This is all very charitable and all, but you voted for me originally at a point where no lynch wasn't on the table, so a gambit to run a wagon on me was a good play.

Now that it's moving towards no-lynch, there was no need for you to continue that gambit. So you, very graciously no less, step back down. You also snuggle up to JMich on how you wouldn't normally agree with No Lynch, but just maybe this time it's a grand idea. Maybe I'm being uncharitable, but that strikes me as a complete put-on. I like the "Damn!" in particular.

No lynch is still a very good deal for scum. There's no getting around that. The only question is whether town can increase its odds by picking a lynch target that is highly likely to flip. With the deadline not moving, and now a chunk more info on the table that I think helps scum more than town, I'm going to

Vote Lift

So, you claim cop. Why not go a step further and reveal whom you investigated and what were the results? If your claim is true, you already did what I wanted to avoid: present our cop as a target to scum. So the damage is done and you might as well share everything you found out. Are there some you 'cleared' as town (which then of course hinges on you being town and not 'naive' yourself etc.) Did you find some scum already?

What else can we do with the remaining time? I, unfortunately, have nothing else to share about the night, since nothing (apart from the goblin fighting) happened to me. So if someone visited me today, he stayed hidden. But since most night actions seem to leave something noticeable, I rather suspect that no one came visiting me.

Perhaps one or both of them have roles of their own. Perhaps they don't. The data on the table suggests there are probably 3 cops on the table. Say I'm vanilla or role cop and claim that neither have roles then scum can presumably do math and figure out who else does. If I claim one is vanilla and the other isn't, and the vanilla happens to be scum, then voila, another target.

Any permutation here is bad. Maybe I'm a stats cop and really just know jack shit.

Again, I'm not inclined to make it clear how dangerous I am in the future.
Again, short of a full claim, anything I could say now about them hurts town more than it helps.

At the very least, if I had something that 'proved' scumminess on either of them right now I would have absolutely shared it sooner.

TLDR: I cannot prove either is town at this point in time. Dedo outing me has made me a target yes, but better to WIFOM how big a target I should be is at this point the safer play. Me full claiming plus a no lynch is a recipe for disaster.

If I'm NKed tonight, does town lose something? I think I'll leave that for scum to guess.

Before I subject you to my Text of Doom: in one of my spot checks last night, someone made a relatively accurate observation on my play for Day 3. I did mostly coast Tuesday while I was working on a coding bug at work. Then I was gone Tuesday night and on through nearly all of Wednesday. I'm now working on catching up. In an effort to not miss anything, I'm going to start back at the beginning of Day 3.

Please forgive me, as things seem to have moved quite far along while I wasn't paying close attention. I'll post my thoughts as I get a chance, instead of trying to save up for a Big Bang. Therefore, some of these comments might already be irrelevant by the time you can read them (depending on what is said later that I haven't read yet).

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-I seem to recall someone else sort of bringing up Adalia wagon analysis early on Day 1, but I don't remember who. I don't think Hijack was the first to mention it, though he did point out it was mostly ignored.
-"Why not NK wyrm?" Apparently I either haven't been quiet enough (lurking), I haven't been threatening/important enough to warrant it, or (from Not-Me Point Of View) I'm scum.
-Why not NK dedo? Same reasons as me. Except it would be Not-Dedo POV.
-"Why Flub?" Best guess, he was lurking enough that it didn't seem like town would get much from it. Dedo has some good commentary on this question in Post 635.

The story rings true, with all the cross-verification between you and Trent. I can't shake the idea that you might be scum with a careful plot, but I'm currently tentatively believing you are town since Trent flipped town and you led in delivering most of the details.

Post 646: Dedo agrees with Bler about this assumption.

-646: Dedo wants to protect the protector.
-648: So does Lift.

-5-4 puts us at LyLo if the 4 are the same faction, while 5-3-1 only puts us at LyLo if the 1 is neutral survivor (doesn't care who wins as long as player is alive).
-Third party scum would mean we aren't quite at LyLo, since if mafia kill the 3rd party scum tonight, then they didn't kill a townie, while if they kill a townie, then presumably they aren't in control because of that 3rd party scum and so we get another day. 5-3-1 does mean we need to be lynching the 3 either today or tomorrow, or they might be able to equalize the numbers over night.

