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General discussionGOG Forum Mafia # 29 - The Deep Smelly Dungeon(1222 posts)(1222 posts)
(1222 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 19, 2015
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Leonard03: I think I'm gonna do a re-read of dedo.
Yeah, you do that. I will welcome some actual contribution.

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bler144: Unless you're inclined to agree with JMich that we should just turtle and wait for D4.
I thought you were opposed to that idea but not entirely against mass claims.

By the way, you guys are somewhat correct. Depending on numbers keeping the protector may or may not be of that great impact.

I'm not a fan of the idea of relying on someone who felt the protection since that may be a scumbag who just keeps quiet. If we're heading that way we can just let the protector claim and say whether or not he covered Lift on N1. Some of you seem to believe I'm overestimating the protector so I guess we can just risk them and get some supportive or damning information on the matter.

Anyway, I heard bler, but I would like the opinion of others as well. Any good reason for me to keep quiet?
Posted August 19, 2015
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dedoporno: I thought you were opposed to that idea but not entirely against mass claims.
That's a fair assessment of my individual opinion, yes. I'd rather claim or lynch Lift than just sit tight. But if we are sitting tight I don't think we should claim.

Regardless of what I may want, it's important to consider the broader base. For example, even if I tend to favor claiming, if you specify your action and half the group talks and half sits quiet that potentially does more harm than good.

I mean, I know that's crazy - hard to imagine half of this group stays quiet, right? ;)

But who knows, maybe you starting to talk would give them a push to chime in. The deadline makes that a risk, however.
Posted August 19, 2015
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bler144: So why no lynch yesterday but not today?
I think there's something wrong with this sentence.

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bler144: I think No lynch was a viable play yesterday because of having 2 roles on the table already plus the gambit presented in having Trent as a guardian plus some investigative power still in play.
LAL. Trent denied having any knowledge of night actions. He then retraced his steps, almost like someone caught in a lie.

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bler144: Today I'd rather gamble on lynching Lift today than no lynch, but I'd say the odds are long either way. The question seems to be whether we want to go out fighting and hoping for the best or sit tight and gamble on salvation to fall into our laps.
If you are confident enough that Lift is scum, vote for him. If he isn't, we lost a night's worth of investigations. While I do think he is scum, I'm more confident dealing with investigations than risking a mislynch.
Posted August 20, 2015
We are still missing some of the claims from yesterday. I think one bag rooting has been claimed so there should be two more. If not we might have some liars.
[After scanning today] I can't seem to find anybody claiming their brain was scanned or their bags were rummaged through. Did I miss something? If not it means there are three people holding back, and I can't see why, they would, unless they are scum.
Another possibility is that the roles were x-shots. Since RWarehall wasn't though, it would be odd if the others were.

Also, is it just me or is Bookwyrm really posting less than usual?

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dedoporno: In addition, I visited someone last night and I have a read that provides some connections around. But I'm not sure if I'm supposed to share that. For starters I'll let my target to decide whether or not they want to come out and share what they did.
It doesn't seem like they're gonna, maybe you should share.

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dedoporno: Yeah, you do that. I will welcome some actual contribution.
Shots fired! I tried, but I just can't slog through a whole bunch of someones posts like that, too short an attention span. Lift had less than you.

I feel like it would be good for the person who was protected today to state the fact. Because it confirms that you do indeed notice when you are protected. This would help trying to determine whether to believe lifthrasil or not. I do not see how it can help scum too much since it doesn't really confirm or deny who the doctor is.
Posted August 20, 2015
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bler144: That's a fair assessment of my individual opinion, yes. I'd rather claim or lynch Lift than just sit tight. But if we are sitting tight I don't think we should claim.
So you are basically OK with taking the risk of me not saying anything and dying tonight, bringing whatever information I may have in the grave? I thought we value investigators more than protectors around here so isn't this a bit careless?
Posted August 20, 2015
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Leonard03: [After scanning today] I can't seem to find anybody claiming their brain was scanned or their bags were rummaged through. Did I miss something?
CSPVG claimed to have had his pack searched. Don't have the post number off hand, but can look for it if you'd like.
Posted August 20, 2015
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JMich: LAL. Trent denied having any knowledge of night actions. He then retraced his steps, almost like someone caught in a lie.
Or someone confused about what within a PM was meaningful vs. flavor. Of course, you couldn't have known that at the time. But sorting through a PM involving multiple actions today myself, I can easily see where he might have gotten lost on an action that was ambiguous.

