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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect's Guide V2(1001 posts)(1001 posts)
(1001 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 15, 2020
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PETEX93: Hey!

Do you have an unfair viable STR based TWF build or ideas for things to consider for it? How good would one be? I've been thinking about trying one but I'm unsure about the best way to go about it.
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InEffect: pure twf without shield would be double blade builds since that has 1.5 STR, then just go STR stacking. Easiest thing to go there would be Vivi16/TM1/Slayer3. No mirror, but you do get 2 bites with motherless and 8 attacks with a lot of sneak and flat dice. Plus you get lots of feats to support it.
How would you allocate stats here?
Posted April 15, 2020
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PETEX93: How would you allocate stats here?
18/14/12/12/17/7 motherless
Posted April 15, 2020
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PETEX93: How would you allocate stats here?
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InEffect: 18/14/12/12/17/7 motherless
Something along these lines? I feel like I'm missing something or doing things out of order, like I think I could allocate Slayer to a better position to try and cheat TWF feat easier. Should I add combat maneuvers to make it more like your Trip Vivi build?

Race: Tiefling (Motherless)
Alignment: Lawful Good

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 17 > 18 @ 20
Cha: 7

Monk (Traditional) 1/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 16/Slayer 3

Lvl 1: Monk - Dodge // Crane Style
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker // Feral Mutagen
Lvl 4: Alchemist
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Two Weapon Fighting // Combat Trick > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Crane Wing // Combat trick > Outflank
Lvl 8: Alchemist
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Exotic: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Lvl 10: Alchemist
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Weapon Focus: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 12: Alchemist
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Two Bladed Sword // Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 14: Alchemist
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Greater Two Weapon Fighting // Greater Mutagen
Lvl 16: Alchemist
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Crane Riposte // Combat Trick > Double Slice
Lvl 18: Slayer
Lvl 19: Slayer - Power Attack // Combat Trick > Dreadful Carnage
Lvl 20: Slayer
Post edited April 15, 2020 by PETEX93
Posted April 15, 2020
Looks alright, although you don't need TWF feats anytime near earlygame. Backload those pretty far back into the teens - you'd want to use staff for some time anyways and there is only one actually good double sword to care about, so I'd just chug along with a staff for quite a bit. And you can grab some actually good feats like shatter and crane. I also see no compelling reason to get dreadful carnage since you'd likely want a dirge bard anyways. I'd probably take deceitful and intimidating early.

I'd also get wis18 at 4 as that's a welcome AC boost where it counts. And you don't need improved crit at all since twin crystals are keen. Another option would be to start with wis 16 and dex 15 with much the same effect. Would be slightly easier to take TWF feats, I guess, but will saves are more important, so it's whatever you prefer.
Posted April 15, 2020
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InEffect: Looks alright, although you don't need TWF feats anytime near earlygame. Backload those pretty far back into the teens - you'd want to use staff for some time anyways and there is only one actually good double sword to care about, so I'd just chug along with a staff for quite a bit. And you can grab some actually good feats like shatter and crane. I also see no compelling reason to get dreadful carnage since you'd likely want a dirge bard anyways. I'd probably take deceitful and intimidating early.

I'd also get wis18 at 4 as that's a welcome AC boost where it counts. And you don't need improved crit at all since twin crystals are keen. Another option would be to start with wis 16 and dex 15 with much the same effect. Would be slightly easier to take TWF feats, I guess, but will saves are more important, so it's whatever you prefer.
Cheers man! Yeah and you were right it's going to take a while to get to the twin crystals. I need to think about this doubly, though playing as a tiefling seems intriquing as I haven't done so before.

Edit: An additional question, how would this build fare until acquiring the late game weapon?
Post edited April 16, 2020 by PETEX93
Posted April 16, 2020
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PETEX93: Cheers man! Yeah and you were right it's going to take a while to get to the twin crystals. I need to think about this doubly, though playing as a tiefling seems intriquing as I haven't done so before.

Edit: An additional question, how would this build fare until acquiring the late game weapon?
4attacks in the earlygame with claws and 2 bites(because claws don't have -2 attack pentalty) Then 2+ staffattacks+2bites... Witch sells a decent +2staff+2d6 frost, which is perfectly adequate. Then there is Ruin from relations. if you help the dude and select artifact as a reward, which can be done relatively fast. Think of it that way: when are you feasibly getting improved TWF+double slice without gimping yourself? well that's when the staff will be just marginally worse. Which will coincide with the time you get twin crystals give or take. It's almost like it's meant to be that way.
Post edited April 16, 2020 by InEffect
Posted April 16, 2020
New player here,

I was browsing through the builds, which are awesome, but i was wondering if there is something about a dwarf melee front liner.

I really like the dwarf fantasy but from what i read their stats are not that great for higher difficulties. Is it possible for a build of dual wield dwarf killing machine or an already existing one with modifications for dwarves ?

Got the dlcs etc.
Posted April 16, 2020
Just a quick question

Whats the earliest decent Greataxe to switch to from Quarterstaff?
Post edited April 16, 2020 by -Rimiu-
Posted April 16, 2020
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-Rimiu-: Just a quick question

Whats the earliest decent Greataxe to switch to from Quarterstaff?
Vanquisher. Since you can get it at level 9 give or take. Barring that, just hope your artisans bring in something decent. There are like 4 artisan greataxes and all are not bad.
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HuskyOwl: New player here,

I was browsing through the builds, which are awesome, but i was wondering if there is something about a dwarf melee front liner.

