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BJMcKay: I don't personally get into the NSFW genre, so it's not about my preferences. However, the way Steam and Itch.io reacted to pressure from payment processors was unacceptable. Their decisions felt rushed and forced, with little thought for the creators or the gamers affected. The payment processors extortion-like pressure to ban or hide content is seriously concerning. We must be able to spend our money how we want, not receive orders on what's allowed or not.
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Timboli: While I understand your view, I am guessing a form of blackmail is going on, and so a huge amount of financial loss could result. Steam could likely weather that, but I'm not sure about Itch.io and others. I also imagine that Steam has already had some financial impact by its war with Epic.

So imagine for instance, if a bunch of Christian religions, some quite big, and perhaps other supporting religions, asked or told their followers not to buy from certain stores, as directed by God. That could result in a large financial loss to those stores.
If boycotts by reli gious groups worked, then wouldn't the Flying Spaghetti Monster's followers already have shut down all gluten-free noodle shops? No, because they worship ab surdity. It's like watching an orange man change tar iffs every other day, a loss of ration ale and stable insti tutions, yet nobody seems to figure out how to replay his ab surd script. Let's don't play that game.

Finally! It's true there are censored words here!
Post edited July 25, 2025 by BJMcKay
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BJMcKay: I don't personally get into the NSFW genre, so it's not about my preferences. However, the way Steam and Itch.io reacted to pressure from payment processors was unacceptable. Their decisions felt rushed and forced, with little thought for the creators or the gamers affected. The payment processors extortion-like pressure to ban or hide content is seriously concerning. We must be able to spend our money how we want, not receive orders on what's allowed or not.
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Timboli: While I understand your view, I am guessing a form of blackmail is going on, and so a huge amount of financial loss could result. Steam could likely weather that, but I'm not sure about Itch.io and others. I also imagine that Steam has already had some financial impact by its war with Epic.

So imagine for instance, if a bunch of Christian religions, some quite big, and perhaps other supporting religions, asked or told their followers not to buy from certain stores, as directed by God. That could result in a large financial loss to those stores.
No! The Dick Elders! Back to the past, Dan, so we can get laid!!

Religions are not fan clubs or activism associations, or some extremist parties, at least have not been so for a century or two. If the Pope says "no premarital sex" the typical reaction is that someone (die-hards, a minor portion) holds to the rule, someone (most believers) tries at least not to go unhinged about it, using that as an "ideal guideline" (so they just end up doing it only when it's something a bit serious) and some do literally what they want at a whim, just keeping a facade. Some religions indeed have more involved followers, but it's not really about religion but culture/traditional morals, so they prolly don't buy/do those things already, and an official ban by a cleric is not needed.
So the impact is not as complete and mechanically successful as you picture, way less severe, nuanced and disomogenuous (still some bucks lost...well enterprises profit and keep a margin and have to get used to think and plan beneath short term gain&losses and offer stability instead!)
The whole panic has started American-style whith the immediate aim to make ruckus and still is about it. These whole kind of threads, quite frequent on GOG, have a bit of fearmongering in it (I remember "Covid everything" times, forceful "bi and queer" cringe season, "Ban everything Russian/Russia did nothing wrong" polar quarrel, etc: bah)
Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob
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Namur: Anyone cheering bans and instances of self censorship already taking place over this have no idea at all of what it is they're cheering for.
We're giving them publicity. We should just deny support to this, but quietly. I suspect many such campaigns are focused on visibility (maybe, more bluntly, this or that association's self-preserving interests) at least as much as their ideals (given to others that were minding their own business, btw).
Here we're having MOIGE for decades - Italian Parents Movement, and their claims against free-on-air anime on tv...quite close to the "think of the children" meme. To be precise, actual children that can't understand double-entendres or sinister implications (but can well be scared by violence, harm and direct threats, that are actually more frequent on teen shows..) or at most "children" of 15+ that actively search and crave for such naughty content. It gained attention, then it started to thrive less with less attention.

