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General discussionMafia GAME THREAD: Smurfia! The smurfiest mafia game ever (#43)(432 posts)solved(432 posts)solved
(432 posts)solved
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 28, 2016
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trentonlf: I didn't know he was telling the truth, I knew it was possible he was telling the truth. And I was not going to lynch a possible town role. Obviously you did not feel the same or you would have unvoted, but your concern was busing your scum buddy to get town cred.
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Nachomamma8: I didn't make a post after drealmer claimed since I wasn't around; am not even sure what you're trying to accuse me of here. Why didn't you vote someone else after drealmer claimed?
There was only about an hour left to vote when I unvoted drealmer because I believed his claim and the rest of the wagons were people I did not think deserved my vote so I just didn't vote again at all.

You had time to remove your vote after drealmer claimed, you were still online when he did.
Posted November 28, 2016
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gogtrial34987: Trent & Nacho: Could you please both lay out why the other one must be scum? I want to make certain I'm not overlooking any arguments. (I can easily imagine an "Oh yeah, duh! That clinches it!" revelation.)

Also, I'm assuming at this point that you're both certain I'm town, right? Out of curiosity - and as far as you remember - what was the point you reached that conclusion?
Well, after Hunter flipped Gargamel, I started glancing back through the game, and trent's behavior compared to everyone else's stood out to me the most; the sum of his play yesterday equals "hey, I think Nacho is scum! Oh, you guys think Hunter is scum? Okay! Hunter is scum!". I think that his vote at the beginning of the day should also be a pretty major red flag; my guess for trent's strategy for a win today is to get me lynched before I had a chance to talk. As town, he has a gut read, sure, but there's no reason not to give me a chance to make a closing argument before he votes me and risks losing the game; it's the last day and losing because you didn't get everyone a chance feels pretty horrible. But as scum, the longer he gives me the chance to talk, the more I'm able to prove myself as town, the more I'm able to bring out the case on him, the more he has to fabricate just to stay afloat, and I think that our exchange today demonstrates him struggling to stay afloat.

For example, when I was in the middle of making my case on him, bringing up quite a few reasons why I thought he could be scum, he zeroed in on the "why do you think I should have claimed?" part which wasn't something I said, and didn't manage to answer my question by the end of it.

Lately, he's resorted to accusing me of voting drealmer after he claimed (didn't happen), and accusing me of not unvoting after drealmer claimed because I wanted to bus my buddy for towncred (assuming I was going to be around after I said I didn't have any time is gross).

I have some other things to do, but I'll be back tonight to simplify the case and point out what I think are the most compelling points I have on trent; hopefully he answers some of them by then.
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Nachomamma8: I didn't make a post after drealmer claimed since I wasn't around; am not even sure what you're trying to accuse me of here. Why didn't you vote someone else after drealmer claimed?
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trentonlf: There was only about an hour left to vote when I unvoted drealmer because I believed his claim and the rest of the wagons were people I did not think deserved my vote so I just didn't vote again at all.

You had time to remove your vote after drealmer claimed, you were still online when he did.
It's possible the forum showed that I was online (somehow I doubt it, but keeping an open mind), but I voted on my phone and then locked the screen. I didn't check my phone again after that.
Post edited November 28, 2016 by Nachomamma8
Posted November 28, 2016
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gogtrial34987: Trent & Nacho: Could you please both lay out why the other one must be scum? I want to make certain I'm not overlooking any arguments. (I can easily imagine an "Oh yeah, duh! That clinches it!" revelation.)

Also, I'm assuming at this point that you're both certain I'm town, right? Out of curiosity - and as far as you remember - what was the point you reached that conclusion?
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Nachomamma8: Well, after Hunter flipped Gargamel, I started glancing back through the game, and trent's behavior compared to everyone else's stood out to me the most; the sum of his play yesterday equals "hey, I think Nacho is scum! Oh, you guys think Hunter is scum? Okay! Hunter is scum!". I think that his vote at the beginning of the day should also be a pretty major red flag; my guess for trent's strategy for a win today is to get me lynched before I had a chance to talk. As town, he has a gut read, sure, but there's no reason not to give me a chance to make a closing argument before he votes me and risks losing the game; it's the last day and losing because you didn't get everyone a chance feels pretty horrible. But as scum, the longer he gives me the chance to talk, the more I'm able to prove myself as town, the more I'm able to bring out the case on him, the more he has to fabricate just to stay afloat, and I think that our exchange today demonstrates him struggling to stay afloat.