Though of course some of that's hindsight. Not all, but some.

In any case, it's been teased to death enough and anyone who can do math has probably figured out that more likely than not that I was the recipient of Dedo's visit. I won't confirm it, and perhaps I "suspect" it more than I absolutely know that's what occurred, but it's hard to deny that him coming over for tea (metaphorically) is at least likely what we've both been dancing around.

Barring some new revelation I intend to vote Lift before the deadline, or if there's some consensus around making a wagon. But for now I'm keeping it holstered.
Posted August 20, 2015
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JMich: CSPVG claimed to have had his pack searched. Don't have the post number off hand, but can look for it if you'd like.
Correct. We are still one bag with stolen contents and one brain picked (if we are to believe the other brain reader was RW) short.
Posted August 20, 2015
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Leonard03: [After scanning today] I can't seem to find anybody claiming their brain was scanned or their bags were rummaged through. Did I miss something?
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JMich: CSPVG claimed to have had his pack searched. Don't have the post number off hand, but can look for it if you'd like.
Thanks, I went back to find it with adalia's script, it's post 625. Two things missing then.
Posted August 20, 2015
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dedoporno: So you are basically OK with taking the risk of me not saying anything and dying tonight, bringing whatever information I may have in the grave? I thought we value investigators more than protectors around here so isn't this a bit careless?
Heh, should have refreshed before I posted since we were talking about the same thing at the same time.

Say, hypothetically, you visited me. You would know if I went somewhere. If I went nowhere, that tells you something reasonably valuable in a game with few vanilla.

Say I did go somewhere - unless I went to visit myself, you then likely have a reasonable guess about actions N1 and N2. In that scenario, since I would know if you are scum or not, I couldn't risk revealing what I knew about the two people visited who may or may not still be alive.

I mean, I could reveal info about both without telling you which, but then if one of them is scum, scum have info on the other. It could get out of control quickly.

If there were one piece of info that exists that would at least clear a path in my mind, aside from being able to prove Lift was lying about the protection (which no one player could do) it would be really bleepin' helpful to know if Dedo is town.

So I agree with you- there's a big risk in keeping quiet, but once we start talking (as to some extent we're now doing) we may just helping scum make a target list without gaining enough info for town to be helpful. If we're going to share anything meaningful, I think everyone has to commit to it.

Maybe that's real, and maybe it's a bluff to bring everyone at the table. At this point only Dedo and I know, but I'll have to trust him, since there's no alternative.

Correct. We are still one bag with stolen contents and one brain picked
Scum will know I'm not scum, so ergo I'm probably telling the truth about 3 visits. No one has claimed any new visits. So at this point I guess it doesn't hurt to note for everyone that I had my travel Chess set taken, and my mind was "violated" in a "terrifying" fashion.

As for order of operations, if it matters, it was:
1) mind read
2) strange voice in the night
3) discover pillaged bag
Posted August 20, 2015
Hello everyone, I'm sorry for once again not having much to contribute. I had another busy day, so I haven't caught up with everything. I did, however, see that we have a deadline set, so I'm going to make reading through the thread my top priority tomorrow morning.
Posted August 20, 2015
Well, if no one claims counter to bler, and nobody was lying abou what happened to them yesterday I think that clears him. Since we are now one mind reader short, it seems clear that since RWarehall was a role cop, the mind scanning people are role cops. Since I can't see town having two role cops I guess the remaining one is scum. Since scum wouldn't investigate their own, bler is town, or possibly third party.
Posted August 20, 2015
Quick prod-dodge post. I've spent today shuttling someone around to various appointments, so I don't know what the latest status is. Short spot checks indicate that we might be looking at No Lynch, and that a Wild Deadline has appeared.

