No no no no no no no.
My thought process would have cleared trent if the visit had worked and he had not moved.
as the visit was unsuccessful, neither trent nor flocke are cleared in my book

...
Wait. You had a Watcher ability, which you could have used N1. Carradice had claimed Cop. If that claim was true, he was sure to be visited. By the NK or someone foiling his power. Him not being visited would have immediately proven him as Scum. So one way or the other, watching him would have netted you vital information. And yet you DECIDED NOT TO WATCH THE CLAIMED COP? Why? This makes no sense at all from a Town point of view.

If you indeed tracked Micro and he went somewhere, I would expect that his claim to have been blocked was false. As far as I know usually someone who is blocked doesn't move. And Micro explicitly told us that he was blocked. Then again you could be lying about having tracked him. If you are, as I assumed, in different camps but with you being the evil one.

I don't like this claim. JOAT is a popular scum claim. A 4-shot JOAT is unusually powerful and having one unspecified power left over is awfully convenient to wave that 'I have one more Night of usefulness' around. I.e. to still count as PR. Also having a full Tracker and a one-shot Tracker in the Town camp sounds quite unlikely. I am fairly confident that one of you or Micro is lying.

But I do agree that Flocke should go next.

@Flocke: would you please claim?

A proper roleblock vote block the ability of the blocked player but any abilities used on them should work normally. A jailing would both block the target's action and any actions targeting them (outside of the jailing itself).


I understood that and this isn't what I asked you about. Please read the following with the assumption your plan resolved exactly as you were hoping:

Let me make it easier for you. Assume the following happened last night:

1. You tracked Trent and received a proper investigation report (you weren't blocked or your action prevented in any way).
2. Trent did diddly squat which made him very likely Town.
3. This in turn made Flocke likely Town.
4. Which led to Vitek leaning scum.
5. Who is Vitek's scumbuddy in this case?

Well, I wasn't much sold on him being cop and I saw odds of him being NK'ed as quite low so I chose to do something else. It might have not been the best choice but I haven't had proper role in years and I don't even rememeber if I ever had roleblocker and not gonna lie, it felt like good idea to try to spoil some fun yog could be having.

Yeah, I would agree. I was doubtful of Micro but I wasn't sure what exactly does town have and thought there is a possibility there is 1-shot variant and full-fledged one, balanced out by visitor so I wasn't willing to dismiss it fully.

I'm Town Regular.

I'm still rereading. Will post details tomorrow.

This is a REALLY good point.

Why shoot in the dark and risk waste the block or even worse, prevent a proper Town power performing when you were able to watch the claimed Cop? You had the literally best possible action to use in that situation and you blocked Yog? It's like you and Micro are trying to one-up each for the worst ideas...


Details of what exactly?


Right.


@Lift, I have the feeling we might have leftovers from more than one scum groups.

You don't understand my genius.

Indubitably.


I'm really curious to hear Trent's claim now.

i wrote a really long post answering lift's page 25 comments to me and other stuff, and somehow ggo didn't post it?! Agh. :>(

Sorry I'm not that special this game, just Town Regular

A 4 shot JOAT? What shot do you have left?

So we have confirmed

1. Town Doctor
2. Town One Shot Commuter
3. Town Compulsive Visitor
4. Town Regular x 2
5. Mafia Role Cop


Claimed

1. Town Tracker
2. Town JOAT
3. Town Regular x 2

What are your claims dedo and lift? There seem to be an awful lot of roles claimed in this game...

Well, trying to reconstitute a post 2-3 hours after the fact is awful, but here goes.

1. trent was one of my top suspects. As i said earlier, I messed up. I added the "in order" while doing a last-second skim-read of my post in order to check for typos etc. It was intended to apply to Vitek vs Flocke, but not necessarily Vitek vs Flocke vs Trent.. At the Time, Vitek, who had only given town vibes on D3 (not so much to me on D1 & 2) was scummier (to me) than Flocke, who had given smatterings of town-vibes throughout. However, Trent, because of his very unreadability to me was one of my strongest scum reads. Because I was so unsure, i tracked him, as it seemed to me that this would in all likelihood either clear or condemn him by the presence or absence of movement.
Which it would be (scum or town-clear), I wasn't sure and didn't really care. It would give me an answer either way, on someone who, as part of the upper tier of suspects, was mostly unread by everyone. If he had moved, he would be condemned, while if he stayed home, he would be cleared in my eyes. If I had been able to track Trent, depending on the results , the possibility existed to clear 1.5 birds with one stone, while if I had tracked Vitek or Flocke, I only would have tracked 1 bird. The potential rewards for tracking Trent seemed higher than the rewards of tracking Flocke. Hopefully this helps clear up some of the contradiction. The potential exists for Trent to be top-tier scum or regular town and I wasn't sure which so I tracked the player who I thought would give the highest level of rewards.
Re 1255, the reverse is also true. if he had moved, i would be voting him as we speak.

2.I was convinced that all scum would move because I was convinced that town had another PR. Town so far has had Visitor, Commuter, Doctor, Tracker. Scum has had Role Cop.
In a 13-player game where a 3-player scum team is fewer than 25% of the players, and where there are 3-anti scum town PRs, scum NOT having another PR would be the among biggest surprises of the game to me. It would mean that they were weaker than i thought and deserve a bigger hat-tip if they win.

