It's precicily your obsession with me and the same things, and your joined votes that are strenghtening my suspects around you. Also, you are compact in covering each other lies and misrepresentations.





- ZFR just pointed out that you're wrong. That you are, as was explained quite often by now, using a statement from before the reset to justify your "suspicion" after the reset. But pointing out that you are basing your suspicion of a faulty assumption is not scummy. Why do you react so strongly to being corrected? Do you think yourself infallible? Does it annoy you to be shown to have erred?

I could say the same about you. You said I might be scum after the reroll and voting for me with ZFR. You keep going on with this thing about your statement and the vote with the wrong name to distract everybody and attack me.
I have answered multiple times to everything. I am over with this now, your beheavious is leaving me very little doubt at this point. I don't think I am infallible, why do you and ZFR should be infallible though?
ZFR is making up stuff as I have shown till getting sick. I am not going to let you derail everything with this post from the other game and vote with the wrong name things. Those were things that could have been easily explained, the joined aggressive beheaviour, with lies and personal attacks not.


- If you are Town, you should really try to understand the error in your thinking and not play a game of you against everyone else. But if you're scum, please continue. In that case your behaviour is justified because it actually IS you (plus one buddy) against everyone else.


I could say the same to you. I am playing for town, and the more you and ZFR go on and on obsessively repeating the same accusations and lies, you don't look good.
For now,

Unvote ZFR

But that's the entire point: THE ROLES HAD NOT BEEN RE-ROLLED AT THAT POINT YET!

That's the difference between us. My post, that you see as suspicious, was BEFORE the re-roll. Your suspicious behaviour started AFTER the re-roll. You see the difference? Your behaviour of constructing nonsensical accusations CAN have been influenced by your current role, because after the re-roll you knew your current role. My behaviour before the re-roll can NOT have been influenced by my current role, because I had no way of knowing what it would be at that point.


I give up. If you really can't grasp the temporal impossibility of your assumption, explaining it again and again won't help either.

Sheesh. This. Is. You. Exact. Post.

What is Lift making up? Your post and your reasons are there for all to see.

Ok, this is really it. I tried to listen to Pooka and make things peaceful but you won't stop playing your weird, red-flagging game going on and on about the same things that I told you was suspect activity in my eyes, now you are making me 99% sure.
The fact that your post was before the new game had officially started does not mean that you hadn't received a PM with the new role already.
But I have said repeatedly to nausea that it's not that that makes me suspect of you, is your being obsessive about these points, which might have been cleared already.
I have just said that those things don't make you scum, and you keep lying saying that I have said the opposite, like I didn't just answered you saying that no, that's not the point.
There is nothing I can say because you must have taken accords privately to go on with this.
I have said that your post does not make you scum and now you make another post saying that I have said it.
I said ok, so if the other game does not matter why do you keep talking about it and you just can't stop being obsessive with the same lines. I had even retired my vote hoping that Pooka was right and we could be reasonable but no. You are a broken record.
At this point your strategy is evident to me. You have picked up two distorted things I have mentioned and it doesn't matter how many times I will say that they don't matter and I don't think you are scum because of them, you have decided to repeat otherwise. You answer like you don't even read my replies. You make me almost impossible to concentrate on anything else in the game.


" I give up. If you really can't grasp the temporal impossibility of your assumption, explaining it again and again won't help either."

Again, the fact that you posted later does not mean that you haven't had a PM with your new role. But it does not matter. What is suspect is you keep saying that I say that you are scum for that. I just said that I don't think that. I think what is most scummy of you is how you keep going on these old points, and your aggressive attacks in alligiance with ZFR.



Pooka: "I was actually planning to reveal my role in the transition between the two games, all of it, way before I received my new roles. In that time between the previous game and this one, the game was SUSPENDED. "

Ok, I didn't think I'd do it, I'd rather wait for the end, but it doesn't really matter. It's just something Lift is holding on to, and it's hard for me to believe he's doing it in good faith after the last post. He's like a brocken record and won't stop talking about the old game, and how I think he is scum because he talked aobut the old game. Even if I say multiple times that no, I don't think he must be scum for that, he jsut won't stop.

