I was disagreeing with the line "lurkers are anti-game and hurt whatever team that they are on." Lurking only hurts wolves if people go after lurkers.

My question is: why would the number of people fleeing to Nashua have any bearing on anything?

The possible wolf benefit is more about taking advantage of a chance to make a townie look more scummy (and therefore easier to lynch), not so much about this particular piece of data.

I was questioning why you'd assume I started with the knowledge, when you talked about my timing feeling off. Thus, my talk of shade and fishing.

Maybe the version you presented is accurate, maybe not. To me, it felt like you were spinning some more narrative.

You asked for thoughts, and I gave you some thoughts.

I think you've been doing quite a bit of fishing. I haven't decided whether I think you are a townie fishing for reactions and scum, or whether you are scum and fishing for something to use, but either way I think you're fishing.

Here's a couple more thoughts, to offer a little more to your previous question:
-Bler feels quite town to me. There would have to be a pretty epic melt down somewhere before I'll vote him Today.
-I'm not particularly interested in lynching Lift or Brasas.

Smart means he doesn't turn off his brain after coming up with one possible solution. To me, at least, someone suddenly going "BTW, extra things could happen, but I don't know (m)any details" could mean they knew about it from the start, OR it could mean they just found out about it. Again, if there had been any acknowledgement that maybe I did "bring it up as soon as possible", I think that would have been the end of it.

Instead, it was
"It's my personal expectation that if you were specially informed of Events being a thing that you would bring it up as soon as possible; your timing seemed off"

How could my timing be off, when it was exactly in line with his personal expectation? The unspoken assumption was that I didn't meet his personal expectation.

If he didn't know anything about it at all, then why did my timing feel off for not revealing it as soon as possible?

It isn't that I expected him to know the right answer. It is that I expect town!him not to completely ignore another likely solution, when that solution would have been exactly what he'd expect a player to do. He seemed to skip "did it right" in favor of "did it wrong".

My interpretation of his remarks would be better phrased as "47% of the players in this game were not interested in voting/killing any player in particular" (as opposed to "actively don't want to kill anyone at all", which is No Lynch). As you stated, otherwise we'd be at No Lynch right from Day start, or else someone could vote and promptly unvote in order to advance the game stage (by crossing and recrossing that 50% marker line). Since no one except me actually wants to check this mess, I'm planning to drop it and move on; further reference to the mechanic is just filler until/unless people are willing to actually test it.

Go Forth and Be Awesome!

Good luck with everything! I hope life slows down enough for you soon to be able to play again.

Neutral:
R wyrm -
R fox -
stan


Had wyrm town to start, as noted. Still think he is town, and yet for the life of me I can't fathom WTF he's doing. Among other issues he claimed to WIFOM the NK, seemed to be the implication, but at least to me he doesn't seem to be trying to be lock-town in any other fashion. Also messing with my juju, jerk. ;)

Not sure what to make of either end of his squabble with Nacho that I think is just two townies nitpicking each other over zilch? But in the bizarre universe where the vote came down to Wyrm v. Nacho today I’d probably...well, that's not going to happen. So I'll keep it a surprise.

fox is TLDR decent start then…not much. Stan is mostly just tone-reading, admittedly, but I can buy the frustrated townie thing trapped in the nuthouse somewhat.


Questionable (I think pretty much exactly in this order from least worrying to most):
Lift (-) Maybe neutral. Even after re-read keep going back and forth here. Looks better if his reaction to Nacho is excused as OMGUS, maybe? On the downside seems to be keeping a narrow view of the field and is RPing a lot in the 14 posts he's made, so pretty hard to tell if he's trying to solve and doesn't have time to look wider, or just picking his topics with care to look busy while not really making hay. But, uh, thanks for the meat?

Doc I'm just not as comfortable with her as others seem to be. That said, I still think she's moderately likely to resolve through play so not likely to be a D1 vote for me barring an obvious slip.

Quad : reminded a bit of this game. Don't think he resolves himself for me short of some confirmable claim or a sudden burst of play beyond what I can foresee.
R Dess - need to re-read, but doesn't feel either as chatty or as curious as I expect from him

Leaving (drum roll…and bump?)…

If no bump I have to run to store and will bbl.

Bump

Bump!

Dang ninjas!

drealmer is my alt

-__-

I don't think I asked you anything...? -oh wait you replaced out lol jk


Someone talk to me?

Heh, realized I'd best leave, so only waited one minute. Thanks for the 3-min and 4-min bumps, though :) ANyway...

Bottom:

Ix -- Don't like a lot of what he's doing in the limited number of things he's done. While maybe my initial read was the worst-possible read of his motives, his first and/or 2nd posts are still 100% absolutely a deliberate misrepresentation. There's zero way what he says happened, happened. Kind of like my tiff with Brasas, there was at least one innocent explanation for what I was asking about, but Brasas embraced the challenge head-on and Ix just seems to be ducking or speaking in the vaguest terms possible ("I read the thread").

You do not, as town, suddenly appear in the thread, start reading/skimming/whatever, and then 30ish minutes later come to the conclusion that you should toss your deepest-held convictions (#450 "My mafia mindset absolutely HATES no lynch!") because of some flavor or some random quote yogs' character made.

And the longer he goes without clarifying, it's just hard for me to see past that.

Also really don't like the "wanted to see who would jump on the low-hanging fruit!" and "clearly stalled at 3 votes because scum are afeared!" bit. The latter is admittedly just annoying but the former is borderline nonsensical.

