I like how HijacK is reading yesterday's newspaper. :)

Of all the days since the game started, it had to be the one I was AFK almost all day long, didn't it?

I was still trying to catch up with everything and then the bombs started dropping... I'm still trying to pick up my jaw from the floor.
I have to reread everything tomorrow, as I'm currently too tired to trust myself to have done it without having missed or misunderstood anything.

I just hope that when I've digested the developments, there will still be time for discussion, i.e. no sealed lynch in the next few hours.

What a day.

I wouldn't worry, he's only got a few votes so far, I'm fairly sure you'll have time to do / say what you want before the lynch.

I do agree with you on that impression and I thank you for your offer. It is a tempting idea to ally temporarily with one of the hostile factions against the other - but there are just too many ways this could go wrong, too many ways you could be lying or turning on town at night. A SK is very dangerous to keep around, but as far as I understand it, he usually is a loner too. So if we eliminate you, we (probably) eliminate one entire anti-town faction, which will make everyones life easier ... plus reduce the number of losses at night, from which, in the long run, town would statistically suffer more than mafia.

So all in all: thanks for revealing yourself and for (kind of) confirming our cop. But I think you are too dangerous to keep around and therefore see it as the best option to lynch you and I will vote on you, as soon as all our lurkier friends have had time to show their faces. I don't know whether we will benefit from waiting with the lynch, but then again, as others have said, there is not actual reason to hurry either. And I don't like the possibility that some people can later hide behind their absence, so let's give everyone the chance to chime in (or find a more active replacement).

side note: I know that the cop confirmation is not 100% sure. yog and RWare might still be two scum playing everyone, with one sacrificing himself to give the other a top standing. (Although such a standing would only last until the claimed cop starts acting against town). But I don't believe this is the case here. How it played out seemed very genuine, so either we are being masterfully played or we actually (much more likely) have a confirmed cop scenario - on Day 1 nonetheless. Quite exciting.


OK. I understand now why you want to keep your name to yourself for now ... and it seems like you have gotten a stronger confirmation than a mere name anyhow. :-)


As others have pointed out, this reads like a slip up... sure, you justified it afterwards and it is nothing strong. But it is something to remember later.

But I think a Jester would read as neutral, not as anti-town.


Interesting comment. It appears as if you didn't read the thread before posting and missed a very big development. To paraphrase your own words: please do read the thread again and see if you notice something ... like someone revealing who he is!


That's all for now. As explained I'll wait a bit before lynching RWarehall, especially since I'll go to bed now. See you tomorrow.

And this is what happens when I put gifts before game. Seriously I am going to be VERY put out if this happens again during Day 2. I might actually be disappointed!

I'm not entirely sure I agree with Yogs timing...but that's just me, I think coming out with a power role this early can be a bit dangerous for the town, depending on what else is around. I don't like it, but since Warehall confessed, then I'm willing to put my trust into the matter.

Vote RWarehall

To anyone actually considering it, there is no reason to keep him alive, even if you think he'll follow with whoever we tell him to NK, he's still doing it for his own reasoning. And that's still not assuming that he's telling the truth about having his ability at night 3. Too many ifs, it's too dangerous to keep him around. Town's supposed to out and lynch anti-town factions.

There is a reason many are pushing harder for a lynch. Remember than you have mafia among your numbers that don't want to have to waste a night kill on me.

Not that it will change anything, but don't you think i would offer a night 1 kill for you if I could?

WOW, this is quite the development. I agree that it is too risky to keep RWarehall alive beyond today. As he is anti-everyone, it seems too risky to trust him. If we knew we could trust him, his plan sounds tempting. If town was in bad shape, the potential payoff might be worth the risk. At this point in the game, I don’t see the risk as worth it. Is there a way to ensure he “stays on his leash”?

I also agree that there is no rush to lynch him until everyone has had a chance to share. Anyone pushing hard to lynch him immediately is a possible scum candidate in my book.

