Yeah, that occurred to me, though my post was about 2 hours after yours, so it had already been quiescent for quite a while.

Different mix of geographic origin than recent games, anyway. 'Bout all the analysis I can offer from my seat, but it's the main reason I think I can't tinker with the deadline as a pressure point like I did in the asylum game (like 90% US/Canada IIRC).

Fuse just blew again. Furnace has been out about 2 weeks, and the fuse can't support 2 space heaters (in the 2 BR) plus the bathroom light all being on at once ><

I am guessing it's cold where you are if you are running space heaters? I stopped using space heaters when I was using one and it sparked at the outlet. I saw a flash of light and the space heather went off, looked to where it was plugged in and all I saw was a big black stain on the wall from the outlet sparking. Stopped using space heaters after that :)

Eh, it's not even that cold (low 50s outside right now) I just live somewhere where most of the houses were built in an era when energy was cheap, so no one bothered insulating or weatherproofing anything. If it's 50 outside, it's 50 inside.

I would literally be warmer walking outside - if it weren't raining unusually hard and I weren't trying to study and get motivated for this interview I'm not actually all that motivated for :)

Does it end badly for the people, or does it end badly for Town? The first is imho entirely acceptable, as long as it helps prevent the second. The way I see it, right now is the only day not even Town PR(s) know anything about others, so can safely speculate and push without giving anything away to scum, while scum can't. So the more meaningful interactions we have this day, the more scum will have to also participate in order to not stand out, and the more chance they have to slip up, or at least give us a start of something to analyze on day 2.
(I do hear you about voting being a possibly more effective version about the same, and will get around to that myself, but meh, I'd at least want to see some of those interactions from everyone before voting!)

The same thing, of course, also goes for Darko, JMich and Hunter. Step it up, please!

A bit of both. If one acts scummy to lure people out, you can't be sure if one is pushing for their lynch because they are town that saw something scummy or if they are scum who saw an opportunity to mislynch. So even though there is a wagon to analyze on Day 2, the analysis cannot show anything. So we end up playing our towniest and try to avoid undue attention.

I do need to take a better look at the matrix and see if any roles can actually draw any conclusions by what role they have, though at first sight it does seem unlikely. Best one can have is to narrow it down to two possibilities, though it's still not enough to formulate a plan.

My monster post at Nacho just got eaten... F Microsoft...

I'm always town nice.
Here I (re)wrote you a play :)

ACT 1
Scene 1
Brasas ponders

Why, this new fella sure is inquisite
How quaint... but wait...
"help prevent me from drawing faulty conclusions based on the matrix"
Such speculation would itself be faulty... unless...

What can he know?
Such slip can be angelic or demonic...

Dear sir, may we converse perchance?

Scene 2
gogtrial enters

trial:
Just heard a wondrous tale...
Of woods and wolves, of fear and courage...
And such examples for our times...
How I loved Marie's poise... and
"I do find it interesting how various people react to me..."

Brasas:
(to himself)
Of all the role models Bler? The smurfiest for sure...
[Also the yummiest... ;)]

@trial
Beware such simple fables, for nothing is at it seems

Scene 3
Nacho enters

Nacho:
@Brasas
Why molest him so? And why so cheerful?
Thou seemst ready to pounce...
Have thee candy and a whitevan?

Brasas:
@Nacho
Just jumpy...
He might be plotting my demise...
He might have hindered our salvation...

Nacho:
@Brasas
It seems we must part ways...

[i]"Setupfishing, rolefishing, either takes a very special mindset when coming from scum in their very very first post and Trial doesn't really look like the type who would take such a big leap of faith right off the bat, even for the scumteam."
[/i]

END ACT 1

So, as I am looking at trial and seeing a cerebral type (likes Bler for chrissakes! :) ), yet also willing to boldly jump places - like into this very game, after reading Oakwood no less! Nacho sure can't see a hamster willing to jump at his eyes. Occam has an explanation for that blindspot, and it's not how Nacho loves to protect noobs from mislynches... it's about it being his eyes, not ours...


ACT 2
Scene 1
Almost all, from here onwards

Brasas:
Where have you met?
Nacho:
I just grok new players.
Brasas:
Now I shake...
Now I tremble...
Trial:
I repent my fishing!
Where are the others?
Nacho:
@Brasas
I smell old blood spilled
@Trial
Do you like me?
Trial:
You are the noblest, most upstanding
And a keen mind at that

Scene 2
More arrive

Nacho:
@hunter, Drealmer
My buddy is innocent!
"There's a significant difference between role speculation and setup speculation, don't you think?"

Brasas:
@Trial
I find thee most conniving...
@Nacho
I find thee most disturbed...
What strange power dost he have on you?

[Brasas drops mic]

END ACT 2

TL:DR You overreacted by going character defense on him based on nothing much. Also you kind of contradict yourself on fishing, first setup fishing and role fishing are the same - when noobs don't do either - then they are significantly different when you are subtly (or not) advising him to beware others' questions. And you throw him a softball, perhaps hoping that mr "paying attention to others reactions to him" will distance himself from you. But he kind of fumbles the bussing. Because either he played it straight buddy instead of bus buddy - or, IMO more likely, he did distance but so filled with straight faced sarcasm that it verges on satire. And the problem with that being, such a satirical mindset is more evidence for a character that can indeed jump into this game (and at our eyes), decide to model Bler to be read as towny - up to mentioning statistics notes in an offhand comment - and overestimate the importance of the setup for scum. And at this point, I'm even starting to seriously consider some of that came from him being scum PR, which looking at the matrix (see trial, this is example of "good" setup fishing) has to be the roleblocker. So he was most likely fishing for column A versus row 2.


