Which posts of RW's indicate these things to you?

Every single post I've made commenting about judging people based on whether they were present at lynch was in direct response, including quotes, to one of RW's posts commenting about the same thing (except this post, now). You note this against me, but not against him. What is the difference?

Well, I've gone back over the end of Day 1 posts.

I think you (all of you) should go back and take a critical look at what happened. I suggest starting here, where Yogsloth noted 6.5 hours left; the claim happens shortly after that. It is up to you if you want to back track or move forward for your starting point.

Read through it first, see what you think. My observations are below, so you can read it before reading my analysis.

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Easy stuff first: Sage, Flub, JMich, and I are missing. Make of that what you will.

I read the posts, and I see several people openly working through the process and taking stands.

Yogsloth going after Dessimu isn't surprising at all. Dessimu claimed the most powerful town role, an obvious choice for scum at risk, and Yog was the only other lynch candidate at that point. He does point out problems with the claim, clearly stating his opinion.

Dessimu's behavior is even easier, looking from hindsight. He's the cop and trying not to get lynched. He already knows he's a dead man walking, and his choices are pretty clear.

Of the living players, Cristi comes out of it looking the best. She walks through the consequences of the claim, lynching versus not lynching, and makes her decision.

Trent makes his decision, and it goes against the obvious path. I can see town Trent making this decision. It is harder to see scum!Trent making the same play, simply because no one would even blink if he pulls away from killing a claimed PR (which has a high risk of drawing negative attention later). Of course, WIFOM says that voting the PR might therefore make a good play. Regardless, Trent draws his line.

Lift adds his input, with reasoning. He isn't going to help lynch the claim, and he still hates Yog's soft claiming shenanigans. Very near deadline, he also pushes Meda to hammer.

HSL agrees with Cristi, also putting his vote where his mouth is.

Meda kind of bounces around, agreeing with a few things, and finally hammers right before the end.

RW...wrings his hands. he posits a couple of possibilities and doesn't really do anything or take a stand. He manages to be the only person without a vote anywhere at all.


I don't like it. RW and Meda were already my favorites for scum, and I'm still right there after closely reviewing the end of Day 1.

RW- posts 517,497, points in 496.

in response to your second paragraph asking why you.

Post- 457 - Is not in response to anything directed at you. You are just giving what you think. Which I am completely fine with, what gets me to raise an eye is that you keep responding to things about RWs theory.

post 505- you post response to RW talking about his theory on status times. Your letting him get to you way to much about what times everyone was on and how it effects their alignment. To me I see why RW is talking about it, its his theory but you are just egging it on for him to continue talking about it and its taking away from actual scum hunting in my opinion.

RW does push the time of day someone is on as having baring on what alignment they are. Which i find no merit in at all. He does however have a break down on the players and how he finds them. And what has him thinking.

What do you (bookwyrm) think about the players and where do you stand? Is there someone that stands out more to you then someone else? We need to come together and work together if we are going to get anywhere at all. (I bolded so my question would stand out.

Some things I found off about your posts.

366-You said- "Not what I would have done as scum, but it does mean I'm not going to be risking my neck trying to block a Dessimu lynch today."

Dess was already lynched the day before and why talk about what you would or wouldnt do as scum? the next post is like you catch your mistake and try to make it logical as you meant you would try to save him today. and you would most likely of risked your neck to do it. Its in complete opposite of not risking your neck.

Meda mentions you might be trying to town slip and you throw a vote on her with out much of a reason at all for your vote and why you find her scummy until hyper prompts you to answer why and you also point out you need to give reasons. You most again but mention you need to give your reason. Why not just give the reason instead of keep mentioning you will.

and still talking about what if dess was not night killed. Moot point as he did not make the night. Seems like we should be talking about who is scum and not who we know for sure is not as they are no longer alive.

post 450- Finally get to reasons on your vote. Your last line in the post says the meda has a list and is sticking to it and not letting anything but flips change it. I found this to be not true. She seems to change her list and how people fall on it. Maybe she is not putting lists directly out there but she is talking about who and what she finds scummy and people seem to move and change locations as the game progresses

post 476 You say - "Naw, I was thinking of giving you at least through N3. You're too town and active to not be an attractive NK target. "

I dont like this sentence at all.

post 499- again what you would do as scum.

post 508 "May I suggest trying to draw him out some, then? Maybe ask him some questions?"
This is a good thing. I agree.

post 515 - talking about scum again but it is in response to hyper asking about your post earlier so this doesn't play much into things that raise my eye but it is another what would I do if I was scum.

524 - "Alright. I was going through D1 to collect a voting record (to be posted later, when I've finished some analysis I want to do first). I was wondering how some of her shenanigan votes fit with these posts."
I would like to see your analysis. I feel like there is not much analysis at all from you .

**I was to apologize for my piss poor typing skills and spelling. My spell check decided not to tell me how bad I spelled on the last few posts. I have restarted the laptop and it seems to be working again. I blame it on adilas script. =P not really but I had to *waves if your watching the game)

Me fulfilling my promise to back up my talk about Meda. I didn't do it earlier simply for lack of time.