I really like the dwarf fantasy but from what i read their stats are not that great for higher difficulties. Is it possible for a build of dual wield dwarf killing machine or an already existing one with modifications for dwarves ?

Got the dlcs etc.
I mean you can take the v16/M1/Slayer3 build above and it'll be ok on a dwarf, just with slightly worse stat spread. Dwarves in general just don't offer much to build upon. Humans get a feat and can dump int, Aasimars get the most stat total and wings, motherless gets an extra bite... Dwarves just don't get anything special to build on and dwarven weapons are unimpressive to say the least, so that part of the kit is out. And dwarven speed thing is totally useless. They are usable if you think of them as bad tieflings or something. Guess you can say they are ok-ish clerics except humans are better... and ok druids, but the humans are better(and can be master race feyspeakers).
Post edited April 16, 2020 by InEffect
Posted April 16, 2020
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-Rimiu-: Just a quick question

Whats the earliest decent Greataxe to switch to from Quarterstaff?
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InEffect: Vanquisher. Since you can get it at level 9 give or take. Barring that, just hope your artisans bring in something decent. There are like 4 artisan greataxes and all are not bad.
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HuskyOwl: New player here,

I was browsing through the builds, which are awesome, but i was wondering if there is something about a dwarf melee front liner.

I really like the dwarf fantasy but from what i read their stats are not that great for higher difficulties. Is it possible for a build of dual wield dwarf killing machine or an already existing one with modifications for dwarves ?

Got the dlcs etc.
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InEffect: I mean you can take the v16/M1/Slayer3 build above and it'll be ok on a dwarf, just with slightly worse stat spread. Dwarves in general just don't offer much to build upon. Humans get a feat and can dump int, Aasimars get the most stat total and wings, motherless gets an extra bite... Dwarves just don't get anything special to build on and dwarven weapons are unimpressive to say the least, so that part of the kit is out. And dwarven speed thing is totally useless. They are usable if you think of them as bad tieflings or something. Guess you can say they are ok-ish clerics except humans are better... and ok druids, but the humans are better(and can be master race feyspeakers).
Thanks a lot for your quick input! I will give it a try just for the fantasy
Posted April 16, 2020
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PETEX93: Cheers man! Yeah and you were right it's going to take a while to get to the twin crystals. I need to think about this doubly, though playing as a tiefling seems intriquing as I haven't done so before.

Edit: An additional question, how would this build fare until acquiring the late game weapon?
avatar
InEffect: 4attacks in the earlygame with claws and 2 bites(because claws don't have -2 attack pentalty) Then 2+ staffattacks+2bites... Witch sells a decent +2staff+2d6 frost, which is perfectly adequate. Then there is Ruin from relations. if you help the dude and select artifact as a reward, which can be done relatively fast. Think of it that way: when are you feasibly getting improved TWF+double slice without gimping yourself? well that's when the staff will be just marginally worse. Which will coincide with the time you get twin crystals give or take. It's almost like it's meant to be that way.
Thank you!
Posted April 19, 2020
How badly does Valerie Bard and New Amiri build overlap in gear? Like I saw Gyronna does and I wonder how well they will do if I only give it to the person who needs it more.

Also Will Amiri be fine on Hard/Unfair with the build? I really wanna take her with me once for flavor.

Or am I misunderstanding here and she's more of a 2nd row damage dealer with that build and not an off-tank?
Posted April 19, 2020
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-Rimiu-: How badly does Valerie Bard and New Amiri build overlap in gear? Like I saw Gyronna does and I wonder how well they will do if I only give it to the person who needs it more.

Also Will Amiri be fine on Hard/Unfair with the build? I really wanna take her with me once for flavor.

Or am I misunderstanding here and she's more of a 2nd row damage dealer with that build and not an off-tank?
Bard val doesn't really need gyronna and paragon. Those are just BIS. Amiri kinda needs those. Off-tanking is somewhat of a meme and regardless of what you do she'd need to have good AC. Give or amiri val Shiny helmet instead of paragon. And gyronna... Val will be ok without.
Post edited April 19, 2020 by InEffect
Posted April 19, 2020
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-Rimiu-: How badly does Valerie Bard and New Amiri build overlap in gear? Like I saw Gyronna does and I wonder how well they will do if I only give it to the person who needs it more.

Also Will Amiri be fine on Hard/Unfair with the build? I really wanna take her with me once for flavor.

Or am I misunderstanding here and she's more of a 2nd row damage dealer with that build and not an off-tank?
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InEffect: Bard val doesn't really need gyronna and paragon. Those are just BIS. Amiri kinda needs those. Off-tanking is somewhat of a meme and regardless of what you do she'd need to have good AC.
Thank you. Was more concerned if she can actually hold the line. I just said off-tank because I wasn't sure what to call it.
Posted April 19, 2020
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-Rimiu-: Was more concerned if she can actually hold the line. I just said off-tank because I wasn't sure what to call it.
That amiri kinda has better AC ramp than val does. At least once you get the oak after vordakai and should be roughly equal before.
Post edited April 19, 2020 by InEffect
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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect's Guide V2(1001 posts)(1001 posts)
(1001 posts)