For example, when I was in the middle of making my case on him, bringing up quite a few reasons why I thought he could be scum, he zeroed in on the "why do you think I should have claimed?" part which wasn't something I said, and didn't manage to answer my question by the end of it.

Lately, he's resorted to accusing me of voting drealmer after he claimed (didn't happen), and accusing me of not unvoting after drealmer claimed because I wanted to bus my buddy for towncred (assuming I was going to be around after I said I didn't have any time is gross).

I have some other things to do, but I'll be back tonight to simplify the case and point out what I think are the most compelling points I have on trent; hopefully he answers some of them by then.
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trentonlf: There was only about an hour left to vote when I unvoted drealmer because I believed his claim and the rest of the wagons were people I did not think deserved my vote so I just didn't vote again at all.

You had time to remove your vote after drealmer claimed, you were still online when he did.
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Nachomamma8: It's possible the forum showed that I was online (somehow I doubt it, but keeping an open mind), but I voted on my phone and then locked the screen. I didn't check my phone again after that.
Let me try to explain this one more time, although I am sure you will not understand it again.

You and drealmer are scum. Drealmer is the roeblocker so y'all know there is either a cop/doctor or a jailer/one shot in the game. drealmer claims jailer at the end of Day 1 and then is exposed as lying at the start of Day 2. Since Brasas flipped jailer y'all knew there was a one shot bulletproof in the game. Now you are saying it was scummy of my not to hint that I had a PR to draw the NK when if I had hinted I had a PR there was never a chance of me being the NK target.

You keep harping on me not hinting I had a PR, show me at what point you did? You are claiming you are the one shot bulletproof, when did you hint you had PR to draw the NK? You never did, so why would that standard apply to me but not you?

If I was scum I would have left my vote on drealmer on Day 1 to gain town cred, I did not because I believed his claim since I knew it was possible that there was a jailer in the game and I was not going to chance lynching a town player.

I am also not sure, as you say, how I am "struggling to stay afloat". How exactly am I struggling and what exactly am I fabricating?
Posted November 29, 2016
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trentonlf: Let me try to explain this one more time, although I am sure you will not understand it again.

You and drealmer are scum. Drealmer is the roeblocker so y'all know there is either a cop/doctor or a jailer/one shot in the game. drealmer claims jailer at the end of Day 1 and then is exposed as lying at the start of Day 2. Since Brasas flipped jailer y'all knew there was a one shot bulletproof in the game. Now you are saying it was scummy of my not to hint that I had a PR to draw the NK when if I had hinted I had a PR there was never a chance of me being the NK target.

You keep harping on me not hinting I had a PR, show me at what point you did? You are claiming you are the one shot bulletproof, when did you hint you had PR to draw the NK? You never did, so why would that standard apply to me but not you?

If I was scum I would have left my vote on drealmer on Day 1 to gain town cred, I did not because I believed his claim since I knew it was possible that there was a jailer in the game and I was not going to chance lynching a town player.

I am also not sure, as you say, how I am "struggling to stay afloat". How exactly am I struggling and what exactly am I fabricating?
Drealmer claimed jailkeeper at the end of Day 1. Your response to said claim was to go "oh man I hope there are two goons!!" and "if you are lying, there also could be a cop or a doctor!". If you are town, your top scum suspect claimed jailkeeper at the end of Day 1. You know that his claim is possible, but you don't know that it's likely. The best thing to do is to keep quiet; there's a chance that he gets counterclaimed, there's a chance that he's lying and doesn't get counterclaimed, which means that they will be looking for people that know that he was lying (aka you are taken out of the running for the shot). I never said that you should claim that you had a PR; I said that you should have kept quiet since speaking only harms the chances of you getting shot. As for what I did to draw a kill, early game I hoped that my talk surrounding the 10th role (and the conviction that it was town) would make scum think that I was the 10th role; I hoped that my scumhunting would do the rest.

You make the argument that you would have kept voting drealmer if you were scum with him, that's bullshit; there's no town motivation for someone to vote drealmer after he claimed jailkeeper (the risk of losing that role is not worth hitting scum right then).

I pointed out why you were struggling in the last post that I made, but if you need a recap: the fact that you took so long to answer (and still haven't actually answered) the "why did you claim you weren't a PR?" question, the "you voted drealmer after he claimed!" accusations, the failure to actually answer everything that I've brought up and the failure to make anything resembling a real counterargument.
Posted November 29, 2016
I'm sorry for my absence, the man my mom has been with for the past 12 years passed away today from a heart attack and I've been having to deal with family matters. I can not promise I'll be on much the next couple of days, so I'm sorry Nacho as much fun as it's been debating you I will have to leave the decision in gogtrials' hands.

