No.

Not sure why you thought what I said needed amended. Common sense would dictate most people are speculating to themselves. Why would I tell people not to think?

Okay. "What role do you think the 10th person in the setup has?" is a hop, skip, AND a jump away from "could all special townies please stand up so they can get to work?". The first makes sense from a town perspective, especially when Trial explained that part of his process came from watching Oakwood where he thought setup speculation played into a win. The latter, no.

Any discussion involving roles has the distinct possibility for someone to let slip they have a role, why even chance it on Day 1? PM and personal role discussions are two of my biggest pet peeves on Day 1.

As for the no lynching question, I'd recommend browsing through this thread. There used to be one specifically devoted to no lynching that I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'll lool back and find it when I'm at a computer.

The first problem with no lynching on the first day is that it takes all sense of urgency out of the first day's lynch. Typically, the way you catch weaker scum is by pressuring them and making them slip up; the way to catch stronger scum is by subtler slip ups or their interactions with their partners. Starting out at the beginning of the day knowing that it won't end in a lynch (or being able to push for a no lynch for theory reasons) means that scum have nothing to worry about; they can sit back and push for no lynch and they don't really have to do anything else since no one is dying.

The second has to do with strong players in the game. If the scum team is afraid if a certain player in the game, you'd like to give them as much time to work as possible, right? No lynching reduces the number of days they have to work; it also means that they will likely be dead before they have the chance to mislynch and readjust later.

The thirs reason, which will be rushed because I don't have much time left, is the numbers game. As it stands, we have three opportunities to lynch scum I'm order to win the game (assuming 2 scum). If a doctor or a role blocker blocks a kill, this number jumps to 4. If we no lynch now, the doctor would have to block 2 kills or the vig would have to shoot twice in order for us to be able to get to 4 town controlled kills before we lose.

I also wanted to mention @ Trent that there's no reason not to make the number of scum clear now as opposed to later, but I'll get into that more later.

If people would just leave it at making the number of scum clear now it would be fine, but it's like a dog with a bone. Once you give it to them they can't leave it alone, so once we start discussing setup or roles people just can't leave it alone. If this was a completely open setup it would be totally different.

The I should be doing work vote count:

Drealmer (3): Trent, Wyrm, Lift
Lift (2): Brasas, Drealmer
Brasas (1): Nacho


Not voting (5): YMich, Trial, Hunter, Darko

Maj = 6, Drealmer closest to being smurfed into the Smurfmatic Smurfmotabulator at S-3.

Deadline is now Thursday 11/17 at 1:05 PM (pacific).

Let me know if your vote is not where you want it.

I prefer general setup speculation to get it out of the way; makes the most sense to talk about it when there's not much else to discuss instead of letting it get in the way when more important things are being talked about, but you're right that it's better to do this in certain meta's as opposed to others.

Glad we agree on that.

About role discussions: while I generally agree with trent on early role discussions being bad (and PM comparisions being even worse), in this case I also see Nacho's argument that talking about the 10-th role doesn't reveal anything dangerous. However, I think it also doesn't reveal anything useful, since it's just speculation for all but one person (and the mods, who don't count). So why do it?

The useful piece of information gained from setup speculation surrounding the tenth role in the game is its alignment, which changes play considerably; my first response wasn't to comment on it at all until drealmer's "yeah it might be town or scum or third party!" paranoia surfaced.

Exactly what I said(or rather meant to convey) when gogtrial asked if I didn't think role speculation was inadvisable.

~15 seconds, plus or minus a margin of error of about 5 seconds.

It's hard to play Town without having played before! I don't have much of anything to relate tone to, so feel I can only help town win by observing actual actions and drawing conclusions from those, but I don't want to prematurely share for fear of changing patterns through my observations. (When I do have something to share, like the above, I now first have to wonder if I'm making another newbie mistake which would be helpful to scum, before daring to post.) And meanwhile I'm also the big unknown for the rest of town, without concrete things to help make it obvious I'm on the same side, and fearing that while lots of focus goes to me, actual scum happily lurks in the background. >.< (So I'm at least happy to see how various reactions to me give rise to secondary reactions. Still, far too many players not really engaging here!)

Anyway, happy to chat and help make it clear that I'm one of the smurfy smurfs.


Speaking of lack of engagement, I find the last several hours of back and forth exceedingly lacking in useful input, so let's go out on a limb here! *casts about for a target* Ah yes:
Hi there, fellow smurf! Despite presumably living in this same village for all our lives, I find myself somewhat lacking in information about you. What I'm noticing is that you mostly keep quoting full posts from others without snipping out irrelevant parts, and then only writing a single paragraph in response yourself (making your posts seem longer than they actually are), and that these posts seem to be mostly superficial or meta-ish, and that you're also not really commenting on any of the back and forths happening between our fellow smurfs. Sure, you engaged Weedy, but that's about it. Does your name necessarily imply that you always stick to the shadows like that in all your ventures, or is this game different and are you thinking deep thoughts? For example, what do you think about all the back and forth about my humble self? Did I make an honest newbie mistake there?

About 75%-80% of my responses and posts are done from my phone, and editing posts from the phone is a giant pain in the ass so for my sanity I leave posts as they are.

As to you asking about what the possible 10th person could be in this setup I did not see the need to comment as it had already been addressed by several others and their responses were basically what I would have said. I saw no need to pile onto you with more of the same. Also as much as I dislike discussing role information on Day 1 I didn't find your question a scummy one to make me place my vote on you. It seems most new players like to address either no lynching or roles on Day 1 and then they get the scoop from several people as to why it is viewed as a bad idea to talk about it. If I was more familiar with hiw you played I would have probably voted you for role fishing, but I let it go as a newbie mistake.

As for my name as I pointed out in the signup thread, Shadow is the name of my Husky (her baby pic is my avatar). I will also say that Day 1 is my least favorite day. There's no real info to go on and all we do is sit around and accuse each other based on gut feeling for the most part. Sadly there's not much we can do to change that, several people have tried and it usually ends bad for them. The best strategy I have seen (this is my opinion) is what wyrm suggested, we get the vote count up on someone to make them feel the pressure and see how they react.

Mod-update: change in my schedule means I have to move the D1 deadline, but I will likely cease making continuous small adjustments.


Deadline is now Thursday 11/17 at 11:45 AM (pacific) but I don't anticipate further shifts. Will be off-line from noonish until evening that day it looks like.

I think you killed the thread :P