My thoughts on Cristi.

My thoughts on JMich.

My thoughts on you (Sage).

My thoughts on Flub.

More recently (somewhat crossposted with you asking for thoughts and analysis), my thoughts on the end of Day 1.

High level updates since then:
-I feel better about Cristi being town.
-JMich and Flub haven't done much to move either direction.
-I'm quite glad to see more content from you, Sage.
-RW is in my top two for scum, with Meda. I'd lynch either one in a heartbeat.

Thank you for answering. Would you like me to respond to these points?

I'll put the voting record in a separate post, for clarity.

Vote Count Format
Post number: Voter votes Votee (updated wagon length)

Ex.
P8: Wyrm -> HSL (2)
Reads as: In post 8, Wyrm voted for HSL, and now HSL has 2 votes.

Legend
"->" means "votes"
"-x>" means "unvotes"
"*->" marks it as RVS
"?->" means it might be RVS; I'm not entirely sure
"VC" marks an official vote count post
"F->" marks a vote that isn't acceptable


Vote Record

P6: Trent *-> HSL (1)

P8: Wyrm -> HSL (2)

P9: Dess *-> Meda (1)

P10: Lift *-> Dess (1)

P11: RW -> Wyrm (1)

P12: Lift -x> Dess (0)

P16: HSL *-> Sage (1)

P19: Sage *-> Flub (1)

P20: JM ?-> Yog (1)

P33: Sage -x> Flub (0)
*-> Dess (1)

P34: Meda -> Flub (1)

P35: Wyrm F-> Yog (x)

P38: Flub ?-> Trent (1)

P40: VC

P44: Meda F-> RW (x)

P46: cristi *-> JMich (1)

P47: Meda -x> [Flub] (0)
-> RW (1)

P48: Dess -x> Meda (0)
*-> Lift (1)

P49: Lift -> Yog (2)

P65: VC

P68: HSL -x> Sage (0)

P71: Dess -x> Lift (0)
-> JM (2)

P82: Meda -x> RW (0)
-> Lift (1)

P88: Cristi -x> JM (1)

P89/94: Flub -x> Trent (0)

P127: VC

P133: Trent -x> HSL (1)
-> cristi (1)

P141: Dess -x> JM (0)
-> Wyrm (2)

P147: Wyrm -x> HSL (0)
-> Lift (2)

P153: VC

P160: VC

P168: Yog -> Dess (2)

P185: RW -x> Wyrm (1)
-> Yog (3)

P189: Trent -x> Cristi (0)
-> Dess (3)

P196: Dess -x> Wyrm (0)
-> Yog (4)

P198: VC

P203: Flub -> Yog (5)

P207: Wyrm -x> Lift (1)
-> Dess (4)

P210: VC

P211: Meda -x> Lift (0)
-> RW (1)

P260: Sage -x> Hyper (x)

P277: VC

P289: Meda -x> RW (0)
-> Dess (5)

P295: RW -x> Yog (4)
-> Dess (6)

P308: Trent -x> Dess (5)

P312: RW -x> Dess (4)

P318: Trent -> Dess (5)

P322: Meda F-x> RW (0)
F-> Dess (5)
{Already voting Dess}

P341: VC

P342: cristi -> yog (5)

P344: VC

P348: HSL -> yog (6)

P349: VC

P351: Meda -x> Dess (4)
-> Yog (7H)

P355: Lynch


While gathering the votes, it looked like Meda was bouncing around rather uselessly, especially mid-Day 1. This is something I still need to confirm for myself.

I've already talked about RW floating around at deadline.

No one else really stood out, and that requires a double check as well.

If you would like to yes of course. And thank you for taking the time to fully read my post and responding with your thoughts on everyone and links. And yes we did get a bit cross posted as I was writing my post when you posted and i neglected to refresh before posting.

just a short notice due to time constraints:
@dedo: I'm fine with extending the deadline, though that won't change much. Everyone will still waffle around until a few hours before the deadline, whenever that is, and then pile on in panic on whatever wagon is leading...

@Sage: I can't really follow the reasoning in your reply, but thanks for answering. I still think you're scummy. But since no one else seems to think so, at least not enough to vote, I'll probably will have to put my vote somewhere else.

Same for trent. Some usually quite good players have him as town. So maybe I'm wrong on him. So, where to put my vote instead? Meda? Or is that a 'too low hanging fruit'? I'll have to have a look at the reasons of the people voting meda so far.

@RWare: Bookwyrm actually raised a good point: Why didn't you vote at the end of Day 1?

thanks for posting lift you saved me a ton of refreshing to see if my time is up.

I think this is very important but we also need to look at who was pushing one way but not voting and letting others vote first.

I'm back, and picking up where I left off with my catching up.


Actually, it's D2, and my suggestion was not meant as as an extension, but as a permanent change. I thought that the deadline time cristigale had set last game worked better for both Europeans and Americans, as more people from both sides of the ocean were able to be on and discussing the hours before it.


More later.

I am quite aware of the day number. It's been pushed further because I extended the previous night by 6 hours when I ended the first day.