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randomuser.833: GoG will do the same, I am sure. They can't afford to say fuck you either.
Only thing that could help is a world wide payment solution from Europe that can say fuck you to US religious fanatics.

But I think the next one being hit will be Patreon. To my knowledge, a lot X-rated games development is there, financed by supporters.

Itch might be done though.

I wish all good luck for the Japan going against it.
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dick1982: check with the aussie activist grp that's been calling for such payment bans, and gloating about it on socials. they're not from USA and they don't sound religious at all. they're a bunch of woke lefty feminazis... other users before you already posted about it. learn to read?
Shimoneta was right? I'm baffled. Weren't left-wing feminists about sexual freedom? Did it go so far that went full circle back?!?
Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob
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dick1982: check with the aussie activist grp that's been calling for such payment bans, and gloating about it on socials. they're not from USA and they don't sound religious at all. they're a bunch of woke lefty feminazis... other users before you already posted about it. learn to read?
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marcob: Shimoneta was right? I'm baffled. Weren't left-wing feminists about sexual freedom? Did it go so far that went full circle back?!?
Surprising yes as they are largely only okay with such if it fits a very narrow perspective such a thing.. as they campaign against most media type sexual freedoms but if its real life they are largely okay with it in any form.. Atleast last I checked
Post edited July 25, 2025 by BanditKeith2
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marcob: Shimoneta was right? I'm baffled. Weren't left-wing feminists about sexual freedom? Did it go so far that went full circle back?!?
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BanditKeith2: Surprising yes as they are largely only okay with such if it fits a very narrow perspective such a thing.. as they campaign against most media type sexual freedoms but if its real life they are largely okay with it in any form.. At least last I checked
So is indeed about propaganda (picturing something only as if the world were already the way as it should be/everybody's imagination is the same as yours). No one should fight to do something and then be ok not to show people are doing it! (privacy aside, of course, but fictional heroes do not have that) .
Plus we're ultimately speaking about making up stories, so the actual set of things in them should be broader, not narrower: that's what stories are for. Equating stories not with dreams, exploration and desires but with real-life actions or purposes is mind sclerosis. There are so many stories about post-apo Australia, so, to go with such absurdist train of thought, australians are wishing for a nuke?!?
The "education" argument goes back to the propaganda mindset: they're not school books (very ironically, they were the ones rightfully complaining about others' tentative ban of forward-looking school books, not porn of course...my brain cells start to mingle now for the lack of consistency, which could actually be a very peculiar or nitpicky moral instead..). My hair would raise if Kagura (whose main sin is still not pursuing higher quality) would be used as realistic sex-ed.
Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob
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BanditKeith2: Surprising yes as they are largely only okay with such if it fits a very narrow perspective such a thing.. as they campaign against most media type sexual freedoms but if its real life they are largely okay with it in any form.. At least last I checked
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marcob: So is indeed about propaganda (picturing something only as if the world were already the way as it should be/everybody's imagination is the same as yours). No one should fight to do something and then be ok not to show people are doing it! (privacy aside, of course, but fictional heroes do not have that) .
Plus we're ultimately speaking about making up stories, so the actual set of things in them should be broader, not narrower: that's what stories are for. Equating stories not with dreams, exploration and desires but with real-life actions or purposes is mind sclerosis. There are so many stories about post-apo Australia, so, to go with such absurdist train of thought, australians are wishing for a nuke?!?
The "education" argument goes back to the propaganda mindset: they're not school books (very ironically, they were the ones rightfully complaining about others' tentative ban of forward-looking school books, not porn of course...my brain cells start to mingle now for the lack of consistency, which could actually be a very peculiar or nitpicky moral instead..). My hair would raise if Kagura (whose main sin is still not pursuing higher quality) would be used as realistic sex-ed.
Ya this sort of insanity has been going on sense atleast 2010s in being noticable in varies fandoms and media circles
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sqjzwpsr: Maybe in the US of A - in Europe it's likely more of a 50 50 or even a 40 60 ratio with alternative payment methods like PayPal being able to assert themselves.
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idbeholdME: Steam conformed to PayPal actually.