Yes, my reasoning that town had no more PR's could be faulty. However, as it was stated in the game where Joppo was scum tracker, Scum making a conscious decision to not utilize all of their roles on any given night is a Bad Decision and Anti-Team. Therefore, I have no reason to expect or suspect that they wouldn't use all available tools at their disposal, including another PR.. Since town PR's outweighed scum PRs by 3+1:1, I was sure there had to be another PR.
Therefore, as both scum players would need to move in order to perform the PR action +the factional NK, if someone didn't move they are very very likely to be town. At which point the educated guess that has been previously advocated by others comes into play and Trent would move into my town-camp. I argued that of the two remaining scum, there should be a PR. If you add this to Carradice, who was already out of the game, this makes 3 scum.
My comment in question:
You twisted this to say This is either deliberate or accidental, and coming from you, it seems unlikely to be accidental.

I stated "they have another PR among the two scum remaining"
you said "you claim they should have a PR but we already eliminated it." Note the difference?
Which 2nd scum PR did we uncover? Which flipped player other than Carradice is scum? The answer? No one.

3. I hold to this. If we get their scum RB today, I have free reign to track at my leisure. They don't know who we will get. Because there was no CC, and because of the BC, I am, as ZFR said of C, temporarily to be believed by all, while scum left a confirmed-town PR alive. Scum know that i have 0 reason to lie, and can only hope to twist my words in on themselves to make it look like I am saying what i am not. Of course, i have helped by being unclear on certain things.
In attempting to make a distraction, they left a confirmed PR in the game.

Again with the twisting of my words.

In 1162, i unvote flocke and state Yogs was confirmed town EOD3, which leaves Trent as my 2nd highest suspect. i think this qualifies as "among my top suspects." I think even the most doubtful would consider this to not be a contradiction.

Bump

Thank you @Trent!!


++++++++++++++++++

Also, as I recall, and as you do to, it was Trent stating "Flocke is in my Town-Core"(922), (1119), (1132, 1136, 1144), 386 "You’ve given thoughtful posts and are asking good questions to move the game state forward." Only in 1187 does he state his willingness to move Flocke to his vote pile. This is a far cry from what you seem to think is occurring, namely that Flocke claiming Trent is so towny. If Trent was confirmed town, this is not buddying nor is it "hitching a ride without adding anything." And true, a townie can't clear except by investigating, but a confirmed townie's words have more weight than the words of a player-of-unknown-alignment. I was tracking to find out if he is town or not, and thus to know if his words had any meaning at all (as opposed to say the words of Joe or dedo, who have been town-cleared.)
yes, it is not an absolute link that just because trent says so, flocke is townier, but it certainly helps when trent has been backing flock--even in opposition to you (1132 & 1136).

However, as I wasn't able to track trent successfully, this last bit is moot and/or semantics.

++++++++++++

I am not excluding him, per se, and I still think his accusations are unsound, but I cannot--yet--put my finger on anything definite beyond his (willfull) twisting of my words toDay. I don't quite follow, so i'm breaking this down into parts.
1." you said it's town-folk trying to nail scum" this is relating to a NK.
2." then you say it would be stupid of scum to block you instead of NK and so you rule it out yet it is exactly what you claim that happened?" remember that all of this is reasons I know there are two scum players. Scum did block me. Again, it would have been incredibly silly of scum to RB instead of NKing.

C is unlikely because no one had CC'd, nor was there any hint that I was not what I am. Therefore, the town-minded townie, would not RB me. Also, if scum had only 1 role, they could not have 1) RB'd me and 2) NKd another. It is not in any way in scum interest to RB instead of NKing.
My logic makes perfect sense. C (townfolk doing a NK hoping to hit scum) is beyond the pall of belief. Again, it is incredibly silly of scum to RB instead of NKing. It is so illogical that I am not going to contemplate it.

I need to reread Lift Flocke Trent and Vitek to see if my take aligns with Lift's takes.

I do not know and I would have to see think & more before deciding. At any rate, i could remove Trent from the suspect list.

As of now, I don't care for Vitek or Flocke's claims,a s they both seem quite...convenient.
Is there anything -- in your opinion--to Vitek's accusation that trent's park on C is convenient?

again, i was role[insert word that rhymes with frocked/crocked/stocked]

I'm a Town Regular. Big surprise, I know.

I talked about that extensively, not a lot more I can add to it. The only way I can see Trent being scum is if he is from another faction rivaling Carradice's faction.

On mobile and travelling, therefore no quotes or replies for now. Just my claim. I'm a Town Regular too.

@dedo: yes, we might have more than one non-Town faction left. I thought about Vitek again and I really doubt that Town!Vitek would squander such an opportunity. Even if he, as he said, doubted Carradices claim watching him would have been the reasonable thing to do. To prove that Carradice wasn't visited at Night (which he would be, if he were a real cop)

I think Vitek was in Carradice's team after all. Probably together with Flocke. Micro's target selection is still off, but I just don't see him in the same camp as Vitek. So if Vitek is scum, micro might still be neutral. But I want to try to hit scum. I guess, vitek made a blunder with his claim to secure surviving one more Night by appearing useful while reporting a Track on micro that makes micro look bad. Scum only need one mislynch - and it seems as if Vitek saw an opportunity to push the already exposed micro to the text lynch.

Therefore, vitek becomes my new main suspect, followed by flocke, followed by micro

Vote Vitek