I’ll do some re-reading, but I doubt yogsloth and RWarehall cooked up this scheme together. Unless someone uncovers something to the contrary, I believe Yogsloth is the Cop.

I’ve been trying to keep a pulse on what’s going on the last few days but have been pressed for time. I need to re-read everything slowly. I will post more in the next few hours, including my thoughts on some of the other players.

There is no way he 'stays on his leash', except that the next lynch will be his, and honestly that's something that can be solved by lynching him now instead of taking the risk. There's also no risk that he won't try to mess with town or play to some other agenda during the day periods until he can kill either, which leaves us the question of what would we do with him?

I think it's too risky, town doesn't win if he's alive, he's simply trying to buy time, for what I don't know but that's what it looks like to me.

To all of the players wondering if, just maybe, we shouldn't kill RWarehall today, the answer is a resounding no. If RWarehall is indeed a Serial Killer, as he himself has confessed to being, we should definitely not keep him alive. Despite all of his promises to the contrary, he will begin killing us.

The other scenario many of you have presented is,"What if he is a Jester or some such role, wouldn't it be best not to lynch him then?" The answer, to my mind, is still no. If RWarehall is a Jester, or a similar role, it would be best to get his killing over with today. Yes, he would have fulfilled his win condition, but there is nothing to stop him from posting after that. Perhaps, after lynching him, he could become an ally of sorts.

For now I shall keep my vote to myself. We still have much to discuss and quite a lot of time to do it it. I see no reason why we cannot use the time we have been given to do so.

Moving along, I have a bombshell of my own to drop. Before I do so, I must say that in claiming now, I am trying to prevent confusion, and my own possible lynch, in future.

Here it is then: I am Tequila Yuen, Town Cop. I too had a night zero action, which I used on Yogsloth. In an equally terse message from flubbucket, I was informed that Yogsloth is town. Now to address the problems arising from this.

I do not believe it is possible that both of us are sane cops. Therefore, either Yogsloth or myself must not be sane. I am leaning towards Yog being the sane one, but the problem with that then becomes that I am the insane one, and I used my night action on Yog. The insane trait means that the readings I get are the opposite of what they should actually be, i.e that Yog should be anti-town instead.

I find this hard to believe, as I still feel that he is town. The other possibilities are that Yog may be a Paranoid Cop or that I am a Naive or Insane Cop (there is also the possibility that either of us is a Random Cop, meaning that all our readings would be randomized, but I do not believe flub would be quite so cruel).

If the first scenario holds true (Yog is a Paranoid Cop): Then Yog needs to be wary of how he reports the information he receives. The problem with this scenario is that RWarehall has admitted to being a Serial Killer, meaning that this was a once of fluke (i.e that Yog received the normal Paranoid Cop read, but this time it turned out to be correct) or that Yog is a sane policeman.

If the second scenario holds true: This will only be shown if either myself or someone I investigated is lynched and their alignment turns out to be contrary to what I have found it to be. If I turn out to be a Naive or Insane Cop, I expect all of you to act accordingly.

We are playing to win rather then prevent others from winning. The only problem a jester would present is to waste a lynch (and maybe an NK, but that can be seen as positive result). The Jester's and our own wins aren't exclusive to each other, so he is mostly a distraction and a nuisance. The SK on the other hand is an anti-town alignment exactly because he can win with us alive and vice versa. We are pretty far from the point when RWarehall present a clear danger to actually losing the game, but he still has the potential to inflict great amount of damage that may later prove critical to the end result. Even though I tend to believe the day 3 limitation, consider the following.

The Town Doctor protects the Yog and we play the Follow the Cop game which is really good especially this early in the game. It's all fine and dandy because the cop is invincible, right? Wrong! The doctor is able to prevent a single hit on the cop. Do you know what will happen if the cop is protected and he get both NKed and SKed? This.

Keeping RWarehall is like keeping a ticking bomb with the hope it will explode in someone else's face (and make note that the said face may happen to be a townie).