So Nacho... history repeats itself? You didn't have much time to coach him N0? Is it from guilt you are overcompensating?

I don't blame you for Oakwood Nacho...

And yes, I'm trying to push such buttons so you slip more. That's how nice I am :)


@all
I guess the above lays my current working theory neatly enough. Feel free to poke holes into it please.
I hope you can guess where my vote will end this D1. I'm out of RVS.
unvote


PS: The first pass was better :(
F... Microsoft again

The attempts at fixing Day 1 often end badly for the game design. If a mod tries to introduce mechanisms to make Day 1 more playable, he has to take great care not to imbalance the game. One tried and not-broken mechanism to change Day 1 is adding a Night 0 - which this game has. The effect of that depends on what power roles are present. If Town has no investigative power roles, a N0 strengthens scum, because they can talk beforehand. If Town has investigative power roles, N0 gives them something to work with, which balances the talking-capability of scum. In any case it changes how Day 1 works a bit.

So, your assumption that this is a day that not even Town PR(s) know anything is not necessarily true. The question is: did you forget that there was a N0? Or did you not know what that meant? Or did you just pretend to have forgotten that a N0 existed, because you talked to scum buddies in N0 and wanted to pretend that you weren't active in N0? (Yea, a bit convoluted. But convoluted thinking is the WIFOM-y core of Mafia)

@brasas: nice long post. Even if a bit convoluted too. So, your top pick is Nacho, then why do you just unvote and not vote him?
EDIT: Yay for not having to wait 10 minutes! :-D

Gaah! I did not realize the implications of what it meant, in that I assumed scum was allowed to talk beforehand, but completely overlooked the possibility that town would also have actions. >.<
Though, looking at the matrix, we'd only have actual actions in 1/3rd of the possible setups.
(I guess I outed myself to scum as not being a cop (unless they believe it was a contrived way to throw them off my scent? In which case I can only wish them much success and encouragement following that train of thought), while all y'all have to decide what type of newbie I am. I figure that explaining my inexperience like this stands a higher chance of convincing you of the truth than silence in the vain hope that scum didn't see the (luckily minor) implications, so here I am.

@Brasas: FWIW, I suspect about half your posts are too oblique for me to actually get half the points you're making. I hope that when you start actually voting, you'll be willing to explain your thoughts a bit more clearly so I stand a chance of following them and deciding if they convince me enough to also vote.

Glad I decided to come back and still do my usual daily post instead of leaving it for tomorrow. :)

I did not follow that game. I got the context from comments at RW during Oakwood though.
So my question was kind of oblique, as I was unsure if Wyrm (or anyone else really) also saw trial / Nacho as scummy.

Iknowrite?

So now you have my full plot. Further thoughts?

heh

And ain't that funny? If you ask me the setup confusion was the only thing we had going our way...

Good post.

And a sense of humor! :) I also like how you positioned the Trent diversion.


any chance of a mod approved edit for my typos and mis formating? Pretty please? They freaking hurt...

I want to see what happens.

My top is trial. (pun intended)
Why else would Nacho be all in... (pun unintended)

I guess if you like convoluted theories maybe scum|Nacho is fake buddying to town|trial for the mislynch...

Also appreciated the N0 comments. I noticed no NK and assumed... I take it the usual is scum chat and power abilities but no NK then?

Good post. If I'm right you do learn fast, as the above post proves, in its WIFOMy glory.
A couple of games and you'll be quite effective IMO.
Roling scum PR on a first game with open(ish) setup is terrible luck.

Still, I suspect even my oblique implications are registering perfectly for you. :)
But I would be amazed if I convince you to vote yourself... that's Yog territory...

PS: @all As both Lift and trial allude to, I know I can be oblique. I apologize for any inconvenience.

It tends to end badly for town as what most tend to do is act in a scummy manner to draw scum out (making themselves an easy target and hoping scum rush in to lynch them, but town will do the same so it's a moot point) and usually get lynched for it. Now scum have every right to have voted them because of how the player was behaving and it makes it hard to analyze people's behavior toward the player since he was basically lying and that's never good.

Voting will create reactions and interactions from players. The most powerful tool we have is our vote, letting it sit doing nothing means just that, nothing. Do you want to do nothing or something in this game, if you want to do something you will have to vote.

Speaking of voting, @Brasas if you believe Nacho is scum why have you not voted?

@Nacho is your vote on Brasas an RVS vote or a legit vote?

Yes, that would be the common way. Or at least it's the way I would run it as a mod, if I would decide to throw in a N0. A nightkill in N0 would just be mean, since it would deprive one player from playing at all. So I think it's customary not to allow a N0 NK.

Let me know your conclusion, please. I've pored over it, and it looks to me like no one can be sure of the setup this early (though scum only need one non-vanilla PR to know (except tracker) since they already have a reference point).

This looks like a data point. I wonder what it points to.

Nacho doesn't taste quite like his scum game from last game. The extra peppers do not preclude him being scum.

I strike your theory in my head, and it resonates without shattering. I'm not sure if the tone is right, though; I don't know the song well enough.

Nothing, if no one is willing to set shoulder to wagon.

It depends on the game and the mod. Here, we don't lead with a NK so that we don't have a player sign up and never get to play. Abilities might or might not be usable; mostly N0 has been chat-only, but Bler's hospital game allowed for cops to use their ability (poor CSPVG).

The others make a good point: why no vote? You've got a mouth, and you've got money.

Yeah, it does seem that way, just probabilities of a setup. Depending on night results, one could possibly have the specific setup, but that would also depend on the 10th role being a vanilla town, since anything else could throw a spanner in the works.