From what you posted Nacho I will answer as quickly as I can

1. My response about the two goons was because drealmer had stated he hoped he would live through the night by picking the right person to block. If you read the matrix you would know that the jailkeeper could not stop the roleblocker from killing him if he did select the roleblocker to jail. So I said I hope there are two goons instead of a roleblocker so if he did jail the right person they could not kill him. Yes I knew there was a role blocker, but as I said I did not want everyone to know that as it would have made it clear I was the one shot bulletproof.

2. drealmer made it clear there was no doctor or cop in the game because he was the jailkeeper, I said if he was lying about his role there could be a doctor and a cop in the game still. Yes I knew there was no doctor or cop in the game, but again I did not want to reveal that i was the one shot bulletproof.

3.Why would I keep quiet? I treated the situation as I would have if I did not have a PR and was just a vanilla townie, and I would have said the exact same things if I was.

4. At the point of lynch if I was scum I would have absolutely kept my vote on drealmer if I was trying to gain town cred. If I was scum I would have known he was scum too and by lynching him all I would have to do is say I saw through his lies.

5. I have explained several times my whole stance on the PR thing, you are trying your hardest to make it an issue when it is not. I also said you did not remove your vote after drealmer claimed, not that you voted him after he claimed. Get your lies straight.

I'll try to jump on tomorrow morning if I can, it will all depend on how everything is going.
Posted November 29, 2016
Smurfy Smurf Vote Count

Nacho (1): Trent
Trent (1): Nacho

Not Voting (1): Trial

Deadline is Wed. 11/30 @ roughly 7:30 am pacific: <34 hours


Additional note, all previously announced timelines/deadlines are subject to modification at mod's smurfiest discretion.
Posted November 29, 2016
...and here I thought it was me who was supposed to be juice meat!

Thank you both for giving me lots of things to consider; ...some of it from a new angle!

@Trent: My condolences.
Posted November 29, 2016
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gogtrial34987: Also, I'm assuming at this point that you're both certain I'm town, right? Out of curiosity - and as far as you remember - what was the point you reached that conclusion?
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trentonlf: If you were actually the last scum as soon as you got on this morning and saw I had voted Nacho you would have voted him to and won. But I had you as pretty solid town yesterday with Darko
Solid enough that you didn't think anything of risking your vote potentially being wrong? Impressive...

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Nachomamma8: You should have read the matrix before you fakeclaimed because again, one-shot bulletproofs aren't informed of when they are hit or not.
Is that an absolute rule? Can you point me to any references for it? The mafiascum wiki doesn't say anything about it one way or the other...

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Nachomamma8: I don't have a role name; I found a pet mouse that would throw a wrench in the plans of anyone attempting to harm me the first night. My nightly flavor is me going to sleep with my pet mouse by my side, there's not an update of whether I've been hit or not.
So how do you read the game? Did either scum or neutral opt out of killing anyone on N1, or were you targetted on N1? ...and why do you think this was?

Also, in non-smurfy terms, what do you think Hunter's role was exactly?
Post edited November 29, 2016 by gogtrial34987
Posted November 29, 2016
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trentonlf: I see you still don't want to attempt to say the role name, kind of hard when you don't know what it is. Smurf Village 1x Smurfproof
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Nachomamma8: I wasn't aware what you were asking when you asked for a role name
So now that you do understand his question, what is your rolename? Did Trent guess it perfectly, or is it subtly different?
Posted November 29, 2016
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Nachomamma8: I wasn't aware what you were asking when you asked for a role name
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gogtrial34987: So now that you do understand his question, what is your rolename? Did Trent guess it perfectly, or is it subtly different?
I have a few minutes before I have to leave again.

