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my name is magike catte: I don't see Vitek's hammer as particularly AI.
So you don't see anything amiss with someone hammering when another player said they would do so in a few moments?

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my name is magike catte: Scum!Vitek would know blotunga's alignment and would have no particular reason to put himself in the spotlight like that. You could say that scum!Vitek did that precisely because scum!Vitek would have no reason to do that, but it's pretty much textbook WIFOM. That way madness lies.
And what if i'm right?

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my name is magike catte: Since waiting wouldn't have actually made any difference it seems like what you're really upset about is being denied a place on the wagon. If blotunga had flipped scum I would find your upset a little more suspicious, as it is it's meh.
That reminds me: Since they seem to suspect me (as shown by some of their posts at the end of D2)....why wouldn't a town!Vitek let me hammer and then wait for me to become the probable likely wagon today(D3)?

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my name is magike catte: Catte... well you've been tunnelling on me the entire game for not responding to an RVS vote so I'm not really taking that seriously.
I never actually expected you to give your views on yourself...but thanks for them nonetheless.

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my name is magike catte: Dedo - I've forgotten your reasons.
It was (in part) due to their focusing on & replies to me for my focusing on Lift for not taking notes.

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my name is magike catte: I'm not sure what conclusions you think you can draw from that? As nmillar already pointed out, we're in the same time zone. Do you think that instead of rolling dice, ZFR hand picked the scum team out of people he thought might come online at the same time?
No, but it's still possible (even if the odds are low) that some scum could have been randomly chosen from the same time zone.

++++++++++++++

Sidenote to all: I would like to point out that I dislike how "fishing" post 808 seems....especially with town this close to losing.

(Bump needed one last time)
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phaolo: I frankly hoped we had more days to catch scum (I didn't do the math).
I'm still left in the dark about them.
I'll need to think about it.
While you do, please note the following: Besides what I stated before, NMillar seems to now be trying to role fish(out potential power roles) in Post 808, and Vitek seems to be not too concerned with town being so close to a loss in how he words Post 806(middle bit of it).

When you do get around to replying to what I asked, please consider those as well and let me know your thoughts, if you would. :)

+++++++++++++++++

As for me....was going to vote NMillar again, but I still don't trust how Vitek hammered on D2 instead of just letting me hammer.....I mean why not let me hammer and likely be the lynch today(D3), especially if they suspect me?

So with that and other things in mind:

Votus Scummus Vitek
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GymHenson: Sidenote to all: I would like to point out that I dislike how "fishing" post 808 seems....especially with town this close to losing.

(Bump needed one last time)
Hardly fishing. I've outright told Catte to spill the beans. Are you worried about what he might say, as G seems likely to refer to you?
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nmillar: Hardly fishing. I've outright told Catte to spill the beans. Are you worried about what he might say, as G seems likely to refer to you?
If there's anything to spill.

If he's scum as I still suspect (albeit lesser now than some others like yourself and Vitek) then the info is bogus so i'm not too worried.

If he is PR having town!Catte and could prove me scum, however, i'm guessing he'd have been telling everyone and anyone at this point...what with town being even closer to a loss. As he hasn't yet, I find the possibility of him being town to be somewhat low.

Sidenote: It's odd no one has tried to lynch me or form a major wagon on me over the past few "days"....normally I would've been close to lynch at least once by now...don't you find that odd?
Vote Count

Vitek 1 - GH

Not voting - catte, Lift, phaolo, nmillar, Micro, dedo, Vitek

8 players. Takes 5 to lynch.

Vitek is closest at L-4
Post edited September 27, 2020 by ZFR
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ZFR: Vote Count

Not voting - catte, Lift, GH, phaolo, nmillar, Micro, dedo, Vitek

8 players. Takes 5 to lynch.
Um, I think you missed a vote in Post 814, Oh great headmaster. :)
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ZFR: Vote Count

Not voting - catte, Lift, GH, phaolo, nmillar, Micro, dedo, Vitek

8 players. Takes 5 to lynch.
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GymHenson: Um, I think you missed a vote in Post 814, Oh great headmaster. :)
Sorry, fixed now.
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ZFR: Sorry, fixed now.
It happens.

Here, for all the hard work yer doin: *Hands ZFR a chocolate frog*

:)
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GymHenson: This post bit: You seem awfully ok with us being so possibly close to losing the game.....why is that?
What?

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GymHenson: And what if i'm right?
And what if you are not?

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GymHenson: No, but it's still possible (even if the odds are low) that some scum could have been randomly chosen from the same time zone.
And why do you think it is indicative of anything? They could just as well be both town or one of them town and one scum (or SxS as you seem to be implying, ofcourse). What role them being in the same TZ and posting at similar times plays in that?