But whatever, all the main payment processors just work in tandem. It's an area that desperately needs decentralization. Because currently, Mastercard, Visa and PayPal hold way too much power. They are what needs to be regulated yesterday.

The ToS update is in the screen. Basically, payment processors can literally say to any business - "conform or die".

It is also another reason why retaining physical currency is vitally important, now more than ever. And why entities like the EU are pushing so hard towards removing it - total control.
On the practical side (not freedom principles) porn sites exist (regulated centrally or not, that's another issue and its solution is not trivially the lassaiz faire approach).
Porn sites, so a lot more risque content than say anime tiddies or Witcher one-night-stands, get paid. They have subscription plans and I doubt they receive bank transfers or cash. What credit card do they accept? Sites should go with them instead.

PS. Imho the bulk of EU is not some moral state ancient times nostalgics or all-seeing big brothers. There are some fringe groups and they get overrepresented as they spend their time at politician's ears (something other people should do more, if they didn't have more interesting and necessary things to do). The only "big brother mode" topic to politicians in EU is, I bet, taxes, and I kinda understand it.
Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob
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Xeshra: Everytime someone is telling me i should not buy something i will buy it one more time... so i hope they may give up at some point trying to patronizing me.
As a quite old fellow, thus shifting towards traditionalism to my own horror, I don't really like some content, or I actually like it less than I used to, and I doubt I would do it in reality.
That's unintuitively one reason not to ban those things heavily or entirely: they give additional value to the product, they make it rare and prized while it often is not worth such reputation.
I noticed that even the most trivial non free adult game is typically at the same price as big name sagas with much more meat to them! Ten euros for a whole collection of arcade classics, two indie gems at day one or a graphics-heavy strategy with basic campaigns; fifteen or twenty euros for a visual novel with on-screen written dialogues and mostly static pictures...(!)
I came to think over the time that the whole "prude and sinner" ride is (or can be often used unsincerely as) a two pronged trick to create tension and bloat "taboo content" importance. Sex is trivial to rabbits, after all. To humans is crucial since they started make it sensitive, I bet. How was it..."Alert the calm ones, and calm the alerted"?

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Timboli: I'd be surprised if much was impacted, certainly at GOG. Probably just games that have rape and child abuse and so forth ... perhaps even games that are sexist and racist etc. But are any or many of those here anyway?
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Syphon72: Who decides what's sexist or racist in a game? since nowadays anything seems to be labeled sexiest or racist. Metal Gear Solid games could actually fit those descriptions.
Interesting point. Most of all, It can't be at somebody's discretion (heavens forbid if they change ideas back and forth to add to the problem).
And they seem to be mindless about it, also. Some content (hello Meryl) is here to be condemned, not to be promoted, and that's not the same, unless you actually want your viewers and/or yourself to be in denial and erase the topic from media (even regardless of how is treated or how explicitly is depicted). The last "strategy" is arguably the one that leads to issues being a danger in real life, since many don't think they exist.

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Xeshra: I mean, males are dying in countless wars like flies in a cowshed with way lower life-expectancy worldwide and this is apparently perfectly acceptable for them, but if a few of their "preferred species" will ever become harmed, in rare cases even killed, because of mainly hostile males (not sure they ever said there was a hostile woman involved)...
Booh! Keep those sexist attacks out of this topic! Plus we're talking about real people now
Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob
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Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob
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Fonzer: Think that mastercard also has a law saying no unconsensual body mutilation. So gore but why are they all treating fictional character as real people when none of them need any consent since they are not real living beings.
Edit it's called nonconsensual mutilation of body parts.
Didn't check my english
Very wierd considering how frequent this is as a dramatic scene in battles. The Empire should not strike back, then. Luke has to keep his hand! (Luke does not even have an Id.. "Luke does not exist!")

