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Lifthrasil: Please let us know what the dev says. This sounds more like a bug than intentional DRM. But a bug that is unfixed for more than a year starts to look like a 'feature'.

I'll add it to the list provisionally and remove it, if the dev fixes the bug.
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_Auster_: The reply from the lead programmer from about 13 hours ago:

Hey auster, thanks for bringing that thread to my attention.

Seems like a user in the thread posted out a stacktrace that explain at least some of the issue.
Not an intentional DRM thing that's happening, simply that the attempts to report achievements (typically at the end of every episode) are failing which then cause some critical processes to not run.
It should be pretty straight forward for me to replicate on my end and I'll work to have it fixed soon.

I'll respond to the thread in the forums in a bit to clear up what's going on.
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_Auster_: On a side note, I thought this "respond in a bit" would be in 1 or 2 hours top. I wonder if the issue was much bigger than he/she expected?
Well, if it really is a bug, debugging can take some time. I know. I'd wait 1 or 2 days before drawing conclusions rather than hours.

Thank you very much for reaching out. I'll update the entry accordingly and then we'll wait what the programmer says.
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I think Saints Row: The Third Remastered should be added to the list. Most game settings aren't saved without galaxy:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/saints_row_3_remastered_not_working_properly_without_galaxy/page1
https://www.gog.com/forum/saints_row_series/bug_all_nongraphics_options_reset_to_default_on_game_launch_sr3_remastered

It's been almost 3 months and no fix is in sight.
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mqstout: I tend to focus on the social/emotional reasons against external achievements, ...
Which are? (Since I use achievements sometimes I want to be sure that they won't harm me).

But I do agree that achievements should never break the game when played without the client and they should not change the compatibility of the game.
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russellskanne: I think Saints Row: The Third Remastered should be added to the list. Most game settings aren't saved without galaxy:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/saints_row_3_remastered_not_working_properly_without_galaxy/page1
https://www.gog.com/forum/saints_row_series/bug_all_nongraphics_options_reset_to_default_on_game_launch_sr3_remastered

It's been almost 3 months and no fix is in sight.
Again, this looks like a bug. But not replying is a tacit admission, that GOG doesn't care about accidental DRM any more than they care about intentional DRM.

I'll wait for a reply in those threads whether anyone actually contacted the devs and what they said. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
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Lifthrasil: Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Oh, you are speaking GOG PR now? :D
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MarkoH01: But I do agree that achievements should never break the game when played without the client and they should not change the compatibility of the game.
Here's a thread I made on the topic before. Conversation should probably continue over there rather than here:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/why_achivements_are_not_innocuous/page1
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MarkoH01: But I do agree that achievements should never break the game when played without the client and they should not change the compatibility of the game.
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mqstout: Here's a thread I made on the topic before. Conversation should probably continue over there rather than here:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/why_achivements_are_not_innocuous/page1
Nice. When I read your comment I was already thnking about creating such a thread since it still seems to be a topic that is interesting for quite some users. Will take a look. Thank you.
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Lifthrasil: Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
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MarkoH01: Oh, you are speaking GOG PR now? :D
Yep. :-)
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mqstout: I got this response from misguided GOG support ("Ponczo") regarding this thread. GOG's apparently content with any cosmetic DRM. The fuckers.
All games available on GOG have offline installers available. We stay in touch with the partners and do our best to keep them up to date. However, video games continue to evolve with many titles offering online modes, cosmetics, and incentives for completing certain actions by players. This might be subjective, but as long as these additional features and rewards do not affect the single-player offline experience in a major way, we believe that the developers and publishers should be free to design and sell their games in a way they choose.
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mqstout:
Is there a link to this statement or was it in a PM/Support ticket?
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HypersomniacLive: Is there a link to this statement or was it in a PM/Support ticket?
Sadly it was a support ticket reply, so is not sharable.
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mqstout: Sadly it was a support ticket reply, so is not sharable.
Sadly, indeed. Can you share what the context was?
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HypersomniacLive: Sadly, indeed. Can you share what the context was?
That quote was in response to a support ticket I opened referring to this thread. This was in late March, 2021. The text of my initial ticket opening follows:
Has GOG client relations contacted your partners about removing DRM from their products that are on GOG, or censured them otherwise for releasing bad content on GOG? The community has compiled a list for management's convenience, which includes your sister company:

(link to this thread)

Or is GOG going to post publicly "We now accept cosmetic DRM and want our customers to know we are happy taking money to give you a partial product"?
Post edited September 28, 2021 by mqstout
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mqstout: That quote was in response to a support ticket I opened referring to this thread. This was in late March, 2021.
Has GOG client relations contacted your partners about removing DRM from their products that are on GOG, or censured them otherwise for releasing bad content on GOG? The community has compiled a list for management's convenience, which includes your sister company:

(link to this thread)

Or is GOG going to post publicly "We now accept cosmetic DRM and want our customers to know we are happy taking money to give you a partial product"?
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mqstout:
Thanks. It'd appear to explain the recent Hitman GOTY release.
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Interesting so this is more of a problem in the overall then it is the with any one game.

This does bring up an interesting quandary I brought up in another thread, where is the line to what is DRM. some of these are indeed only cosmetic, are purely online concepts, or have distribution that was originally not free, or given out using the pay-for model without a price tag. some are just errors which I'll get to in a second. This does appear to be an error in the system with bits and pieces being let through using loopholes or honest mistakes, and GoG is unable to watch everything. and honestly, fair enough. I agree that developers shouldn't be denied online centered content, but that line can be crossed easily. This isn't even to mention the semantics in moderating it all.

you should also swap the order on the Hitman listing. The loss of special-release content and user-created work is a legitimate question mark, but losing all of your unlocks and all challenges is a huge drop in the games functionality, it should be listed first.

Sad to see Sythetik on here, I guess I won't be buying that one. But it does serve as a good case study. Deciding what classifies as "cosmetic" is a line of semantics that could do on forever. Hitman is the exception, since what was taken out is arguably part of the game, but it's very easy to loophole "well, the unlocks are only side-grades or re-skins and not important." And that can easily slip through GoGs sight.

The more I delve into this issue the more difficult it becomes to judge.
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mastyer-kenobi: This does bring up an interesting quandary I brought up in another thread, where is the line to what is DRM....
I've brought this up before. There's NO way to draw the line with any logic, reasoning, or rational thought [etc] other than absolutely no DRM. Once any is allowed, one [like GOG and developers] can blur it to allow anything they want to any degree short of total 100%.

It's a "straw that broke the camel's back" type analogy. Hide one feature behind DRM? You're OK? And another? And another? And another?... There's no way you can figure out where the back-breaking occurs with the latest DRM-straw through anything other than emotion and gut reaction.

Related: Check out my other thread I made here for some more thought pieces on the topic showing the absurdity of "it's not DRM" arguments for allowing DRM in single player games: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/make_your_own_drm_example

EDIT: And regarding "cosmetic", the "It's just cosmetic" thing has thoroughly been debunked many many people in many places. Here's one example video, so I needn't repeat arguments here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce5CDrq4dGg

(Yes, I know you've fallen on the "DRM-free, please" side. I'm just trying to help you to overcome some of your allowances you haven't quite been able to resolve yet.)
Post edited September 28, 2021 by mqstout