*sigh* I see you are believing Nacho. I did not guess the role name, it is the the role name. All I can say is if you lynch me scum wins. The decision is up to you, I just hope you make the right choice. I'm not scum, I am the one shot bulletproof, and Nacho is scum tying his best to delude you.
Posted November 29, 2016
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trentonlf: *sigh* I see you are believing Nacho.
I just don't understand why you decided to kill Darko rather than me last night. I had you as scum way back on D1, while Darko was the only one who actually trusted you. Did you really buy my end-of-D2 comment claiming Hunter and Nacho were my top targets?
Posted November 29, 2016
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trentonlf: *sigh* I see you are believing Nacho.
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gogtrial34987: I just don't understand why you decided to kill Darko rather than me last night. I had you as scum way back on D1, while Darko was the only one who actually trusted you. Did you really buy my end-of-D2 comment claiming Hunter and Nacho were my top targets?
I did not kill anyone. Just vote me and end the game, I really am at a point of not caring. When I flip as town just remember you had the chance to win it for us.
Posted November 30, 2016
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trentonlf: I'm sorry for my absence, the man my mom has been with for the past 12 years passed away today from a heart attack and I've been having to deal with family matters. I can not promise I'll be on much the next couple of days, so I'm sorry Nacho as much fun as it's been debating you I will have to leave the decision in gogtrials' hands.
I'm sorry to hear that, trent; I've enjoyed playing with you as well and I hope things look up for you soon.
Posted November 30, 2016
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Nachomamma8:
I'm imagining you're crafting replies to my questions. I need to head to bed very shortly, so insofar possible, please keep them short and badly researched, rather than only seen tomorrow... :)



Oh bah, I just did an unthinking actual edit of this previous post in order to fix my ping of Nacho. (Didn't put a space between opening and closing tag.)
Post edited November 30, 2016 by gogtrial34987
Posted November 30, 2016
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trentonlf: 3.Why would I keep quiet? I treated the situation as I would have if I did not have a PR and was just a vanilla townie, and I would have said the exact same things if I was.

4. At the point of lynch if I was scum I would have absolutely kept my vote on drealmer if I was trying to gain town cred. If I was scum I would have known he was scum too and by lynching him all I would have to do is say I saw through his lies.

5. I have explained several times my whole stance on the PR thing, you are trying your hardest to make it an issue when it is not. I also said you did not remove your vote after drealmer claimed, not that you voted him after he claimed. Get your lies straight.

I'll try to jump on tomorrow morning if I can, it will all depend on how everything is going.
3. The point is that it was absolutely unnecessary; you didn't have to comment on the setup (and in fact probably would have been a better idea not to say anything). Saying something blew your cover for being the PR that knew drealmer was lying (aka the PR that they were looking for) - this is something you knew, and your explanation of "you were trying to stay in character" doesn't fly with me when staying silent was a perfectly acceptable alternative.

4. The hole in this logic is that as scum you try to play from a scum perspective; there is a low probability that you as town actually goes "sure, I'll lynch the person who claimed the strongest PR in the game without a counterclaim!".

5. I think it's obvious now that your motivation for playing dumb when you did doesn't actually make any sort of sense and that it's far more likely that you simply weren't planning on claiming bulletproof. As for getting my lies straight...
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trentonlf: if you are the 1x bulletproof why would you vote for the person who claimed to be the jailer?
This if you saying that I voted for drealmer after he claimed. Unless you want to deny that you made this post?
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Nachomamma8:
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gogtrial34987: I'm imagining you're crafting replies to my questions. I need to head to bed very shortly, so insofar possible, please keep them short and badly researched, rather than only seen tomorrow... :)

Oh bah, I just did an unthinking actual edit of this previous post in order to fix my ping of Nacho. (Didn't put a space between opening and closing tag.)
Sorry, didn't know that you were going to bed!

My role name is Smurf Village One-Shot Smurfproof; I imagine that he got the format from Brasas's flip.
You are correct that the Wiki doesn't mention anything about bulletproofs being informed; it's an absolute where the site comes from but it's conceivable that bler made the bulletproof informed here; it would be a weird and strange thing from my experience but most of my experience doesn't come from him.

I think it's possible that either Hunter and Scum both shot Brasas or that Hunter shot Brasas while scum attempted to shoot me (or, as a fun third alternative, Hunter shot me and scum shot Brasas). The reason there's so much variance is because Hunter was an SK as a new player; I think that the chances of me being shot are decent (I was pretty active and one of the only people posting lots early game + I think that Hunter could have attempted to shoot me N1 based on him going hard after me later in the game). Brasas is an odd shot for a scumteam attempting to find a PR but apparently trent didn't understand that's what he was supposed to do, so seems possible.

I think that Hunter was a Serial Killer with a two-shot factional kill. I don't think anything else makes much sense.
Post edited November 30, 2016 by Nachomamma8
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionMafia GAME THREAD: Smurfia! The smurfiest mafia game ever (#43)(432 posts)solved(432 posts)solved
(432 posts)solved