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nmillar: This is a really strange thing to get hung up on. We're both UK based, so you'd expect us to have similar activity periods. Also, it's just past lunch time in the UK, so I assume Catte's post was made on his lunch break.
Sunday 3pm lunch break.

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GymHenson: Sidenote: It's odd no one has tried to lynch me or form a major wagon on me over the past few "days"....normally I would've been close to lynch at least once by now...don't you find that odd?
Odd in what way? What are we supposed to take away from it?



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my name is magike catte: Don't worry about it, it probably doesn't mean anything. Hypothetically, if it did mean something then if now was a good time it would have just been stated, right? So either it doesn't mean anything or now is not the time, probably the former.
We are not in the most comfortable situation so if you have anything to share I would say it is right time to share it.
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GymHenson: This post bit: You seem awfully ok with us being so possibly close to losing the game.....why is that?
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Vitek: What?
It means exactly what it says....your wording in the middle bit of that post makes it seem like you don't seem so bothered that town is so close to losing.

Again: Is that the case or no...and if so, why is that?

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Vitek: And what if you are not?
It's a risk i'm willing to take....especially after reading your last few replies and seeing your handling of the hammer on D2.

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Vitek: And why do you think it is indicative of anything? They could just as well be both town or one of them town and one scum (or SxS as you seem to be implying, ofcourse). What role them being in the same TZ and posting at similar times plays in that?
Correction: In the Catte/NMillar pair, 1 scum 1 town is also a somewhat plausible scenario to me along with 2 scum.

Why do I find 1 or both of them to be suspect, at least in part, because of that? Because it's too coincidental that they did it at the start of two separate game "days" in a row. Something seems amiss to me, essentially.

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Vitek: Odd in what way? What are we supposed to take away from it?
It is just not part for the course...usually i'd be offed by now, either by town or scum....it also seems off to me, though hard to put it into words what I mean.

(Going to bed, but will try to answer this one more or better tomorrow when I get up)
Sorry for the delay. I'll catch up with the game some time today.
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GymHenson: Sidenote: Both of you are UK based, BUT one of you is on vacation, and the other not.....yet you both posted close to each other.....there is that to consider as well.
I don't work on sundays.

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my name is magike catte: I don't see Vitek's hammer as particularly AI.
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GymHenson: So you don't see anything amiss with someone hammering when another player said they would do so in a few moments?
Nope. In fact, I can see how one might think you were stalling. We now know blotunga wasn't scum, but at the time I could have easily believed you were scum being reluctant to bus.

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my name is magike catte: Scum!Vitek would know blotunga's alignment and would have no particular reason to put himself in the spotlight like that. You could say that scum!Vitek did that precisely because scum!Vitek would have no reason to do that, but it's pretty much textbook WIFOM. That way madness lies.
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GymHenson: And what if i'm right?
Witch, you might be! I just meant that we can't necessarily deduce it from that because of the bottomless pit of WIFOM.

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my name is magike catte: Since waiting wouldn't have actually made any difference it seems like what you're really upset about is being denied a place on the wagon. If blotunga had flipped scum I would find your upset a little more suspicious, as it is it's meh.
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GymHenson: That reminds me: Since they seem to suspect me (as shown by some of their posts at the end of D2)....why wouldn't a town!Vitek let me hammer and then wait for me to become the probable likely wagon today(D3)?
Well it doesn't necessarily follow that if you hammered you'd be suspected for it.

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my name is magike catte: Catte... well you've been tunnelling on me the entire game for not responding to an RVS vote so I'm not really taking that seriously.
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GymHenson: I never actually expected you to give your views on yourself...but thanks for them nonetheless.
cattes are notoriously self-centred.

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my name is magike catte: Dedo - I've forgotten your reasons.
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GymHenson: It was (in part) due to their focusing on & replies to me for my focusing on Lift for not taking notes.
Hmm.

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my name is magike catte: I'm not sure what conclusions you think you can draw from that? As nmillar already pointed out, we're in the same time zone. Do you think that instead of rolling dice, ZFR hand picked the scum team out of people he thought might come online at the same time?
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GymHenson: No, but it's still possible (even if the odds are low) that some scum could have been randomly chosen from the same time zone.
Sure it's possible. But possible and likely aren't close to being the same thing. If it's a random possibility, how could you possibly draw any kind of meaning from it?

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GymHenson: Sidenote to all: I would like to point out that I dislike how "fishing" post 808 seems....especially with town this close to losing.

(Bump needed one last time)
I don't know if I'd call it fishing necessarily, that feels like unnecessary shading.

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nmillar: This is a really strange thing to get hung up on. We're both UK based, so you'd expect us to have similar activity periods. Also, it's just past lunch time in the UK, so I assume Catte's post was made on his lunch break.
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Vitek: Sunday 3pm lunch break.
Yeah, I assume nmillar forgets I work in a college (I wouldn't expect him to remember) so I don't work on sundays. Also when GH brought it up I looked at the timing and it was more like 2pm. Still, it was a sunday so I got up late, mooched around for a bit, remembered it had been about two days since the night began and logged into GOG to check.