I'll try to make a point of catching up tomorrow, and I'll try to actually contribute tomorrow as well.
Posted August 20, 2015
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Leonard03: Well, if no one claims counter to bler, and nobody was lying abou what happened to them yesterday I think that clears him. Since we are now one mind reader short, it seems clear that since RWarehall was a role cop, the mind scanning people are role cops. Since I can't see town having two role cops I guess the remaining one is scum. Since scum wouldn't investigate their own, bler is town, or possibly third party.
As nice as it is to be cleared for a moment, I'd be careful in assuming either that mind reading automatically means role cop, or that each faction has 1 role cop if there are 2 and only 2. Either or both of those assumptions may be wrong, and personally I'm at least somewhat skeptical Yog would make the design quite that nicely symmetrical.

I'm not making decisions on which of the visits I received would be scum or town until I know more (if that ever comes). They might all be town, even if my hunch would be two town and 1 scum. Personally Yog has me a bit flummoxed and I've had several RL days to ponder the implications of my visits on top of the flips.

To the extent I see a pattern in the design it's "be careful of rushing to judgment," e.g. Trent's ability being out of place. Spoiler alert - his action really had no tell, and he wasn't a watcher.

So I'm afraid it's risky to assume the data "proves" I'm cleared, even if you individually want to make that assumption if push to comes to shove on voting. It might make you (or someone else) vote the "right way" on me but the "wrong way" on someone else who is town.

Unfortunately we'll have to judge each case on its merits when its in front of us - I don't think we're going to crack the code at least until we get a scum flip or two, if then.
Posted August 20, 2015
Sorry for disappearing yesterday, my headache worsened a lot and my only choice was try and go to sleep.

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Leonard03: Well, if no one claims counter to bler, and nobody was lying abou what happened to them yesterday I think that clears him. Since we are now one mind reader short, it seems clear that since RWarehall was a role cop, the mind scanning people are role cops. Since I can't see town having two role cops I guess the remaining one is scum. Since scum wouldn't investigate their own, bler is town, or possibly third party.
This is naive to say the least. There is no reason to automatically discard all of these being Town visits. There may not be, but you can't know that for sure.

I know for a fact at least one of these visits wasn't scum since bler is right about that - he heard my voice (AH HA!). The question is how do we know if ANY of his visits were scum?

He said his mind was violated in a terrifying fashion. This looks like the polar opposite of what flub said (something about it not being an unwelcome visit). We had at least 2 mind readers around and so far we had some information only on one of them - the gentle read. Given the fact RW was Town I believe it's safe to assume he wasn't the malevolent (if there is one) read. So let's see if we can get some info on the other one.

@HijacK, do you have a description of your brain read? So far we have a gentle friendly read and a mind f*ck (ba-dum-tsss!). Is yours consistent with these in any way?

And back to bler.

@bler, why did you hold back on sharing these? What was gained by waiting until now?


@Everyone, the calmness with the imminent deadline is a bit disturbing. Even with no lynch there is a fair possibility of information lost which can't be in any way good for us. What is the point of prolonging the game waiting for more investigations if we don't work with them?

With that being the case and me already being outed I believe I should share my own reads so bler at least doesn't have wiggling room Tomorrow if I happen to die Tonight. We can work with this Today, but I'm not sure we'll have enough time given the amount of participation of most people.

So, let's go.

Last night (N2) bler visited CSPVG. CSPVG already reported having his pack searched, so we now know that bler is the person who rummages people's bags (but doesn't steal stuff from them). Which in turn tells us that he visited QuadrAlien on N1 (based on QAs report).

@bler, the ball is in your court now :)
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Community
General discussionGOG Forum Mafia # 29 - The Deep Smelly Dungeon(1222 posts)(1222 posts)
(1222 posts)