Doesn't this logic also hold true for the bag searching and mind reading? Which information/roles are we willing to risk scum laying hands on? Anyone that can be identified with relative certainty is one less person that could be some other desirable role. Quad covers some of this in 656.

Though if we don't share anything until mass claim, we risk losing whole swathes of info to a lucky NK.
-669: Bler goes into this -> town is probably best served by all or nothing for info sharing.

-669: Bler advocates lynching Lift. He did his vote/unvote for Lift in previous posts.

-673: Dedo pushes for reveals on unclaimed investigations.

-678: Leonard apparently got nothing when searching Lift's posts

-Flub might have blocked one NK, while the protective role blocked another kill. There may be more ways of stopping a kill out there, as well. Flub managing to block kills on both nights seems to be the most unlikely of the scenarios you proposed; he'd have to be down right amazing at either luck or at predicting who would make a kill, since he almost certainly didn't have access to non-public investigation information. No offense Flub, maybe you were that lucky, but if you could predict the kills I'd think you'd save yourself.

-683: Leonard seems pretty sure Flub did both of the claimed role blocks.

-Note: It was around here that I stopped watching the thread on Tuesday. There might be a few posts overlap, but most everything from this point on is going to be new to me.

-684: Lift declares suspicion of Bler, votes. I tend to agree with Bler, in that I think town has several power roles left; I think Lift overreacted in thinking Bler said multiple town roles visited Bler. If Bler is town, then scum are unlikely to spend more than one investigation on him (and they'll use whichever is most likely to tell them what they want to know). Looks like Bler basically says this in 686.

Wait, what? I...I don't see how you came to that conclusion at all. I really don't see how Bler excludes all of his visits being town; he excludes that all of his visits were scum. He specifically says that at least 1 visit (or more), possibly all 3, were made by townies.

-689: Leonard is pinging my scum-dar pretty seriously at this point.

-690: Bler makes some decent points. However, scum might try to defend a lynch of a townie, precisely so they can later say "I was against killing that townie"; no credit for this defense.

I think Dedo already dropped that his target went somewhere, and therefore has some kind of night action.

-696: JMich is very concerned about Lift and Dedo, votes Lift. I was wondering if I was going to be in the minority for thinking Bler is much more convincing than Lift has been; I guess not.

-698: Leonard asking if protector should out himself.
-699: Bler points out that protector doesn't necessarily need to claim; second protected could do it.
-700: Leonard points suspicion at Dedo.

Note: Maybe Dedo and Lift are a scum team. Possible, but I tend to disagree right now.

-701: Lift makes an interesting observation about Bler calling Lift a townie. On further review though, I don't think this holds up. While he talked about Lift being unable to be protected again as a townie, Bler didn't go into the case where if Lift is scum then Lift needs to be lynched regardless. We've already been through Bler being unfamiliar with whether a doctor can only protect someone once.

Note to self: I've gotten to 701. I need to get some more work done before I come back to this.

Hold it a sec Lifthrasil, bler was not the one to bring the cop (himself) to light, it was dedo. He was the one who claimed tracking bler to CSPVG. You cannot blame bler for this, in fact is is odd that you do I would have thought it was obvious that it was dedo.

The presence in my mind was painful, or so I assume because my flavor indicates I was in pain.

I am not so sure about this whole no lynch thing today. Day 2 could have been better, but tonight there's the risk of losing yet another investigative role if we proceed with no lynch. Alternatively we could lose 2 investigative roles if Lift happens to be one of them, but for some reason I highly doubt that.

Interesting find. It seems this game makes excessive use of flavor, which in spite of what many may say I do actually think it's a better setup since it's no longer just a numbers game.

From that I would find it safe to conclude we likely had the same visitor. For whatever that's worth.

I misunderstood his reason for this when he first posted it. I did not understand why you would want to prove that at least one visit was from town. Now I understand it was because lift was accusing him of knowing that all the visits were town by being scum. So bler was pointing out how you wouldn't have to be scum to know that.

I have been doing a lot of drawing lately, which apparently uses the right side of the brain. The left side is the one used for logic and reasoning. That's my excuse :D

Yes, because if scum do have those kind of roles I think we are lost anyway.

I have only heard of role cops and alignment cops, so I would think it was one of them.
And haven't I already proved I have no skills at re-reading? Rrrrgh...
JMich pointed out it was likely over in post 483, also 492.
Also, he he he, this post seems really ironic.
Something else I noticed, at the beginning of this post, you seem to believe all claims are true now, or am I wrong there?
And then dedo claims and the talk centers on him and trentonlf only. I guess saying we came to the conclusion was a little in accurate, but at least it wasn't just me that thought it.