I also understood that you were suggesting a permanent change - the extension will naturally shift the deadline given the fact that the night will have a set length of 3 x 24 hours.


VOTE COUNT

flubbucket @ L-2 - Sage103082, trentonlf, RWarehall, medamiedo

medamiedo @ L-4 - Bookwyrm627, JMich
Sage103082 @ L-5 - Lifthrasil

Not voting - flubbucket, HypersomniacLive, cristigale

<span class="bold">DAY 2 COUNTDOWN (+6 hours)</span>

OK, I'm at the brink of another headache after going through the Bookwyrm627 and RWarehall back and forth.

Both are capable players, good with arguments and counter arguments, and both can be effectively manipulative. If it weren't for last game, I'd say that RWarehall reminded me a bit of his last scum game, but I thought the same last game, and we ended up suspecting and accusing each other for almost two Days when we were both town. It's been a very long time since I was in a game with Bookwyrm627, or followed a game he was in, which doesn't help, especially when he seems to be leaning in all directions for others. I need to do a full re-read on both to see if it clears up things, but it's gotten very late, and I'm too tired to do it now.

For now, I'd like a clarification from RWarehall:


That's not how I read the part you quoted, I read it as him thinking that you appear to be making up arguments as to why his idea is meaningless, when in reality you're worried that this path may lead to your scum buddies, hence are trying to dismiss his idea and steer his attention elsewhere by suggesting a different avenue for him to follow.

@RWarehall, am I reading this correctly?


I don't know exactly how many times he's been scum, probably in the very low one-digit numbers, and quite certainly a lot less than the times he's been town. And this behaviour of his, when town, has been discussed ad nauseam, most recently after the last game, a discussion you were a big part of, from what I remember. Which in turn makes me unsure if you actually don't associate it with town-him, or only said so because making the drealmer7 reference at the end of your 'here's why I don't think medamiedo is town" post really doesn't add up with the rest.

And Sage102082's comment (post #528) on your post #450 rings valid, and I'll do a re-read on medamiedo to see for myself.

Additionally, you QFT her post #489 "My reads are all over the place" (post #504), while earlier (post #450) you said that her "My scumreads have been pretty consistent for most of the game so far" (post #435) is fairly true, which all reads as a bit contradictory, making it hard(er) to understand what your stand on the matter is actually.


Looks like I took the term "spike" the wrong way.


[emphasis added]

Oh Bookwyrm627, was my gut right back then? Care to explain why you were trying to build a wagon on me right out of the gate on D1?

As for the rest, you missed a VC in post #92, and medamiedo pretending to unvote RWarehall and voting Dessimu in post #211.


I got a bit more, so would appreciate a bump if anyone's around; I'd really like to go to bed now.

Whut?? I can just barely hear you.

I admire you're dedication.

Clearly you are town.

In the interest of full disclosure of real life which sucks a bit right now: I've had a director resign and the ripples at work are overwhelming. 12-15 hour days and a wee bit o' stress.

No excuses....just info.

Disturbed by "fives"....another clear town tell.

Again I am certain one on your list is not scum.

[spoiler] It's me. [/spoiler]

Any particular reason you've not answered my post #511 question to you?


See my reply to the mod for why I suggested the change.

I expect the Days not to be used up in full as the game progresses, but in the first couple of Days at least, I don't see why you want to end the Day early, when it may prevent discussion - I think the more we have people on record the better. more so around the L-2/L-1 point. It may also provide easy cover for people to not take a stand - "hey, I wanted to think about it, but when I came to post/vote, the Day had ended already".

I want to do a re-read on you, and check what JMich said for myself (interesting that you've ignored his post, while have gone to quite some lengths to reply and defend yourself when questioned by others), but he reminded me of something I had made a note to ask you about, but focused on my questioning you about Dessimu that it remained a note till now.

Could you lay out why you decided that Bookwyrm627 is town back then?



[emphasis added]

So, everyone is leaning town or scum, and I'm leaning down? Why?!

Joking aside, the last couple of your posts feel much more like the Sage103082 I know. I'm a little concerned it took quite a few voices before you started posting and sharing more, and I'm still not clear why you refused to share what made Dessimu scummy in your eyes when I asked you, but did after Lifthrasil, whom you have as leaning scum, asked you. Still, good to see more from you.



The D2 comment was more in jest, and what I meant is that I hope that D3 won't revert back to noon GMT (as there was talk about shortening the Days as the game progresses). Cheers for obliging me.

Agreed.

However whether he's alive or not late game is not a logical indicator of alignment.

I don't think she's joking around either. Nor do I concern myself with her I never bus comments.

Regarding the lack of answers to my questions....it doesn't bother me about being ignored as much as a lack of thread reading and ISOing of players. Town should have a keen eye on each player to suss out town and scum. This only happens through reading.

If you're not answering questions then you're not reading carefully.

I was quite satisfied with the outcome?!?!?

This horseshit is based on what??

Wow! I just got to this post.

I really don't like those last two votes.....(trentonlf and Sage103082)

I'm guessing one or both are scum.

Vote: Sage103082