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Catventurer: If you read the PC Gamer article that UnashamedWeeb posted (See Post #13), all of the games that were censored specifically involved incest porn. Nobody is going to take to the streets to protest the censorship of incest porn, so this is just an easy win and sets a precedent where the credit card companies get to decide for us what we are and are not allowed to play.
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dick1982: NGL , would be wild if gamers marched out on the streets with slogans like "Gimme Wincest Porn or give me d@ath!"
Well, when we say it's disquieting that the boundaries between fiction and reality are blurred when (portions of) the public reacts (without thinking enough) we're implying also this. In fact, it kinda happened, but related to actual crime offences, not depictions!! It happened that pedophiles tried to jump on the success of civil rights movements and say "ours is just a different kind of love, let us be". Nice try, they failed. Let's not put all different things into the same bag, let's not simplify.

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MarkoH01: Just wanted to add that I totally agree with what Gersen and Cavalary said here.
It does not matter at all what the game is about as long as it is a game and as long as there is no REAL person is in any type or form harmed in making or playing it. I would not play a "kill the cats" simulator game ... but I would also not want to ban it. Let people DECIDE what they want to PLAY.
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SultanOfSuave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na2QdKpoY9k
It's a special breed called a Shroedinger cat. You can't say it existed (both in and out of the clip) since the specially sealed "kitty stomping box" is not opened. It's a doubly fictional beast! Fantastic Beasts and where not to find them.

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Shmacky-McNuts: ... should have been kept on the site and the option to borrow them ...
I see what you're doing here!

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dick1982: >www.youtube.com/embed/ONRIxuJmQWw

power of nippon gods and anime sanctioned VISA at least.
I nearly read "power of nipple gods"...

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Chacranajxy: We also hashed this exact same brand of stupidity out 20-30 years ago with video game violence, only to have essentially everything eventually reveal that *shock* there's no causal link between video game violence and real life violence.

Hopefully we can speedrun this latest bit of stupidity, but it's just annoying that just as it feels like we're digging out of the current ideological horse shit that's weighed down games for the last 10 years, now we've got this to potentially contend with. It never ends.
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BanditKeith2: In fact the only link adult games have to the real life thing is studies shown much like the violent video game matter when there is easy enough access to it.. crime of that kind is way down.. but when a place doesn't have such content or its very hard to get .. well then those times of crimes go way up .. So in truth the only link/correlation to such media is a postive one as it keeps such bad things in the virtual/digital space rather then the real world
Well, I'm not sure about that. It can be a vent outlet but it also an incidental inspiration, depending on real-life intentions and situations that were already there, so I'd argue that their contribution to crimes is a +x-x= net zero

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lupineshadow: I'm getting an anti-censorship vibe from replies to my post.

Let me respond in the extreme by saying that a game that allows you to recreate Auschwitz is not ok.

So where do you draw the line?

There is a line. Just because you believe that games should not be censored - yes they should be if they cross the line.

And I hate to use Auschwitz as the example here because of the Palestinian genocide but there are red lines (that used to be enforced by national legislation and still are depending on the country)

I promise you that in the 90s or 00s these incest games would not have been sold at GameStop or ElectronicsBoutique or any similar game shop.
First, they're (again) fiction, so no concentration camp is happening while you are playing with a non-existent one.

Second, the line is between reality or at least reality-impacting (with proof) material or not. Unless you want to be charged with manslaughter (and not in-game!) when you run on pedestrians on Carmageddon.

Third, we already have such thing at home, just not literally, or in very not graphic games. When you just explore ideas, everything is fine, everything is an indirect reference to things and events both good or bad, and everything can be considered disturbing. Not enough of a reason to sanitise your art to death.
What are these games that can let you run a (comedic?!) oppressive regime on pixel people?
I'd say: Dungeon Keeper/Overlord, Lemmings (if played in a certain way at least, ehe) Rimworld I think. All of them non specific. But if someone is bent on finding inspiration for crimes, then they will find it, as they could find it everywhere. Then there's the more literal Wolfenstein 2. You're against them, but they're still on screen, and these campaigners do not seem to care much for context.
They actually were on store shelves. EA published C&C Generals back then , a satyrical/slightly comedic take on..future wars in Middle East, for example (its mold was the same as Westwood games, and someone raised a brow; it was I think 2005, real troops were in Afghanistan back then)

Fourth, to speak of Middle East, what are we making a fuss about? Fictional mass suffering? When we have a wide array of real one ongoing? That's the ultimate point of this: so much ire about art, so much less about actual people being undeniably harmed.

