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chaos_panda: Here is my problem. First match - so no skills on my side - and my opponent is a dwarf-team with that big guy steamroller-thing, lots of block and guard. after the 4. or 5. turn I just abandoned. How the hell do I counter that mashine with a stock team?
Keep a few things in mind:
1. The Deathroller is only there for one drive. It is a secret weapon, so it will have to go. Which means you want a quick TD.
2. The Deathroller adds A LOT of TV to a team. Make good use of your inducements.
3. The opponent still only has one blitz per turn. If he uses it for his Deathroller in a situation that doesn't give him a tactical advantage, that can be good for. Disengage where you can and where you dare risk it.
4. You can make a surprise TD by throwing a Goblin.
Post edited November 18, 2013 by Piranjade
my starting roster was the same as in the gg-weekly-league - 4bo, 4 blitzer, 1 thrower, 2 linemen, 3 rr. So no gob and no troll. In the end nothing available for fast TD.

I am still not convinced, a troll would actually be a great investment when I see that "really stupid". Without him the Orcs are still quite bashy. ^^"
Post edited November 18, 2013 by chaos_panda
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chaos_panda: my starting roster was the same as in the gg-weekly-league - 4bo, 4 blitzer, 1 thrower, 2 linemen, 3 rr. So no gob and no troll. In the end nothing available for fast TD.

I am still not convinced, a troll would actually be a great investment when I see that "really stupid". Without him the Orcs are still quite bashy. ^^"
...you keep on feeding a lino orc to that deathroller. orc lineman and zombie have the best durability/money ratio in game. ST4 is a bit of wasted against roller i think, atleast if you want to orcishly bash you way to td.

Anyways, orcs with their high av are one of the better teams to face dwarfs no matter the TV.
I read a few articles at bbtactics. A lot of Orc-Player seem to avoid Linemen or thrower with the argument, both aren't needed. Some use Goblins as Catcher. Dunno ... when I see Piran's team; they are so fragile.

I guess I have to fool around with them even more in the Single Player-Campaign. ^^
Post edited November 18, 2013 by chaos_panda
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chaos_panda: I read a few articles at bbtactics. A lot of Orc-Player seem to avoid Linemen or thrower with the argument, both aren't needed. Some use Goblins as Catcher. Dunno ... when I see Piran's team; they are so fragile.

I guess I have to fool around with them even more in the Single Player-Campaign. ^^
...i think it would stupid -not to take- atleast one thrower. Personally id have two, but if i had excess players, i might consider keeping only one on the pitch. But so far ive had both of them on the pitch always when i have them. Av8 isnt too shabby, sure hands is golden and if you give them accuracy as 2nd skill for example, they actually can pass reasonably well. Orc rerolls are cheap so surely youll have plenty just in case someone needs to catch as well ;)

well 4/6 odds arent that bad for catching with ag3. 1/6 and 1/36 arent supposed to be too likely, yet i hit those all the time, so certainly 4/6 must be akin to 100% on the pitch...

Also i see the gobbos as mere funfactor. If they were cheaper i might actually consider them...but 40k stunty vs 50k for the best punching bag in game? thats not even a question to me :)
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chaos_panda: I read a few articles at bbtactics. A lot of Orc-Player seem to avoid Linemen or thrower with the argument, both aren't needed. Some use Goblins as Catcher. Dunno ... when I see Piran's team; they are so fragile.

I guess I have to fool around with them even more in the Single Player-Campaign. ^^
I have played orcs in the board game and that argument don't make much sense to me. Having a thrower allows you to have another blitzer on the front lines, allowing you a total of 8 str based players. In fact, your starting team is the best in my opinion.
The troll can't help that much against the roller, but I agree with the argument of feeding the roller linemen and press the dwarves, so he has to make a quick score.
The main problem I think is that fighting a strength-based team like dwarves with orcs, another strentgh based team with a big gasp in tv is very difficult. You need specific inducements and a lot of luck.
I advice you to try a few matches in auld, the computer iA is so bad it wouldn't help you much.
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chaos_panda: I read a few articles at bbtactics. A lot of Orc-Player seem to avoid Linemen or thrower with the argument, both aren't needed. Some use Goblins as Catcher. Dunno ... when I see Piran's team; they are so fragile.

I guess I have to fool around with them even more in the Single Player-Campaign. ^^
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mefet: I have played orcs in the board game and that argument don't make much sense to me. Having a thrower allows you to have another blitzer on the front lines, allowing you a total of 8 str based players. In fact, your starting team is the best in my opinion.
The troll can't help that much against the roller, but I agree with the argument of feeding the roller linemen and press the dwarves, so he has to make a quick score.
The main problem I think is that fighting a strength-based team like dwarves with orcs, another strentgh based team with a big gasp in tv is very difficult. You need specific inducements and a lot of luck.
I advice you to try a few matches in auld, the computer iA is so bad it wouldn't help you much.
orcs start rolling the second black orcs get block and -any- player gets bit guard, preferably BO's - but one or two blitzers would do just fine as well.

Thats the big strength of orcs, besides the av9 and usual ST4 niceties - they have far quicker access to guard than any other team except dwarfs (they come with block). My understanding is that while dwarfs arent exactly weak at any TV lvl, orcs get relatively stronger as TV rise thanks to higher base stats (all - ST, MV and AG).

