Not your fault, I'm the one who felt it was a bad idea to say I heard a noise and pulled my blade. From all the bag searching going on and then brains being picked adding too much more to focus on was a bad idea, and I didn't want to start talking about what I was doing at night since I was protecting you.

FTFY ;)

Funny, but not true

Why did you say evil? Evil must be vanquished, and I am not evil.

I could see being cute and correcting it to "I was using my scum role cop ability on you" (as I said funny, but not true) but to put evil in there, that was odd.

Any action at all, or any night action? What happens if they (Dedo at this point, I guess) are selected to be lynched? Does he die or do you protect him?

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I've had to read this more than once. Let me see if I understand what is being said:

We have Dedo pushing Trent for more information, then adding detail to the scenario after Trent gives him a line. Trent provides another line, and Dedo expands on the scenario some more. It appears they've both seen more or less the whole scenario, and are backing each other on the flavor events.

Trent chose to [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_29_the_deep_smelly_dungeon/post586]informationthat might have led to conversation about him and what he was doing. Instead, he apparently wanted to look into everyone who was investigated last night.

And now we've got Dedo going back and saying that yes, Trent did visit him and Dedo saw something to that effect without the including the Tracker result.
Dedo: Was anyone else singled out in the flavor for your PM?

I don't know about the rest of you, but my PM was pretty clear about what I knew of what was happening last night. Maybe these two had some confusion about what was happening (in a mechanical sense), but I can't help noticing that this might be an excellent setup for scum to be all "oops, my bad, I/we are really town" after trying to flush out information.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought all those mushrooms...

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(This is just me having some fun.)
You say Evil must be vanquished, and are apparently against evil scum. Are there good scum? Are there scum that don't need vanquishing?

Back - confess I expected the wagon to have passed through the station into Night-town before I got back. If Trent flipped scum I probably would have had some 'splainin to do. ;) Had a nice outing/dinner with friends though.

Anyway, on the PM point I think we need to be clear which PM we're talking about. I've used the phrase mostly to refer to the original start-of-game PM, not whatever they were PMed at the closure of N1. Just might want to clarify which you mean.

And with that said, you seem to be confirming you had a PM at the closure of N1. I mean, given the seeming number of roles on the table that's not exactly a huge reveal, but it seems to be teasing some reveal, no?

As for the info side (@Hijack), I agree that misinformation is dangerous, however I think the amount of info on the table will make it harder, or at least riskier, than normal to bluff. Even assuming there are 4 scum there's only so many bluff combos available to them before they trip themselves up or hit conflicting claims either today or in the reveal of D3.

I'm not completely averse to lynching Trent, since even with his explanation (586) it doesn't completely sit well. I think it more likely than not he's scum, but...if we're wrong, as Wyrm noted, we could well be down to LyLo on D3.

If there weren't a role-blocker (claimed) in the mix, we could potentially just no lynch and see if trent's protection story plays out, or if scum avoid it altogether and go for the WIFOM of hitting another RVS target. But possible role-blocker messes that up. I'm skeptical whether Yog will clarify if Trent's holy protection aura can be role-blocked or not once established, but it would be useful to know the mechanics.

I was referring to the N1 PM, but the statement holds for pretty much all of them. It has been clear to me when Yog is conveying information, when he's refusing to convey information, and when he's just been screwing with me. And if it wasn't clear, I badgered him until I was satisfied, in spite of his name calling. ;)

Yeah, sure, I'll confirm that Yog saw fit to PM me around the start of D2. He PM'd me something on a scale from "Day 2 has started, and no dead thread for you yet. Congrats, I guess" to "You're using that ability now? Okay then, this is the entire game setup, along with every one's roles and night actions". Where precisely on that scale I fall will be left as an exercise for the reader. :P

My role is a night action so I'm sure if dedo was lynched I would not be able to stop it.

Yes evil must be vanquished, and no there are no good scum. My whole point was why did he put evil in his correction? That is an odd choice of wording to use in that instant. At no other point has he said "evil scum", made me wonder if he knows he is evil scum and that is why he put that in the post. Guess you would call it a freudian slip.

Wonder if Leonard would care to clarify what he means here.

