Follow my number example above. Loop over it for hiding gating features of a game arbitrarily behind online requirements. You also totally missed the train on the CP2077 example. I'm not saying "take away something that was already there" but apply the filter to what was there when it released (AKA, not retroactively taking something away).

My filter above, with CP2077... Consider the following [again, this isn't retroactively removing stuff, assume the game had been released in this state]
* Music?
* All character upgrade art?
* Voiceovers
* All NPC models replaced with standard one?
* Buildings replaced with blocks? [mind you, gameplay is still 100% same! I've only so far blocked cosmetic items behind online DRM that requires signing in activation to access]
* All vehicles and NPCs replaced with wireframe boxes of appropriate size?
* Story text replaced with shortened 'cliffnotes' one-liners.
* Remove half the weapons/gear/upgrades/skill trees.
* Reduce the map by half.

Etc...

Take a look at my thread over here for other examples to consider:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/make_your_own_drm_example/page1

So, no, we're not having a small disagreement. You just fundamentally do not understand DRM and are refusing to apply any critical thought to the topic to make effort to understand it.

I haven't made that fallacy. I said it's not DRM, I called it offline lockout, a negative term to encourage it as a negative, I did not deny it's existence, just say it isn't a DRM. I made a distinction of terms. And my Stellaris example was not emotion. I said a mechanic ceased to function because mathematics around it hinges on the existence of two items that are only in the expansion. Not having them breaks a system necessary for strategic knowledge. That's not emotional dude that's a clear and definable set of traits.

It is not possible within the realm of causality to debunk a definition. You can call it a bad definition or useless, but a definition cannot be debunked, at least when I am only talking about myself. You can't debunk my thoughts and beliefs.

I make it clear "we added new stuff, but the new stuff is offline locked," is either false advertising or failure to provided promised services or products. The base game itself, still functions. Epic false advertises free but then pulls the rug out from under you by revealed the product they promise isn't what you're getting, because you get the 1.0 version with content hard removed. That is false advertising and heinous in its own right. It is a totally separate issue, and arguably worse. If we just label it as DRM, it undersells the actual problem and even passes over it.

Did you read what I said dude?! I said I will help you by using a negative term, offline lockout of content, because I don't want to give a linguistic weapon which encourages this practice. I do not like this practice, but the reason I left steam was because of the games not functioning without steamworks, not because a jedi robe or a cosmetic side-grade weapon requires an online login. I made a distinction, not a justification. I want to stop people from saying the shit in sythetik, is not the same as a hard game lockout like with Hitman or anything on Steam. This is not saying "this is a good thing stop complaining" its "well hold on, while this is bad, it's not the game doesn't function. I understand why GoG has to do this, because it be impractical otherwise." Equating those two statements is actually the fallacy false equivalence.

Okay, I said specifically I wouldn't call it that. And what does Denuvo have to do with anything, That trashfire isn't even comparable to the conversation. I'm sorry to pick on you but you have given me a meaningful example here. People keep commiting the actual fallacy of false equivalent to say that subscription items in Synthetik is no different from Steamworks and somehow the exact same as Denuvo.

It's a matter of kind, not a matter of degree. Can we rephrase the term to make that point more clear? Instead of DRM, let's call it an online connection requirement.

Some games have layers upon layers of online connection requirements, which one could say is "worse" than something like a cosmetic item being locked behind a single online connection requirement.

However, if wanting a game free of online connection requirements altogether, it doesn't really matter that one example is more intrusive than the other.

I did misread and thus miss the cyberpunk example. I would have asked for clarification, which you provided via that list. Given that list I'd say it's DRM locked. A story heavy RPG with half the skills, almost every piece of equipment, much of the background and interactable entities, and sections of the map missing would indeed render the game non-functional as advertised. I don't need emotions to say that. If you want a specific line, then honestly half that list would be the line. I'd say any one of the things below voiceovers would classify as the game not functioning as advertised without an online service, thus, DRM locked.

Sorry if that was long I wanted to be fair and answer the proposed question about breaking from the list without a purely emotional appeal. But allow me to take your example and make it worse. Because by making this distinction I have pointed out a level of false advertising. Even it's ongoing sale, if this list is true, is falsely advertising what the game requires and uses, which is actually more heinous than just having a DRM. I would choose an honest admission of DRM before trying to hide it like this. Neither is good by any means but the distinction gives CDProject Red the rope to hang themselves.

It does not change that I do not share your definition. again, this is a not a fallacy or act of malice, nor it is justifying anything, it is just saying that what is happening in Sythetik, is not the same as what steamworks does or what is happening in Hitman or CP2077.

I did promise to follow a no post twice rule but I did make a mistake which I need to be fair and address. It was a point which would have saved me needing to even bring up Stellaris since this is a better and more direct example. I do apologize for the misreading.

WHERE in the process did you decide it was too much and became DRM locked? It was a gradual process, just changing one small thing at a time.