Lastly, it's an Alabaman Horse so you can get used to far more stringent moral codes..
Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob
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dick1982: they're not from USA
Correct. A lot of this in general is actually sourced from the UK/Australia.
hey GOG the solution is simple just implement internal gog virtual currency for buying games. call it "gog vbucks". then when someone pays with these payment providers you sell the currency not the actual game. then sell the game for the internal "gog vbucks"

if the vanguard&blackrock mafia want to take a loss and cut you from the payment providers make your own payment provider THAT will work on steam and epic and whatever else. infact the most clear solution is to make your own payment provider that is not censored, who manages to make this will make trillions, you can even stop making and selling games, who cares anymore, everyone will want the uncensored payment provider that doesn't suck balls.

yeah I know

just the fact that none has the courage to do this tells you everything about the world
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paladin181: What laws have they broken? I definitely don't agree with what they're doing, but it seems like they are within their right to do so. At least in the US where corporations are people and money is speech.
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tremere110: I'm this specific instance, they are within their right* to censor things. They have flagrantly broken the law in regards to anti-trust laws and have been investigated by the DOJ for stifling competition.

*Not really. If you maintain an oligopoly by destroying competition through tacit collusion with your supposed competition - then the power to censor derived through such law-breaking isn't really a right anymore because you wouldn't have had that power in the first place if you were fair.
Thanks for the clarification. I was in a hurry so didn't post any details.

But yes, the Japan action is not because of this specific instance, but anti-trust vs VISA for unfair competition and market manipulation. Japan FTC has applied sanctions on them.

Still, they are the first to actually start doing something about the unimaginable power VISA and MC wield.
Post edited July 25, 2025 by idbeholdME
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marcob: Booh! Keep those sexist attacks out of this topic! Plus we're talking about real people now
In case you did not notice: Real people and companies are attacking and patronizing other real people (gamers) because of non real sexist game content as a matter of certain "real mostly sexist stuff" that could happen out of non real games.

Where to draw the line? We are mixing up everything and ultimately a entire cake is being baked out of it.
Post edited July 25, 2025 by Xeshra
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marcob: Booh! Keep those sexist attacks out of this topic! Plus we're talking about real people now
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Xeshra: In case you did not notice: Real people and companies are attacking and patronizing other real people (gamers) because of non real sexist game content as a matter of certain "real mostly sexist stuff" that could happen out of non real games.

Where to draw the line? We are mixing up everything and ultimately a entire cake is being baked out of it.
No, you're stirring up the pot: drawings are drawings and laws against rape are laws against rape.
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reseme: hey GOG the solution is simple just implement internal gog virtual currency for buying games. call it "gog vbucks". then when someone pays with these payment providers you sell the currency not the actual game. then sell the game for the internal "gog vbucks"

if the vanguard&blackrock mafia want to take a loss and cut you from the payment providers make your own payment provider THAT will work on steam and epic and whatever else. infact the most clear solution is to make your own payment provider that is not censored, who manages to make this will make trillions, you can even stop making and selling games, who cares anymore, everyone will want the uncensored payment provider that doesn't suck balls.

yeah I know

just the fact that none has the courage to do this tells you everything about the world
It's just a big work and not their business to take. Save for real (real!) extremes, intermediate service providers (including IPs actually and Internet itself) should do their job and be neutral. The fact they submit to national laws is already enough, sometimes even "too much" as is implicitly in conflict with their global nature, but that's an historical problem awaiting a strong solution, and way out of our scope.
Post edited July 25, 2025 by marcob