But still you didn't answer the question, what made you commit yourself to dedo on DAY 1 for the ENTIRE GAME!? Why were you so 100% sure that he is town? If you are town, you couldn't have had any solid information about dedo's faction. Day 1 is always just guesswork for town and you know that. So you risked accidentally protecting scum (should dedo be scum) for the entire game, IF your role functions as you say. A town trent wouldn't blow his one power-role shot just on a hunch, I think. So where did you rash decision come from?
This doesn't fit at all and looks to me more like a discovered scum grasping at straws.

Also the fact still remains that you pushed others to reveal what happened to them at night and you didn't reveal what happened to you. You even LIED, when asked about it directly. So I still think that we have to lynch you (as you would think too, were our positions reversed).

I'll be at a wedding over the weekend. But my vote on trent will stay where it is. I am quite sure that it is well placed and that our best chance to hit scum or at least disentangle this mess is to go through with this lynch. Anyone who disagrees with that, please explain why.

You already try to bite, huh? I haven't backed away from anything I said including the part where I take responsibility for my actions regardless of the outcome. I was well aware I may end up being the lynch target on D3 if Trent actually happened to flip Town but with all data at hand at that point I still believe that was the correct play. Trent did choose to not tell the truth about what happened during the night regardless of his reasons and in my eyes, with my data that was a direct lie that had to acted upon.

And, please, don't talk to me about black and white:

I believe I gave very reasonable explanations why I did what I did and why I was more inclined to believe I'm on the right track and you seemed to be pretty happy to jump right away on the wagon.


I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but if you are asking whether or not I saw someone / something else - no, only the searched bad, stolen stuff and Trent. Nothing else of interest.

So, after a good night sleep and weighing in some possibilities I started to wonder about something. Bler was right, Trent has no other way of going at this other than being absolutely truthful about what he was seen to be doing and come out with the closest and most plausible version. So knowing what he told he did is true what scum-oriented possibilities there are?

Blowing out a game-long ability risking to end up protecting a scumbag for the rest of the game (and regardless of bler saying he had me as strong town) doesn't seem like the best idea. Watcher on the other hand would make a sense scum-wise. Someone did go through my stuff which was expected. As bler said I did generate a decent amount of FoS and Adalia had me as top scum pick initially. It wasn't that big of a stretch for an investigator to check me out. A scum Watcher would have a way better reason to watch a potential investigation target than a game-long Bodyguard to put his life on the line for a player who was largely a part of the first Townie lynch and appointed as a scum pick from said lynchee.

So what if rather than watching over me Trent was watching me?

As I said my reasoning for choosing dedo was because I felt he was town, and if dedo was town he's to strong a player to lose. I thought he would be a prime target for scum so I thought it was best to protect him from the beginning.

It's funny you picked up on that. I originally didn't put that in but added it later to make it clear that I was joking around.

Sure, that is what I was told in my PM on N1.

Possible, my question would be, "Why does it matter?" Does it really matter what exactly he did? Obviously it would if we found out he was body-guarding you, but other than that it is a moot point.

I think the only way forward right now is to lynch trentonlf.

That would be incongruent with going through your stuff, imo. I think if a watcher were to be "spotted" it would be something like you wake up and find cigarette butts just outside your campsite.

Theorizing what other 'type' of scum he might be other than a cop doesn't seem to take us anywhere unless there's a cop who wants to come forward and claim the visit. At this point the alternate hypothesis to what he's claimed is scum cop, or maybe some manner of thief.

Again, that's part of why I've tried to sell the mass claim to help us at least potentially put those pieces together and make a more informed guess about WTF. If Trent is scum cop no one else can bluff to cover the visit, because if we lynch him anyway and he flips, voila, 2 scum.

In other suggestions people will hate, but I still think has to seriously be considered, is no lynch. Assume Trent tells true (and if he's not scum they'd likely tend to guess he was true on role) - town doesn't know how Roleblocker would work vis-a-vis his claimed power, but it occurred to me that neither does scum. So perhaps they throw the roleblock at trent and try and kill Dedo to keep FoS on Trent and it fails. That would be a big win. Or they RVS and stay away and risk leaving the tracker in play.

If we no-lynch and Trent is scum they either have to leave the tracker alive and RVS both the roleblock and NK elsewhere in the field, or they have to use the Roleblock (or fake the roleblock) on Trent and hit Dedo, but in the process they effectively waste the roleblock. Who knows if Tracker is our best power left in play, but I find it a potentially useful one to gambit keeping alive. Risk for town, yes, but risk for scum as well.

Though I put all this effort in knowing I'm probably talking to a wall ;)