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Vitek: We are not in the most comfortable situation so if you have anything to share I would say it is right time to share it.
I wish I had something to share.
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phaolo: I frankly didn't expect the scum to kill gogtrial.. he has been basically always wrong with his choices lol.
Also, RIP blotunga.

We're down to 8 players now..
Well, yes, he was wrong with his choices. So were we all. At least all of us that participated in the lynches. But gogtrials efforts appeared genuine to me, so I still had him as Town.

But yes. If we mislynch again AND the NK goes through, then we lose, if scum started with 3 players. Which is a reasonable assumption since we started with 12 players and 1/4 is the usual scum faction size. In any case it's a safe assumption and we should act as if we were at MYLO.

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GymHenson: Vitek is there mainly because of their stealing the hammer from me, somewhat preventing Blotunga from having more time to post their reads/leans on players and other info before the end of the day(D2), even though I had stated I would hammer and we had time left for me to do so.

Add to that this little "odd" thing: Why would Vitek, who seems to suspect me(if their last posts to me on D2 are anything to go by) vote for my intended vote/hammer choice and hammer them themselves if they're town!Vitek? Why didn't they let me hammer, look bad for doing so, and let me be suspected more the next day(today-d3) if they suspect me?
What.
This line of reasoning doesn't make much sense. Suspecting someone for kill-stealing is a very strange reason. And your second argument rather is one for Vitek NOT being scum. Only scum would have known that the lynch would be a mis-lynch. So, to be able to let you hammer, knowing that you would look bad for it, Vitek would have had to be scum. He didn't let you hammer to make you look bad. So by your own reasoning he acted in a way that would have been stupid for Scum!Vitek.

I'm not defending Vitek. (it is WIFOM, after all) I suspect him too, mostly for his low presence and low effort. However, you pick up on the entirely wrong reason for your suspicion. Again. Which makes me wonder again if this is usual GH-anti-logic or whether there is intent behind it. Trying to make a case against someone who is rather suspect anyhow.

But yes, the fact that Vitek felt the need to hammer right away even though he was around for the remaining minutes is a bit anti Town. He wrote that blotunga was offline at the time. Can anyone confirm that?

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phaolo: Btw we had various players not partecipating much in this game.
I hope they're not scum, because it would just be a boring reveal..
That's true. I hate lurky scum. It's such a low-effort way of staying under the radar. Active scum is much more fun to play with.

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my name is magike catte: I don't see Vitek's hammer as particularly AI.
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GymHenson: So you don't see anything amiss with someone hammering when another player said they would do so in a few moments?
No, not if that other player could be scum and therefore there was no reason to trust that player's announcement. Keep in mind: all others have to see you as potential scum. Hell, maybe you ARE scum and were trying to 'accidentally' let the Day end in a no-lynch? Is that the reason you are so irked about the 'kill stealing'? In any case, as I and others have said before, if you are Town, that is a really strange thing to take as a scum read. You contradict your own reasoning.

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nmillar: Hardly fishing. I've outright told Catte to spill the beans.
Why?

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GymHenson: Sidenote: It's odd no one has tried to lynch me or form a major wagon on me over the past few "days"....normally I would've been close to lynch at least once by now...don't you find that odd?
Not at all odd, if you are scum. The point is, when you are Town, you are awfully easy to abuse as mislynch-wagon target. Your quirky way makes it easy to make you look scummy. So, 'normally' as you put ist, there would have been a major wagon on you because scum can easily start a wagon on you or add to it, if one randomly forms. It would also be a quite forgiving wagon, since 'he looked scummy' is easily accepted when it refers to you.

So yes, if you are Town it is odd that no one has tried to mis-lynch you. However, if you are scum, it totally makes sense that your scumbuddies wouldn't drive a lynch-wagon on you as long as Town-targets are available. Thanks for pointing that out!

Now, would Scum!GH accidentally make such a point against himself? ... Maybe he would. In any case you're trying your best Today to demolish the Town-reading that I had of you Yesterday! If you are not Scum, would you please explain to me what your conclusion from the 'no wagon on you' observation was? I mean, you probably did not mention that observation to make a point against yourself. So what WAS your point?
Btw. I went back through gogtrial's posts and I can't find anything that looks like breadcrumbing investigation results. So I guess he either didn't have any (the person he watched wasn't visited) or he didn't care to breadcrumb or I'm missing something. In other words: please don't hesitate to check for yourself. Breadcrumbing is a tricky thing. Maybe I missed something.
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Lifthrasil: Why?
You've said yourself that we're at MYLO, so if there's anything to share, now is the time.