This is pretty much the same with chaos, except chaos progress is slower than orc (less skills, lower av - but otherwise better stats + mutation access).
Do you play your orc-team with or without the troll?

I mean, with the troll there is one less reliable player on the field for "just" 2+ST. Not to mansion the TV.
Post edited November 18, 2013 by chaos_panda
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chaos_panda: Do you play your orc-team with or without the troll?

I mean, with the troll there is one less reliable player on the field for "just" 2+ST. Not to mansion the TV.
av9 regenerating MB player with strength access? yes please. Never enough ST, MB nor guard. I think the troll is also the cheapest of all big guys - youll be facing lots of big guys and its nice to have one that can take a beating at and from them.

All the attention he gets from the opponent is always away from your more reliable players -who do not have reg-.

Anyways, what would be the alternative? Lino? goblin? :)
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chaos_panda: Do you play your orc-team with or without the troll?

I mean, with the troll there is one less reliable player on the field for "just" 2+ST.
I played with the troll, but used some of a weird tactic with him, or perhaps not so weird. I used the troll to entangle other players, and to attract pressure from the bashers of the other team, so the blitzers can move around protecting the thrower, for example. In the offence, I always use him last, never using rerolls with him and not using him also if he already has two players with block "trapped" unless their combined strength can put him down.
Anyways you have to be patient during the match with orcs. A lot of times it seems that you're going to lose, but their high AV and superb stats make them one of the teams that better face the ending of the matchs. I have won more than one match scoring two TDs in the second half after mercilessly reducing most of the opposing team to ko'ds and injuries.
I always also buy a goblin as soon as possible. Scoring a one turn TD is incredibly difficult but you always have the chance to do it.
If now you can't buy the troll because of his high cost, you cand evelop the team as Ippo says. Orcs are incredibly realiable even without block, as you can deploy 4 str 4 players and 4 blitzers, all of them with normal access to team rerolls. Use your black orcs to entangle str 3 blockers, and remember that if you have a rr, trying a dodge with a blitzer for recovering the ball or dodging the opposition is a move that most players don't expect but that has more chances that it looks like.
Besides a Troll in an orc team with might blow and pilling on is a killing machine, as most players can afford the luxury of using enough player to foul him when he is in the floor.
Post edited November 18, 2013 by mefet
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mefet: I played with the troll, but used some of a weird tactic with him, or perhaps not so weird. I used the troll to entangle other players, and to attract pressure from the bashers of the other team, so the blitzers can move around protecting the thrower,
That's not weird, that's smart. You don't need to bash nearly as much with your big guy on a team where EVERYONE is bash heavy, so it gives the troll some unique utility that isn't seen as much for big guys on other teams.

I'd like to point out he has Really Stupid as well, which is the easiest 'big guy' negative skill to counter, Since he will typically be on the line next to your black orcs anyways, he'll usually have a +2 to his stupid roll, meaning you'd only need a 1 to trigger it. If you watch how I play with a beast, you'd realize I very rarely ever touch him if he's standing out in the middle of nowhere with no support. You could very easily do the same with the troll.
I have to admit, I never saw that option. Can't even say why. :/

Still lot to learn. :)

I think I even made that "use him even when he stands alone"-mistake also with the Ogre of my human team. :(
Post edited November 18, 2013 by chaos_panda
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chaos_panda: I have to admit, I never saw that option. Can't even say why. :/

Still lot to learn. :)

I think I even made that "use him even when he stands alone"-mistake also with the Ogre of my human team. :(
The Ogre has Bonehead, meaning it's ok to use him when he's alone. He gets no + to his roll when he's near players.
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mefet: I played with the troll, but used some of a weird tactic with him, or perhaps not so weird. I used the troll to entangle other players, and to attract pressure from the bashers of the other team, so the blitzers can move around protecting the thrower,
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rcthedigitalhero: That's not weird, that's smart. You don't need to bash nearly as much with your big guy on a team where EVERYONE is bash heavy, so it gives the troll some unique utility that isn't seen as much for big guys on other teams.

I'd like to point out he has Really Stupid as well, which is the easiest 'big guy' negative skill to counter, Since he will typically be on the line next to your black orcs anyways, he'll usually have a +2 to his stupid roll, meaning you'd only need a 1 to trigger it. If you watch how I play with a beast, you'd realize I very rarely ever touch him if he's standing out in the middle of nowhere with no support. You could very easily do the same with the troll.
actually bonehead is "best" in the sense that its always 1/6 - but i actually like wild animal more as it leaves the tackle zones intact.

Anyways, i see troll mostly as support (guard, standfirm, breaktackle not to get tied at wrong time) - piling on while useful, has the disadvantage that you need to roll to get up, otherwise youre stuck lying on ground. Fouling wise its not so bad thanks to av9 + regen...but i rather like to have the st5 guard to stand around be ready to get to somewhere else, instead of being stuck on ground.

Multiblock troll aint half bad after you got more guard on the team.
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iippo: actually bonehead is "best" in the sense that its always 1/6 - but i actually like wild animal more as it leaves the tackle zones intact.
Note that I said "easiest to counter" and not "best".