"There's no reason for Town to advance their goal or for Mafia to plant their devious seeds of doubts, because nobody knew what the new game would be like, or if they were gonna have the same roles or alignment in the first place."
well, I have explained several times that to me saying I WAS SCUM serves at hinting I AM NOT NOW, and that does not make anyone scum, but there is a strategic reason to it. Just because the game had not restarted does not mean that Lift didn't have a PM with the new role anyway. I would have avoided talking about it, personally, but it's ok and solved with me. It's Lift that won't stop going on about it forever.


"Context matters here. When Lift posted, there was no game. He wasn't Lifthrasil the Mafia player, he was just Lifthrasil the forum poster."
Ok, I accept that, now will someone explain that to Lift, because he keeps saying the same stuff forever, and the more he does the more I think it's weird.

Yes, I give up too. dogmaus keeps going "you're making stuff up!" despite quoting exact posts where she wrote it. It's impossible to argue with this.

Vote stays. Could be a newbie Townie but could also very well be a newbie scum caught in an unfamiliar situation.

dogmaus, if you're Town just one last thing: there are probably 2 scum only in this game, so when *four* people are correcting, at least 2 of them are not scum with an agenda. So maybe instead of lashing out "you're making stuff up" you think about the reason they're correcting you.

I have said many times that it's not what you keep repeating the reason that I suspect of you, those points could have been easily solved discussing them as Pooka says. The problem is how obsessive you are aobut them, how you misrepresent my words and ignore my real words. You keep saying "you said it! you said it", did your little brother from the kindergarten hack your account?

So, you are telling me that you are voting for me despite not being sure if I am town.
Lift, how do you feel about it? Why it's cool when you two do it?

Easy. Town can never be 100% sure. ZFR sees you as scummy, so he votes you. Same as you did. You saw him as scummy and voted him. That wasn't what I criticized about you. What I criticized was, that you afterwards claimed to have never said that you saw ZFR as scummy due to his misspelling.

You know. Seeing someone as scummy doesn't mean that one is 100% convinced that they are scum. It means that one sees a higher chance of the scummy player being scum than others. And for me a vote is a clear expression of seeing someone as scummy. So your vote, justified in part by ZFR's misspelling, is a clear statement by you "I see ZFR as scummy". Again this is totally OK, if you can explain how misspelling would possibly benefit scum. What is not OK is, that instead of explaining you denied ever having used the misspelling as sign of scumminess.

The confusion, that you accuse ZFR of wanting to create with his misspelling, would never have happened without your reaction to it. For everyone else a misspelled vote would just have been that: a misspelled vote. Happens. Nothing confusing about it. So the one creating the confusion is you, not ZFR.

You're making stuff up.

No. I stand behind every word I wrote. When I say "you said it!" it's because... I don't know... you frickin said it! I even quote your exact post with your words.

If dogmaus is Town, then there is indeed something fishy about Pooka that caught my eye:


What policy lynch? Who's talking about policy lynch?

Pooka does have good scum equity with both Town!dogmaus and Scum!dogmaus. I can totally see scum!Pooka acting the mediator in a T vs T argument. I can also see him, like catte said, being torn between bussing a buddy and salvaging the situation.

If it's Pooka, then aside dogmaus, Micro and GR make good Pooka-scumbuddies.


catte on the other hand has good poor scum equity with both Town!dogmaus and Scum!dogmaus

If dogmaus is scum, then scum!catte would be pushing to bus or perhaps trying to save his buddy. If dogmaus is Town, then catte's reaction strikes me as Townish. He's neither sitting back lurking enjoying the show nor is he actively trying to add fuel to the fire.

I could be wrong of course.

At this stage I'm:
Not voting yogs and Books, town lean on catte, neutral on everyone else except Pooka and dogmaus.