I'm ask everyone not to push it until all of us have had the chance to state their minds, but I'm strongly against deals of this sort.

Ok. I have to say, I some what expected this. Not particularly from CSPVG, just in general.

Again, I'm not sure how I feel about you claiming now. But it's done so there's not much else to say.

I can't see a reason for you to lie and claim this (especially as you're not actually trying to discredit yogs claim or result)

But both your results appear to be accurate, so I don't know what to make of it. It's a shame we can't be sure of RWarehalls claims, because it might be an easy way to test and see if we have an insane or otherwise modified cop role. Probably a waste of a scan even if we could trust him.

Development!

This is getting better and better, even though we may be getting in bastardized territory, which is not that cool, but still fun.

I agree, I did not mean to imply he was a Jester, I was just mulling over the idea of it, possibly because I was reading the Mafia wiki at the time. I understand that he poses a threat, and that it is probably best to take him out now, rather than risk him not being true to his word (about helping us and not the Scum) and doing more damage to Town. I have held back my vote, as many seem to think it is best to allow the lurkers or absent players a chance to interact and also to see if any more information can be found before night.

This should read "can't".

I forgot another important thing to add. If the night 3 limitation is true, then up until then RWarehall will only be able to silence people. I'm not sure if he can choose not to, but if he has to then this is a problem. Even if he is able to skip it, this would mean that he is unable to perform the only thing we are keeping him for alive. So, once more, I can't justify taking such a risk.

WHAT? You claim to be a second cop? ... Why? I mean why claim now? Sure, your scenarios of paranoid, naive and random cops could be true and would need to be investigated. But you could have waited and evaluated first. For IF you really were town, why would you deliver a second big target on a silver platter to the scum? I agree, that Yog seems 'genuine' - but by claiming he has painted a very big target on his bag. That may be possible for town to offset, if there is a doctor around. But, if we assume that you actually are a town cop too, you have done something very stupid and have handed a second target to the scum, which makes it so much more difficult for any night-protective power role we may have to do their protecting effectively. So if you really were a second town cop, this move would have been very stupid. - And I don't see you as stupid player. So I tend NOT to believe your claim.

What other reasons might there be for you to claim? Sure, it is possible, that you are what you say and just felt the need to share the paranoid/naive problem... But isn't it more likely that you are lying for some reason? You might be:

1) scum. Secure in the knowledge that town has a sure target for now, this move might be perfect for scum. You can be sure, that your scum-buddies won't kill you at night. You can be sure, that you won't get lynched tonight. And, while you have made yourself suspicious with this move, you also have bought yourself a few more nights at the same time, because to evaluate the entire "who is the sane one of the two cops" situation would need to be evaluated based on both of your claims and appropriate lynches. Which takes time. Time in which you could do more damage. You even could establish yourself as the sane one, by sacrificing one of your scum-buddies as a 'correct read'.
So all in all: scum was in a difficult situation after a kind of confirmed cop on day one. And you just did the one thing that can help them in this situation: sowing confusion, questioning the sanity of our cop and buying time. So if you are scum, this was a very smart move.

2) You could be town vanilla trying to protect the cop by drawing the night kill. But in doing so, you also confuse any other power roles that town may have. So this would be a very dangerous move.

So, either you are town (as claimed or as vanilla) and have done something stupid. Or you are scum and have done something smart, which, while being risky, is a way to buy time for scum and to damage town. Since I, like I said, don't see you as stupid player, I tend to believe that you are scum. Especially with the way you have been lurking initially until you were called out on it. So all in all you have just taken the top position in my personal 'probably scum' list.


The question to all is now: what to do? I would say, we still go for the lynch of RWarehall, see how he flips (though I assume that his self-claim as SK will be true) and see what happens at night. Then, on the second day, we can discuss whether it is best for town, to lynch CSPVG next, or whether there is some new information that makes his claim more believable. Because at the moment I see him as scum trying hard to sow confusion and buy time to help scum out of a tight spot.