It was mainly you (and partly lift) that got trentonlf lynched. I do not find the arguments you have been making very good. It also does not really feel like you are looking for scum, besides me I don't know who you suspect. You also seem to be very close to lifthrasil, who I find suspicious. For his part in trentonlf's death, and for his hounding of bler.

I can't tell you whether or not you should find dedo's arguments very good (though on the whole I have only minor quibbles with him), but I will say that lift/dedo being close doesn't have to be them buddying up to each other. I've tended to read it as Lift finding dedo's arguments convenient for his own purposes.

Was dedo calling (in bold) for anyone protected to clam up a gambit to cover for Lift? Maybe, but also quite viably a pro-town opinion, whether or not I agree it's the best play I see the argument. The fact that Lift then follows up is arguably too obvious if they're on the same team, though WIFOM of course.

And Dedo has, at least to a moderate extent, also backed my own play today, at least until he outed me. ;)

I'm not saying that action buys him "townie points" just that I think it's risky to assume he's teaming with either "side" if one assumes Lift and I are indeed on opposite sides.

...Sorry, I was entirely distracted by watching the GOG stream and discovering that there were, in fact, groups of adventurers less competent than ourselves. :D

...Actually, that "Damn!" is interesting to me as well, though it may be the fact that my breadcrumbing senses have now developed in such a way that they have taken on sentience of their own and I am now quite, quite mad. :P

Nothing currently to say about Bler's search of me, though I might have a bit to add after CSPVG has a chance to answer.

Leonard: Well, now you know of one more: Flavour Cop gives some information on that character, while there's also the Name Cop which gives the player's character name. They're not quite as powerful, admittedly, though I imagine when in use their flavour would be at least somewhat suited to them.

Could be useful if scum happy to be named ...damn, I had a joke for this.

Anyway, it occurs to me there's one thing I can tell you that doesn't reveal anything about QA/CSP/the field. Why did I choose my actions?

On D1 I was inclined to use my night action on someone entirely different, but Adalia's finger-pointing made my primary targets too hot to risk if there was a watcher. But let's just say the game would have been verrrry different had Adalia not thrown mud around. Which I'll come back to in post-game comments.

And keep in mind at this point I wouldn't have known there were so many roles in play, so risking outing myself to a watcher seemed a significant one. Trying to pluck someone at random just because they were on/off Adalia's wagon was too low-value.

So I opted for CSP's wagon, which at least at its prime was myself, flub, and QA, akin to the value of looking at JMich's D1 wagon last game. Flub was also too risky to visit and I tended to think he was town anyway (which I believe a review of my D1 comments will support), and had CSP been visited N1 several people might have intuited it was me as the most ardent voice on his wagon. My assumption being that the way the D1 vote went, either QA was scum, or CSP probably was.

Without revealing what type of cop I am, let's just say my hope was that I'd get something on QA that would also tell me something about CSP. Considering I visited CSP N2, one might perhaps conclude from that it was at least not definitive. I briefly toyed with investigating Leonard, but that was too low-value a play and wrote it off.

So the two choices were Lift (gut), or play out the theory that 1 of CSP or QA were probably scum. I went with the latter, because again, if I got lucky it might tell me something about two people.

What's piggy-backing? I'm assuming it's not the same stuff you do with girls to get them close to you.

@CSPVG: Classes have started and girls need my attention as well. ;D

Uhm, really? Oh my... Uhm... Do you find your arguments very good? Do you feel you are looking for scum? If you answer with yes to any of these questions I will seriously reconsider what am I doing with my life.

Show me where I got Trent lynched by providing untrue information. Show where you didn't join that wagon. Here? On, no, sorry. That is where you say that you are convinced we should lynch him.

You not knowing who I suspect besides you means I'm not looking for scum? Nice. I love that argument.


Ah, nice! I was about to ask that. Thanks for being pro-active :)

Repeating the thoughts / comments of others as your own mostly.


Damn, that Lazarus plugin is so strong! I actually close the tab by accident and didn't lose anything!

To be fair, I should probably amend "would have been verrrry different" to "could have been verrrry different." It definitely changed my plan, but it's possible it could have changed later.