Just like the other example of gradually removing one in-game-item at a time [locked behind the DRM]. Currently five-ish items? What about when 6 are in MYREWARDS? 7? 8?... all but 10? 50%? ...all but one? Literally all of them?

There's no place but an emotional response to decide "this is enough, it's DRM now!" Returning/reversing the other way, re-adding features until it's no longer DRMed?

The only place you can draw the line with any sort of reason (rather than emotion) is at zero items gated behind the online activation.

Well said; I agree. I'm not defending this content, it is annoying, intrusive, and highly abused. Case in point being Hitman and Cyberpunk, which bordering into DRM using this practice as their loophole. If someone downvoted the game to hell on the basis tiny sections of it like non-canon character costumes and the like are unavailable, then it is their right and I would brook no harm against them for it, even if I disagree. But I see people comparing it directly to steamworks or Denuvo and -that- is just false equivalence and unhelpful.

I think GoG would be wise to not allow this loophole and save themselves the headache, moderating it will be a challenge requiring constant watch, but if they want to take that challenge I wish them the best, so far they are getting a mid to low C. I'm dissapointed but not ready to able to call it failure.
Please re-read my post. I answered any of the options below voiceovers. I could go into long mechanical details to each bullet point but I don't think anyone wants to read a 2-3 page single space essay. And I am going to have to ask, are we talking things that were never available on conception, or those removed after the fact. you just changed the conditions of your question. The latter, outright removal of content, is outright theft and sabotage of property. That is much worse than DRM.

Thanks you for the List of (partially) DRM'ed games.

I value freedom and independence.

You know, there is no reason for me to buy games with DRM on GOG, even if it's just a forced online connection.
I get them for less money on other stores where all my gaming contact reside.

This is probably going to happen with my next purchases "Hitman GOTY" and "X4". I don't own them yet and was on the verge of buying them here before stumbling across some negative user reviews.

This might be subjective, but as long as these additional features and rewards do not affect the single-player offline experience in a major way, we believe that the developers and publishers should be free to design and sell their games in a way they choose.

And from

https://www.gog.com/about_gog

We don't believe in controlling you and your games. Here, you won't be locked out of titles you paid for, or constantly asked to prove you own them - this is DRM-free gaming.

Nice of GOG to put some games that requires an online connections to access some mostly single-player content like Hitman.

Seriously, GOG, if a game developer / publisher sells a game that goes against GOG's missions statements, you shouldn't sell it in the first place. Otherwise, what's the point in shopping here if it's the same thing as buying to game through one of your competitor? You're watering down your most important distinguishing factor, DRM-free games that you own.

Thanks for the list of games that I will never be purchasing.

There is no difference between the CD check DRM that existed before Windows 10 and having to be online so your game can connect to a server to validate your ownership. They both serve the exact same purpose of forcing you to confirm over and over again to a game developer acting like a clingy girlfriend/boyfriend (take your pick) who needs constant validation from you about the status of the relationship.

I'd say always online is worse. At least with CD check you can take measures to ensure that the CD is not damaged and your game is therefore not unusable; and all interactions between the checker and the CD drive are local. The online checkers are controlled by unknown entities that could switch off the server any time, or collect your data there and then sell it.

Selling such crap on a store that claims to be "DRM-free" is inexcusable. If GOG can't delist it, they must at least clearly mark it as DRM-ed if they care at all.

I am in total agreement that always online is actually worse. The point was that it's fulfilling the same exact function of the old cd check DRM. Both exist for no reason other than to make you prove over and over again that you're not a thief that stole the software you actually bought.


As for turning off the servers at any time, it has happened. I know of two instances, but I'm sure there are others.

I specifically cited the case of Ubisoft and Might & Magic 10 in the Developers that don't click with you thread. To briefly summarize - Ubisoft shut down the validation servers for Might & Magic 10 even though it meant that players would only be able to play 1/4th of the game.... and left it on storefronts for people to buy. It only got delisted after it was being bombarded with negative reviews warning people not to buy it.

Another one that I know of personally is the premium modules for the Bioware version of Neverwinter Nights. At least in this case, they stopped selling the premium modules first, allowed the ones in development to be finished then released as free downloads, then waited years before shutting down the online validation DRM server. It also helps that there was no reaction from Bioware when a user eventually came up with a utility to fix the three online DRM locked premium modules so that they work completely offline.

Pretty much if a game on the single-player games with DRM list, it too will become unplayable either in whole or part once those validation servers are shut down. It doesn't matter how popular something like Cyberpunk 2077 or Hitman GOTY are right now. They won't stay that way forever.

It got updated around 1 day ago. I just got to test it, and now I can get past the prologue part! =D

That's good. Finally someone that care

Wingspan requires GOG Galaxy to play multiplayer. Single-player is fully playable using the offline installer. This requirement is not listed on the store page.

I'll add it to the multiplayer list. Did you contact Support about the missing multiplayer warning on the game page?


Nice. That means, I can remove it from the list.