It's Day 1, and he's not a newb. He knows people get lynched D1 (at least here) for reasons that are basically nil, and yet he dangles a reason just to see who bites? It's the classic "adalia" problem, if you do something dumb or scummy (esp. D1) when there's nothing else on the table the votes you do draw aren't even alignment indicative.
The no lynch vote is not the problem for me. At any case, at some point in this move, if he means he did it intentionally as he says, you're picking up the righteous anger people, the people who'd rather see your flip than no-flip, etc. Might be scum in there, might not.

@Nacho's (#491) I get what you're saying, but remember there are different levels of wolfing. Ix is not a top tier wolf (nor am I, so this isn't insult, just analysis). We don't use the "derpclear" phrase here traditionally, but if he is wolf I think that's effectively what he's going for - come in late with many eyes on you and don't know how to look helpful, so instead you go for harmless and hope people forget about you until you've got your feet set or have lurked along to D4. That can absolutely work here, and has. Trying to look helpful and failing is a riskier tack, especially if you really haven’t actually read much and aren’t a natural wolf.

Could he just be derping as town? Sure. But for me this is far and away the easy vote right now.



No data:
Sushi - starting to be a problem imo
agent-slot

Hiyas! What's up?

About time someone asked you about that.

So in simplest terms, at 7:03 PM all posts 740-744 read say "7 hours ago." This was yesterday, so I could be off on whether it said 8 hours or whatever, but all posts show the same timestamp. Follow that far?

So if at 7:05 post 740 ticks over to say "8 hours", while post 744 still says "7 hours" we know they're at least one minute apart. At 7:10 post #740 still says 7 hours, so we know the two posts are at least 5 minutes apart. So we keep taking measurements.

Post 744 ticks over to say 8 hours somewhere between 7:32 and 7:38 pm pacific. So the maximum time between posts is 34 minutes because 740 might have ticked as early as 7:04, and 744 ticked over as late as 7:38. The minimum time between posts is roughly 28 minutes, because the first post might have ticked over (to make the results "different") at 7:05, while the second post might have ticked over (to make them "same" again) at 7:33.

Does that make any more sense?

Forget the agent/drealmer part (posts 741 & 742) as I thought that might be a useful additional marker for the interim time between Ix's two posts but apparently it's just adding confusion, and isn't a necessary detail for just looking at Ix's posts 740/744.

The sky. Werewolves. Paranoia.

How do you assess Ix's distaste for isos? What do you think this post says about Wyrm? etc etc Playing in your own game is fun! It just tends to end with riots.

(emphasis added)

@stanari - Just a point of clarification. From your other posts, I assume 'them' refers to Ix. When I read this originally, I thought 'them' referred to the persons who voted. Would you mind clarifying?

Re-read all of today since I had just been kinda bouncing around wanted to see it all together. Two things:

1) Re: what I said above: R Tammy - admittedly, I think I need to watch her more carefully. Like the tone and the approach a lot, and maybe not scrutinizing the details enough.

EBWOP - I meant that I was not scrutinizing the details of what she was saying, not that she was not scrutinizing details.


2) @Lift - pretend I've written nothing you've written. Explain the distinction why Brasas did not warrant a single vote on the no lynch issue, even in early D1/RVS, and Ix does now? I concede they're not the same, but on re-read this did feel a little weird to me.

On Ix, I honestly think he's just flailing. While we don't call it "Iso" here historically (just "re-read") it's hardly a foreign concept for a player to utilize regardless of alignment. Most players re-read something or somebody, esp. over-night. Wyrm/JMich/HSL/dedo/Krypsyn/etc. all players you'd be shocked if they weren't busy with a re-read. I do some, cristi/trent do some, etc. Pretty normal.

Slight tangent perhaps, but here was a telling moment in the all-scum game:

Ix jumps onto Yogs wagon as vote #4 (L-5) as the first serious push out of RVS, and yet...
5 posts later he talks about unvoting because...something?

I'm a jerk I know, but I don't expect scum!Ix to be smooth. Based on wrangling with him for multiple days in that game I expect him to not explicitly slip but instead make little tactical mistakes, and when pressed deflect and fade. That was the game I swore on D2 or early D3 that I would eat my hat if he was town.

I think he's deflecting and fading here too.

In this community we often lynch the visible "problem." Deflection and hiding ain't a bad way to go. Admittedly it worked better than normal that game because of the multiple alliances, but the NKs were the obvious threats (JMich, HSL, Yogs, Krypsyn all too good to lynch even with yogs on the ropes just a little) and the lynches were a combo of lurkers with major slips (P1na, leonard) a visible target (adalia), and trent for going all-in to try and save Leonard.

Still have that hat, btw.


On the wyrm/Nacho issue, I confess that argument quickly turns to noise for me. I feel like it's two people just being stubborn and talking around each other - both ultimately right in their own point and trying to eke out a technical victory at the sake of pursuing clarity or consensus.

I have no opinion on either etc or etc.

Sigh, stayed later than intended. Off to bed. Have one project to take care of this week that might be quick or painful (federal website data submission), but will hopefully have more concise but frequent content tomorrow. ;)

Just a hair more context. In the first link, where Ix votes, he's responding to Trent who was vote #2. In the interim flub (his teammate) had voted #3.

Was always curious but never asked if the real reason Ix got nervous about his vote and added the hedging comments was because he'd seen flub's vote and got nervous they were back-to-back on what he would've assumed was a townie's wagon.

@cristi - you were Ix's teammate in that game. How do you assess his scum game?

Ix feels like he's got a case of the "I'm nervous and twitchy and I don't know what to do with myself" in those two posts but I have less of that sense here. (Actually - could you name Ix's scumgames? Might not read them all now but for future reference.)

Tangentally: yog feels a lot more engaged there so maybe present state is actually a good sign. Hmm.(Standard disclaimers about me being bad at meta tonereading apply.) Possibly, yes, I do see a bit of deflection here but that's not the predominant mood I got. Noise, pretty much yeah.