"What kind of sicko, I say what kind of sicko has no gun?"

I'm still here, but I don't feel like there's much I can add at this point.

I'm a tiny tiny bit apprehensive at the way both nmillar and Vitek seem eager to move on.
It seems astronomically unlikely that they are mafia, but if they were I can see how they'd rather lynch one of me/Joe/dedo so they can seize victory rather than risk getting caught out after another round of night actions. I have to consider these things, it's just the way my brain works.
Of course this seems even less likely to me given Joe and dedo's claims.

Not sure where you got this from? I suggested a no lynch as a potential way forward, but I've not really pushed for it? Vitek does seem quite keen to move on, but isn't he always like that?

You're right, it's Vitek that's eager to move on. From you it's more the confidence you have that that Joe and dedo are scum.

Statements like this:

While you claim to support no-lynch as a good idea, it feel a bit like you're sowing the seeds in order to later go "Oh, it's so obvious the mafia are Joe and dedo, let's just lynch one" to which I'll go "Yeah ok" and then you'll go "Mbwahahaha, Vitek and I won!".
As I said, I regard it as stupidly unlikely, but it's there lurking in the back of my brain.

Well, unless you want to.prove me wrong by claiming scum yourself, then if we are to lynch, Joe or dedo would be my preference over you.

Also perfectly happy with a no lynch to gather further information at night to make a more informed decision. In fact, I can't see anything but a town victory with that approach barring a huge amount of misfortune.

Haha, it's not that I think you're wrong. It's that it seems too good to be true... Just my brain being stupid probably.

Well, who am I to argue such a statement?

I think the only evidence that I can offer is the fact that I crumbed my role and my investigation result before Vitek claimed. Vitek then confirmed my investigation claim as correct, and ZFR verified Vitek as town.

It was mentioned that it was possible for a backup gunsmith to exist without a gunsmith, bit as I crumbed before Vitek's claim, and in a far from vague manner, I think that should put that particular element of doubt to rest?

Well Vitek is not verified as town, he's verified as not bulletproof mafia. Either both of you are mafia or neither of you are. Your mutual corroboration with Vitek doesn't mean much if you're both mafia, you could have decided on your claims in the night.
Ah, if only you'd breadcrumbed before toDay.

Going with the sensible assumption that you're both town, let's run through some no-lunch scenarios:

Joe will almost certainly rokebkock you or bjgamer under the guise of protecting you against the NK.
dedo will most likely try and kill the other one of you.
There's a chance I might protect the right one of you, if that happens then we're pretty safe.
If Joe blocks me then one of you or bjgamer will definitely get a result so I can't imagine he'd do that.

Do we know when the day is scheduled to end?

Thanks Joe and dedo for your thoughts.

To try to solve some doubts we went over a list, and the wife confirmed many technical things with our host. (She said she kept expecting him to shoot her himself.) I have her notes ...

nmillar is our only cop role. If Joe, dedo or Catte had claimed an investigative role then maybe ... but it is very unlikely for us to be the only investigative role for town and a somewhat limited one at that. PGO, Desperado and backup gunsmith would give 'guilty' on townies to balance and misdirect. Cleared.

Vitek - cannot be mafia, confirmed with mod even a mafia reflector would die from a Desperado shot. Bulletproof would save but does not reflect the shot. Cannot be SK, nmillar saw a gun and SK's do not have guns. Cleared of being possible mafia or SK unless there is a very unusual twist.

Pookina was a roleblocker, yet nobody claimed being blocked - thus Pookina must have blocked either ZFR or Vitek, who would receive no pms due to their roles.

Catte should be cleared of the NK, unless as he says that mafia could both NK and do a role concurrently, but this seems unusual. One of Joe or dedo should be the killer.

It does seem that Joe's claimed role and our own is cautioned against being put together on town's side in smaller games, but Joe would be the easiest for nmillar to clear.


Before we decide, she says there is also a trap in no-lunch. We don't want to give mafia ideas but it is very likely they have already thought of it. If mafia have a roleblocker and a strongman, then one investigative role will be blocked and the other killed for no results to town. Bodyguard would have a gun, so no definitive results for nmillar. If mafia have a mafia doctor, no gun will be indicated, so either Joe or Catte could show no gun. It is down to old fashioned sleuthing and scum hunting with a 50/50 chance.

Pre-post edit - It looks like Catte has seen some of what this talks about. If there is a Strongman, none of the protections will work. Mafia is likely to go for the active investigative roles unless Joe truly is a jailer and manages to pick the Strongman.

First, that's excellent news and pretty much clears up my doubts about Vitek and by extension my doubts about nmillar. I would be fine with lynching Joe or dedo now. They must both be mafia through PoE, but Joe's claim is worse.

____


Yup, even without a strongman there's a chance that I protect the wrong person. I was leaning towards no lunch partially because of my niggling doubts about Vitek and nmillar, but now they're cleared up obviously the safest course of action from my PoV is to simply lynch one of the people I know must be mafia.

That's an interesting point that I hadn't thought of, and contradicts what Joe was implying in regards to getting a "no gun" result if Gym had been investigated. So perhaps Joe was the one "being dumb" rather than me? ;)

Taking this into account, dedo's claim seems to be the most unlikely of the three, so it's a 50 / 50 between Catte and Joe.

Not sure a mafia doctor makes sense as we have no town roles that this would counteract, so Joe's role makes more sense to be mafia aligned as it can block our investigative roles.

I have no idea how a mafia doctor might work with the PGO. Desperado is mostly a day role, isn't it? Our situation now is likely what the Desperado role was meant for.

Since Catte was seen with Tweety, he is cleared of the NK barring being able to do both. Back on D1 as GH was self-destructing, Catte was also very involved with following up on the convoluted reasoning while both Joe and dedo faded back. ZFR voted first, Catte followed, dedo was third or fourth as Vitek voted then unvoted to think. Joe stayed on nmillar the whole time. More experienced players can probably analyze that better than we can.

A thought here, please test me out on this one I am weary and still on meds:

The killer is Joe or dedo most likely. Joe claimed visiting Vitek while thinking we had him confirmed somehow. Would he have risked a lie to where he was at that time? He also claims jailer, it would not be unusual for him to be a roleblocker if mafia.

Dedo claims bodyguard, a good role to confuse the gunsmith, and nobody can account for him during NK. Is it more likely for dedo to be the killer and possibly Strongman? If so, eliminating him would give the town protector a better chance at protecting, or at least at one investigative role a shot at a result.

I am going to lie down for a bit. Let's also hear Vitek's views before we decide anything.